[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
He understands next to zilch when it comes to evolution though. [/quote]
I heartily disagree. Heartily.[/quote]
You would, because you know zilch either.
I dont mean this as any kind of putdown either, you just dont.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
(I doubt our resident Anschlusser gets that one ^)[/quote]
Et ta soeur?
No one looked at the Youtube vid I posted of a priest denouncing a catholic church riddled with homosexual perverts. There are more.
Why would anyone support these churches?
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
No one looked at the Youtube vid I posted of a priest denouncing a catholic church riddled with homosexual perverts. There are more.
Why would anyone support these churches?[/quote]Um… this is the Bill Nye thread bub. Ya alright? Mouse got a mind of it’s own? Jesus can fix you ya know. ONLY Jesus.
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
Even out of body experiences can and have been recreated in laboratory settings. If that’s not enough to convince one of the fallibility of sensory experiences, I don’t know what is. [/quote]
Word.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]OldManJoe wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]OldManJoe wrote:
Tribulus, begin your answer like this please so I can understand:
“We know those laws are from God because…”[/quote]I know those laws are from God because they are contained in a collection of writings that when believed by me, a thing I did NOT see comin, transformed me from the inside out.
[/quote]
You’re using the God of the Gaps argument just like that other numb nuts.
You’re saying because your life improved upon believing in god, that means god is real? Ok well there’s your issue Tribulus, because that does not mean God is real. People have experiences all the time that can’t be explained. You don’t have to appeal to imaginary friends to be confident and happy Trib, quit being a pussy.
[/quote]
Don’t associate Tirib with the rest of us. You are more like him than we are. [/quote]
What does that mean? “You are more like him than we are”[/quote]
You both take scripture out of context and literally to suit your own purposes and you both claim that God is a mean prejudging jerk that has already decided your fate to the exclusion of your own will. And you both refuse to take in to account simple reason and logic as a part and parcel to the whole experience and refuse to accept contrary evidence and/ or logic simply to preserve your own bias and ego. More than anything it’s an issue of ego. You both believe what you want, not what is real.
That’s what I mean. It’s not complicated.
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Nice Dr. Matt… Long time no speak, been doing ok?[/quote]
Indeed I am, I was planning on catching up on our e-mails in the next day or two now that I have some free time.[/quote]
I look forward to it. I do wish to pick your brain some more. As an aside, I found a 2007 GT 500 that I am seriously considering providing life circumstances workout in my favor which hasn’t been the case for sometime, but there is always hope…
[quote]ephrem wrote:
You know, I don’t disagree with you here; this whole existence could be an illusion. Where we part ways is at how likely it is that existence might be an illusion. If it’s a 50/50 chance then I’d have to admit what you’re saying is correct, but I don’t believe that.
[/quote]
It doesn’t matter what you believe, it only matters what you can prove and you’ve proven to me that you put more stock in faith than I ever have. The difference is that I put my faith in something greater than myself, you put your faith in yourself and you just really, really hope you’re right. Our discussion here though has demonstrated that you truly don’t get it. That you are wholly relying on the fact that you senses are 100% accurate and you’re not bat shit crazy and you can prove neither.
Well demonstrate this certainty. Can you demonstrate this without me having just to trust the fact that you are not bullshiting me? ‘Just trust me’ doesn’t work here.
I have. You just disagree with a clear, deductive argument that is solid in any realm or reality. It requires no knowledge of the world or around you to be true. It doesn’t require you at all. The fact that you cannot see things for what they are is your fault not mine. I have done my homework. You cannot prove the argument wrong, you cannot find any holes, you just hope by some chance you are right and it’s wrong by some miracle.
You’re looking for God to come down and shake your hand and introduce himself when there it so much more to it that you refuse to look into for yourself.
If you are not willing to put in the work, don’t expect results. A math problem will not solve itself nor will this problem. And that’s what it is, a problem with a solution.
How the hell do you know?
Second, there is an ‘amount’ of planets, whether you recognize it or not.
[quote]
Absorb other people’s ideas, parrot theory and even conflate them to suit my own beliefs and worldviews? I could do that, but I’d feel insincere and dishonest. This is how I study, and I’m truely grateful you’re assisting my in my studies…[/quote]
No, you need to learn for yourself what you can know and what you can infer and know what the difference is and why. Nothing that is provable and trust worthy is physical, it just simply isn’t so. So long as you have to rely on the fact that your senses are 100% accurate and you think about it 100% correctly, you will not have a stance that holds any water. Like I said, you rely on faith waaaay more than I do. The irony is me being wrong (and I am not) has no consequence, you being wrong does have consequence. Because when push comes to shove, you cannot prove you have done what is necessary to understand.
[quote]OldManJoe wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]OldManJoe wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]OldManJoe wrote:
If God wanted to deliver his message, why did he only deliver it to very few people using text, and then beyond that make it difficult to understand? Why wouldn’t he make it very clear so that there is no question at all?
[/quote]
This is the whole “Why isn’t God more obvious” argument. I don’t know since I am not God.
[/quote]
Ok but what is your opinion on how ridiculous it is for anyone to accept that an all powerful being capable of creating other beings isn’t capable of coming to earth to talk to us and instead just gives some vague book to a few people? Don’t you think that it’s pretty bad communication for an all powerful God?
[/quote]
He did come to Earth. And he communicated well. He taught us to love God and love our neighbors as ourselves. To do good rather than bad. To live a life of respect and dignity. It’s in the book. It’s a pretty big book to and I would hardly call it vague. Multifaceted, but not vague.
[/quote]
A: You have no way of knowing if your holy book is authentic.
[/quote]
Uh, it’s pretty authentic. I have 4 different copies of it. I can prove the truth contained with in are most definitely true.
Says someone who has never read it or bothered to understand it. How can I trust your assessment of a book that you never read? How does that work anyway? “Hey your book is immoral, I never read it, but I just know”…This is the horse shit you are really trying to sell me? I have read it, I have studied it. I know it and you do not. This is your fault not mine. Don’t waste my time criticizing a book you’ve never read.
Again, you have no experience and I do. You cannot tell me that my experiences are false in anyway. It’s a lack of effort and understanding on your part. It’s really just vitriol and ego. You want to prove something you cannot because, like ephrem, you haven’t to put in the work to understand it for yourself. You are just repeating what you heard other people say, who also did not put in the work to understand it. If you put in the work of a biblical scholar, hell just bother to even read it, then I can take what you say with a hair of seriousness. You simply don’t know what you are talking about, you just hope what other people are telling you are right.
I am telling you, take your points one by one from your favorite atheist scholars and I can destroy them drunk and half blind. Don’t post a million points. Take one you like, I will kill it, than take another and I will destroy that one too. I can do this shit all day and night.
If being religious didn’t work, nobody would do it. There is value. The book is about relating to God, to understand his ways and why they work better than our ways. That if we stay the course we will be alright and the people around us will be benefited from our existence because we give from the heart out of love. And you can communicate with him, it’s call prayer.
[/quote]
The point isn’t whether there is value, because first off any value religion does bring can be obtained without religion, and on Earth religion brings an overall negative effect. It divisive and makes people crazy. It literally is just like a virus actually. The bad outweighs the good. And once again, prayer doesn’t work. If you’ve ever actually prayed with an open mind you would know this lol
[/quote]
Ahteism has led to the greatest mass murders and atrocities in history. The worst religious nut jobs could only look on in awe. This whole atheism utopia has been tried. If it wasn’t so tragic it would be a laughable failure.
You think religion makes people crazy? Atheism has led to greatest atrocities mankind has ever known. If you want to be on that side, go nuts, just don’t kill my family, I will put up a fight
It is your choice. It totally your choice and nobody elses. The typical atheist stance is the requirement of God to “prove” himself to you/ them, without requiring a shred of effort on your own. Even more so , you put up obstacles you require God to hurdle to prove himself to you. It doesn’t work that way. If you want to push him away, you don’t want him around, he’ll let you. The work falls on you. Like all told ephrem, you want to believe with no effort. You want problems to solve themselves. The impetus is on you, if you want to know, really want to know, then do the work. If you want it to just come to you for no reason out of the blue; ain’t gonna happen. Anything worth having requires effort including faith in God. If it didn’t require effort, it wouldn’t be worth anything.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
[quote]OldManJoe wrote:
The same goes for religion for me, until I am presented with sufficient evidence to believe in a higher power, I won’t believe. And I cannot just choose to believe.
The difference is a lot of people don’t really care if their beliefs are true…Or they have believed for so long that their senses are dulled and they aren’t really thinking in terms of “Does this actually make sense?” which I try and always ask about every situation. Unless I’ve had some scotch in me then it gets iffy…
[/quote]
Joe, have you forgotten Doublethink? (1984) In this world, things have to make sense but in magicland, anything goes – the creator of the world gets pissed at his creations, decides to redeem them by being born as his own son from a virgin. Then dies a horrible death while onlookers have a picnic. Then the dead guy comes back to life to prove that magicland exists and that we can go to magicland when we die if we believe all this.
Then, if your mind says this is all nonsense, you turn off your mind and believe it anyway. Becoming a robot is the key to salvation. [/quote]
I know the stupidest person on earth, but your close…Damn close.
[quote]pat wrote:<<< You both take scripture out of context and literally to suit your own purposes and you both claim that God is a mean prejudging jerk that has already decided your fate to the exclusion of your own will. And you both refuse to take in to account simple reason and logic as a part and parcel to the whole experience and refuse to accept contrary evidence and/ or logic simply to preserve your own bias and ego. More than anything it’s an issue of ego. You both believe what you want, not what is real.
That’s what I mean. It’s not complicated.[/quote]Shameful Pat. I already have, at the very least, several dozen very old posts where I desperately, calmly and “charitably” attempted over and over and over and over and over again, a zillion different ways, to explain what I actually believe to you. It was NOT a waste though because other people read what I said. I stand confidently by my handling of scripture here.
[quote]pat wrote:
Ahteism has led to the greatest mass murders and atrocities in history. The worst religious nut jobs could only look on in awe. This whole atheism utopia has been tried. If it wasn’t so tragic it would be a laughable failure.
You think religion makes people crazy? Atheism has led to greatest atrocities mankind has ever known. If you want to be on that side, go nuts, just don’t kill my family, I will put up a fight
[/quote]
Still trying to peddle this old meme I see…
And ol Sparky drops in for a spell. What it is Sparky?
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
And ol Sparky drops in for a spell. What it is Sparky?[/quote]
Busy as shit, actually. Football season is a crazy busy time for me; I’m usually spending what little internet time I have over on my favorite coaches forum.
You?
Insanely busy as well. Redoing a bunch of the computer stuff at my church which has a rather large (by my working standards) building, among other things. I know how thrilled you’ll be about that =] Good to see ya man.
Pat sure seems really narrow-minded to me. Why don’t you quit looking at both sides of the argument and simply push you’re own ignorant opinion instead!!! That seems to work great for all of these atheists…
(c;
This would be very interesting.
A creationist with a PhD in Molecular Genetics from Ohio State versus some muppet who hosts a TV show?? He would get absolutely hammered!!
That would be fabulous indeed.