Banned for Singing God Bless USA

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

What does this have to do with my suggestion that they should read the Declaration of Independence? Well, two snippets at least.

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation…

…And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor. [/quote]

What did your suggestion that they read the Declaration of Independence have to do with this thread? This discussion is about a 1st amendment issue, not a Declaration of Independence issue. No one argued that the Declaration did not mention God or that the vast majority of the Founding Fathers were devout Christians, but they were also wise enough to not make the US a Christian nation even though I doubt many would have complained since the vast majority of the population was Christian.
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If you can’t make the connection between a ban on singing God Bless the USA, and my suggestion that they then recite text from the Declaration, which basically says the same, I can’t help you. [/quote]

Are you seriously saying that reciting the Declaration of Independence is the same as singing a popular country song? I would object to a kindergarten class reciting the Declaration of Independence simply because they would not learn anything useful from it. Reading the Declaration of Independence in its entirety should wait until around middle school when they can actually understand what they are reading. The Declaration of Independence is a major part of American history and should be learned in the context of American history, just like the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the Protestant Revolution should be taught in the context of history. Now, if a teacher were to have the students read the Declaration of Independence and use the fact that it mentions God to try and convince students to become Christians or to say that the US is a Christian nation would be wrong. Singing songs that feature religious ideals and/or morals with references to a monotheistic God does not serve any purpose and can easily be seen as promoting a form of religion in public schools, which is wrong. Learning the Declaration of Independence does serve a useful purpose. Whatever the purpose of this recital, a song could have easily been selected that has no mention of any form of religion.

22

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
Are you seriously saying that reciting the Declaration of Independence is the same as singing a popular country song? I would object to a kindergarten class reciting the Declaration of Independence simply because they would not learn anything useful from it.[/quote]

It’s an activity for their graduation from kindergarten, not a classroom lesson. Who care about your objections? Maybe you’d suggest the ABC song or something. Would you BAN it’s recital, or not? THAT is the question. It carries the EXACT same message.

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Note, once again, this is not a classroom moment. It was supposed to be a little activity at their graduation, using a populatr patriotic song. As evidence, a Justin Bieber song will be performed instead…Argue this for what it is, a non-learning moment. Would you BAN the Declaration recital, which carries the exact same message, regardless or their ability to learn anything from it (since they’re not expected to) or not?

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[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
Are you seriously saying that reciting the Declaration of Independence is the same as singing a popular country song? I would object to a kindergarten class reciting the Declaration of Independence simply because they would not learn anything useful from it.[/quote]

It’s an activity for their graduation from kindergarten, not a classroom lesson. Who care about your objections? Maybe you’d suggest the ABC song or something. Would you BAN it’s recital, or not? THAT is the question. It carries the EXACT same message.

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Then it is a school sponsored activity and should not in any way promote any form of religion, which that song does, it is that simple. Moreover, since it is a school activity it should have some relevance to the curriculum which the ABC song would cover, or even demonstrating some basic math skills or a short historical play of some kind. Singing a random country song accomplishes nothing.

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[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
Are you seriously saying that reciting the Declaration of Independence is the same as singing a popular country song? I would object to a kindergarten class reciting the Declaration of Independence simply because they would not learn anything useful from it.[/quote]

It’s an activity for their graduation from kindergarten, not a classroom lesson. Who care about your objections? Maybe you’d suggest the ABC song or something. Would you BAN it’s recital, or not? THAT is the question. It carries the EXACT same message.

[/quote]

Then it is a school sponsored activity and should not in any way promote any form of religion, which that song does, it is that simple. Moreover, since it is a school activity it should have some relevance to the curriculum which the ABC song would cover, or even demonstrating some basic math skills or a short historical play of some kind. Singing a random country song accomplishes nothing.
[/quote]

Should they ban recitals of Justin Bieber songs? It isn’t supposed to ‘accomplish’ anything, but the singing of a song. Or, in the case of my question, the recital of a text.

26

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

Then it is a school sponsored activity and should not in any way promote any form of religion, which that song does, it is that simple.
[/quote]

That song no more or no less promotes religion than the Declaration, which you would have to BAN.

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In fact, you’d have to BAN the Declaration recital more-so than the song. The Declaration actually transmits a specific relationship between man and God (what man is entitled to), AND mentions the reliance on God’s blessing (reliance on Divine Providence).

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation

28

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Note, once again, this is not a classroom moment. It was supposed to be a little activity at their graduation, using a populatr patriotic song. As evidence, a Justin Bieber song will be performed instead…Argue this for what it is, a non-learning moment. Would you BAN the Declaration recital, which carries the exact same message, regardless or their ability to learn anything from it (since they’re not expected to) or not? [/quote]

Yes, or no, would you BAN the recital of the Declaration? And no, this isn’t a teaching moment, so drop that line already.

29

Oooh, or how about this little conundrum…Have them recite this from MLK’s speech.

[i]I have a dream today!

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, and every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight; "and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together."2

This is our hope, and this is the faith that I go back to the South with.

With this faith, we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith, we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith, we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.

And this will be the day – this will be the day when all of God’s children will be able to sing with new meaning:

My country 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing.

Land where my fathers died, land of the Pilgrim's pride,

From every mountainside, let freedom ring!

And if America is to be a great nation, this must become true.

And so let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire.

Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York.

Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania.

Let freedom ring from the snow-capped Rockies of Colorado.

Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California.

But not only that:

Let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia.

Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee.

Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill of Mississippi.

From every mountainside, let freedom ring.

And when this happens, when we allow freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God’s children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual:[/i]

God is clearly mentioned. Assumed. Ban I Have a Dream? Ban MLK? What the hell do we do now?! Conflict in program. Conflict! Does not compute!

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[quote]Sloth wrote:
Note, once again, this is not a classroom moment. It was supposed to be a little activity at their graduation, using a populatr patriotic song. As evidence, a Justin Bieber song will be performed instead…Argue this for what it is, a non-learning moment. Would you BAN the Declaration recital, which carries the exact same message, regardless or their ability to learn anything from it (since they’re not expected to) or not? [/quote]

Personally I’d rather have the song in question played than Justin Bieber. I think the problem is lack of patriotic songs that don’t mention God.

God bless the USA will just have to do for now. We sang that one all the time in school along with the pledge of allegiance in full and I turned out just fine.

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[quote]Sloth wrote:
Should they ban recitals of Justin Bieber songs?[/quote]

Singing songs by a teenage lesbian is immoral.

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This seems more like an issue related to poor planning and overreacting PC behavior than an assault on America. When I was waiting in reception battalion (the holding area at Ft. Benning before you go downrange to start basic) they had us sing “God Bless the USA” every night, in our case it was meant to reinforce our commitment, (in between push-ups and side straddle hops) so my memory of that song comes with a lot of extra baggage anyway, I’d be happy to never hear it again.

I understand that the song mentions God and blessing, I understand that we have a duty to be mindful of the different religious beliefs and non-beliefs of students and families, but sometimes I think we confuse a little patriotism with indoctrination (and vice-versa). In reality this all could have been avoided if the principal never let the kids practice the song in the first place. And of course, Justin Bieber, seriously?

33

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

Why is this disgraceful? It is not the job of public schools to favor any religion, or to hold any moral system above any other. If parents want to teach their kids about religion, that is their business and right but there are a lot of parents in this country that do not want public schools to expose their kids to any religious or moral beliefs that are contradictory to their own, which is why such things are and should be left at home or in private schools. If the kids want to sing a patriotic song, there are plenty that do not involve any religion at all. [/quote]

Total bullshit. Telling a kid to not do drugs is favoring a particular moral system. Making kids go to school in the first place is favoring a moral system. Teaching a kid to be active eat healthy and live a healthy life is favoring a moral system.

Hell, even preventing the kids from singing the song they wanted to is favoring a particular (and asinine) moral system, not to mention incredibly intolerant.

If you took all “favoring” out of education you’d be left with nothing. You’d end up teaching kids that the Nazis starved tortured and murdered 6 million jews, but not that it was bad. Hitler was just different and different is okay.

The PC struggle against discrimination (read discernment) is in truth a fight against logic and reason.

Schools should teach kids murder and lying and cheating are bad. Integrity, honesty, and hard work are good. Being against “favoritism” of moral systems is equivalent to being against education in general.

34

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

Why is this disgraceful? It is not the job of public schools to favor any religion, or to hold any moral system above any other. If parents want to teach their kids about religion, that is their business and right but there are a lot of parents in this country that do not want public schools to expose their kids to any religious or moral beliefs that are contradictory to their own, which is why such things are and should be left at home or in private schools. If the kids want to sing a patriotic song, there are plenty that do not involve any religion at all. [/quote]

Total bullshit. Telling a kid to not do drugs is favoring a particular moral system. Making kids go to school in the first place is favoring a moral system. Teaching a kid to be active eat healthy and live a healthy life is favoring a moral system.

Hell, even preventing the kids from singing the song they wanted to is favoring a particular (and asinine) moral system, not to mention incredibly intolerant.

If you took all “favoring” out of education you’d be left with nothing. You’d end up teaching kids that the Nazis starved tortured and murdered 6 million jews, but not that it was bad. Hitler was just different and different is okay.

The PC struggle against discrimination (read discernment) is in truth a fight against logic and reason.

Schools should teach kids murder and lying and cheating are bad. Integrity, honesty, and hard work are good. Being against “favoritism” of moral systems is equivalent to being against education in general.
[/quote]

Well said DD.

35

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:
I don’t get it, saying the word God doesn’t favor one religion only one language. The word “allah” simply means god and other languages call their gods by their own names but god is still an acceptable translation. Mentioning the word God in a song isn’t religious indoctrination any more than “one nation under god” in our pledge. Sounds like more PC pansy ass garbage to me.[/quote]

Let’s pretend that the song isn’t referring to the Christian god, which I highly doubt, the word God is inherently referring to a monotheistic religious entity and as I said there are many people in this country that do not want their kids exposed to such things, whether because they are not religious or are polytheistic or just do not want religion involved in any way with public schools and it is not the job of the public school system to expose kids to such things. [/quote]

The problem here is really there is no neutral ground. Either, you’re teaching kids one thing, or another. Which ever side you choose, the other side will be offended.
The question of God, truly does loom large over many things. You simply cannot erase it.

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God is not a christian term…every culture and most folks have their own opinion what “god” means.

Serious PC gone totally amok.

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Now he is caving to pressure that the bieber replacement song is offensive and shouldn’t be allowed (which is by and large much less appropriate to begin with). This is exactly what I was talking about. Making the song not offend anyone is equivalent to not letting the kids sing at all.

38

Mamby pamby PC crap like this is part of the downfall of our nation. Its a goddamn song (and I even think the song is kinda lame, had the same Army experience with it as Brian) and kids are really indoctrinated by the shows they watch on Saturday morning and in the evenings if you want to get nit picky about it. I played the wind in kindergarten and we sang some song, guess what?

Couldn’t tell ya for the life of me what that song was and at the time sure as hell couldnt give you a point by point analysis of the subtext, I was too busy being a kid. The PARENTS are the ones getting worked up, the kids dont give a shit one way or the other about the lyrics.

39

I sang the Canadian national anthem every school day from k-12. The anthem makes reference to god several times.

This didn’t bother me and if I had kids it wouldn’t bother me if they were to sing the national anthem either.

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Oops I meant the line was: God keep our land glorious and free!

brain fart