Am hoping with my lower dose of 90 mg a week divided in 2 injections gives me same e2 as yours. Though I think near 20 makes me feel really great. My shbg is about 27.
Funny you mention lowering your dose. I don’t intend to change my protocol right now, but if I do I would like to lower it too.
My thinking is if I’m at 600 during a trough I must be 900-1,000(?) at my peak. This is probably causing a bit too much DHT, which is causing my slightly oily forehead. I assume if I lower the dose DHT will drop, and probably E2 a bit too. I don’t need, or want, to feel like I’m 18 again…just not 68 for a few more years :).
I really don’t think we peak that high injecting 2x a week. See if steroidcalc Helps. Doesn’t tell you the testosterone levels but if u put 100 mg 1 a week peaks higher.
It’s possible that the acne will decrease after you stabilize at your current protocol. It did for me. I learned when I change my protocol I get acne then it mostly goes away.
Cheers.
Your zeroed, don’t mess with anything.
Oily skin is going to happen. Remember when you were a teenager and your hormones were raging. You had acne, and oily skin. Its normal. Address it with some topical acne wipes or something.
Don’t fuck with your e2.
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I haven’t been on the site for a while. The reason being, I feel great.
Part of why I feel so good is I let go of the mental anguish of chasing a million variables. Seriously, I’ve 100% stopped worrying about T, E2, SHBG, IGF-1. I don’t dissect my labs or attempt to self diagnose and micro manage every aspect of the treatment. Very similar to a beginner hitting the weights. After a while you realize the only thing that matters is consistently making it to the gym and eating well. Worrying about which Chucks to wear and which program to follow every 48 hours is a wastes of time. It’s taken me almost 2 years to learn these lessons.
Guys, just my personal experience but if you’re carrying around anxiety regarding your treatment like I did, please give yourself some grace and let it go for a bit. I made myself feel worse, and you may be doing the same thing. Don’t sabotage yourself like I almost did.
Enjoy the forum. Read, learn, contribute, but remember to also listen to your doctor. This forum is an amazing tool to equip you with the knowledge you need to have meaningful conversations with your doc. Finally, the more patient you allow yourself to be, the better. There is no reason you need to start dissolving AI in vodka on day 1. Maybe day 101, probably never, but give yourself some time, and take things step be step. You can’t push the river.
I hope everyone out there who’s struggling can find some hope. Don’t give up. Try to not get bogged down in the details. Educate yourself, work with your doc, be patient, and good things will come.
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This is a golden post. Nice work brother.
Fantastic point, agree 100%. I found the same piece of mind when I stopped over analyzing everything which allowed my protocol to settle down and eventually become highly effective.
Thanks to @physioLojik there’s been a lot of great conversation around E2 and AIs lately. If you and your doctor decide to incorporate an AI to control E2, please make sure you receive the correct lab. To help you understand why, during my last labs I tested E2 using both the Roche ECLIA methodology (wrong test) and Estradiol Sensitive LC/MS/MS (right test).
The Roche methodology suggests an AI may be needed. Most guys would see those results and demand their Dr. prescribe an AI. And, most guys would tank so hard they’d be crazy sick. Heck, in my case had I taken the old recommended 1mg a week I could’ve zeroed myself out per the Sensitive test, and been in really bad shape.
Here’s an even more important point that @physioLojik and many others here stress. Assess your treatment plan by assessing how you FEEL. Labs are necessary, but at the end of the day you gotta ask yourself “How do I feel?” If you’re not sure how you feel, especially if you’re new to TRT, talk with your Dr. They will work with you, and most times have 100’s of hands-on cases they can draw on for context. Don’t allow numbers by themselves to drive your treatment, use them as tools to help move you forward. Truth is both of these tests are inaccurate in a myriad of ways, and I probably fall somewhere in between at any given time. However, I feel freaking amazing so I ain’t changing a damn thing.
Here are my full labs. Feel free to comment on anything you see (IGF-1 continues to be off the charts high).FYI, labs were taken at a through ~4.5 days after previous injection. Still on 100mg, injections every 3.5 days. No AI, and no HCG. Injections are IM in the quad (with subq my t was 581). No negative symptoms…a little bit of an oily forehead. Hope you found this helpful.
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Thought I’d share the correct Labcorp lab to get. Also, note the comment about estrogen levels in men. If you’re interested in fertility you may want to rethink crashing E2 with an AI. Just food for thought.
Hey mannn
amazing posttt:+1:
helped me understand things in an easier way. i m suffering the same you did before almost same lab reports just like you hd before trt clomid…in my case there is no doctor to help.
I was thinking of giving clomid a try but have one question in mind.
why not give clomid a life long try? i guess you said you lost good amount of bodyfat and made strength gains on clomid…why go for injections?
I’m a fan of Clomid and coming off wasn’t a simple decision. Clomid is soooo much more convenient than injections, stimulates natural T production, protects fertility, and fires up the entire HPTA. The HPTA benefits are rarely, if ever, talked about as everyone is focused on T. The truth is the HPTA impacts millions of physiological functions. When the HPTA is firing on all cylinders the benefits are huge.
I started Clomid to attempt a natural restart. I’m 36, started losing weight, doing a lot of right things so there was hope my body would respond. When I started my T level was 120, Clomid helped my get into the 600-700’s. Considering that’s ~450% increase I can confidently say Clomid successfully helped restore my body’s natural functions. However, after stopping to test the restart my T levels dropped.
Through conversations with my wife and Dr., we collectively decided injections would be the best action going forward. My body simply needs the additional support to function well. We did discuss staying on Clomid, however I did have concerns. Primarily Clomid is a pharmaceutical drug with very few long term studies supporting it’s use in men. There are plenty of guys who have been on it for years, but again very few empirical studies looking at upside/downside risk. Also, it’s considered an “off label” treatment and my insurance wouldn’t cover the prescription.
I think attempting a Clomid restart (or something similar) for guys under 40-45 is a good move before jumping straight to T. That in combination with lowering body fat and increasing lean mass eliminate so much guess work, which is important considering TRT is a lifelong treatment. There is very little downside to trying. If you experience negative sides you can simply stop and pursue other treatment options.
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Update.
I feel absolutely amazing. Over the past few weeks muscle tone has improved from a simple 30 minute pull up, dip, push up, and body weight squats routine. Energy is great, I’m getting every possible positive benefit. But I’ve now run into a major issue. Sex drive.
My sex drive is through the roof. At first it was fun, my wife and I were having having sex multiple times a day, at least once per day, it’s been amazing and like we are 25 again. However it’s now become a problem as she needs a break and can’t handle my desire. The last few days she’s avoided me completely because I turn into an animal if she even comes close. This may sound like a good problem to have, but its really not fair to her.
Other things are changing too. My body is noticeably changing from a simple 30 minute pull up, dip, push up, body weight squat routine. I lifted yesterday and not only feel stronger, but had way more energy and never got exhausted like I usually do. I went back and looked at my labs and realized I was 900+ at a 5/6 day through. Seems high. Checked my prescription and bingo. I had thought my prescription was 100mg a week. It’s actually 200mg a week. I never thought about it cause I’ve felt so great but now realize I’m probably well over normal range during my normal week.
Gonna chat with Doc and get her opinion. Ideally I’d be on the high side of normal, not well over it. Because I feel so good I’m hesitant to make a change, but for my wife’s sake I think I’ll look into lowering my dose. I’ll check back in with any updates.
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This happened to me too. I was doing 34mg EOD and went up to 40mg EOD and once I hit steady state there, it was sometimes uncontrollable, not quite to your extent, but I felt like a wild animal at times. I would get aroused/stiff while I was looking at a picture of her or sitting on the couch next to her and catching a whiff of her smell, or whatever.
I lowered my dose back to 34mg eod, then sometimes to 30mg eod and occasionally, I’ll go back up to 40mg eod since I feel amazing up there…but, for my wife’s sake, I don’t stay there long.
I’d lower the dose in small increments and give it a few weeks to see how it feels. I think it’s better to be prescribed more test than you need in case you ever want to vary the dose some or move up from time to time…if doc lowers your script, might be harder to justify getting back up there if you ever needed it.
Your Hematocrit is at 49. How is your blood pressure? Do you donate blood? Mine was at 48 and my blood pressure was slightly elevated and I would get flushed on my chest from the T. Could be my body adapting to T after being missing for so long. BUT my Dr has me donating blood and now the flushing has stopped and blood pressure is lowered.
In my experience when estrogen is elevated blood pressure and heart rate climb, too much estrogen can mess with a lot of other systems, low estrogen drops my Vit D levels and gives me softer stools and indigestion. A couple days ago I took an estrogen blocker and it knocked my estrogen lower and 4 days later blood pressure and heart rate are closer to normal.
A week ago my hematocrit was 49.4%, hemoglobin 16.6 and RBC 5.86. Everything was in range expect estrogen at 43 pg/mL. Now estrogen is lower and so to is blood pressure and heart rates.
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Blood pressure is perfect. I’ve never donated blood. It’s a great idea though…you can literally save a life. I should do it for that fact alone. I’ve never experienced any Hematocrit issues, and hope yours resolves soon.
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Great advice, thanks for the insight. I’m about 4 months into my protocol so solidly running at a high steady state. Based on how I feel, and how my body is changing, I’m pretty sure I can safely lower my dose without losing the upside benefit. I don’t need to feel like I’m 25, just don’t want to feel like I’m 75. I may ride it out for a while, see if things calm down naturally, but will most likely drop to 175 -150mg and reassess.
One negative side effect I had at the higher dose was back acne… It got bad for a while. Even had a back facial, which helped calm it down for a couple of weeks, but it came back.
After lowering the dose, the acne has mostly subsided, but I still get pimples here and there in my back, but not as large and frequent. @azwildcats
Thankfully I haven’t experienced any of that. In the beginning I had an oily forehead, most likely due to DHT, but that seems to have resolved itself. I’m living symptom free. Just have to keep my marriage intact and I’ll be in the clear.
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I opted to hold off lowering my dose but my marriage, more specifically our sex life, has taken a major down turn. My sex drive is insatiable. My wife is actually concerned I may have a separate medical condition as the change happened soooo fast and soooo intense. Her self confidence is starting to crash as she feels she can’t please me anymore. Not good.
Man, I feel incredible. I feel like I’ve found a whole new gear. My body feels good, my mind is fast and focused, and confidence is at an all time high. Apparently too much of a good thing can indeed lead to negative results. My plan is to slowly titrate down until we can find a harmonious balance. I definitely want to keep the upside, but if I need to let it go to keep my wife happy, that’s what I’ll do.
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