After approximately 4-5 weeks on clomid the cons have started to outweigh the pros. I don’t feel terrible, but I feel far from OK and progressively feeling worse little by little. I had labs drawn last week, however I’m frusterated by the process. For whatever reason the nurse practioner didn’t run all the labs my Dr. and I agreed to so this is all I got:
High LH, Estradiol escalating, and only a small bump in T. In my opinion the T lab is useless as it’s total only and FT wasn’t tested. Even though I’m sure the lab mess up was a simple miscommunication, it’s still frustrating to patiently go through this process and end up with incomplete information.
My assumption is the high LH is driving high E2 inside my testes. If that’s the case my understanding is an AI wouldn’t be effective. Also, I believe I understand correctly that constant elevated LH can potentially damage LH pathways leading to more issues down the road. Based on this my instinct is to stop clomid and move to an injection protocol.
My next step is setting up an appointment with my Dr. to discuss. I was optimistic that clomid bumped my natural T, but in my opinion I gave it a fair shot and think it’s time to move on.
I’m scheduling an appointment with my Dr. and any feedback, suggestions for my meeting, questions, comments, concerns would be appreciated. As always, thanks for everyone’s time and I genuinely appreciate the insight shared here.
Im in the same boat as you. Some arimidex at a low dose will get your estradiol down and feeling even better. 33 isnt very high to be honest.
How is your enlarged prostate? Any urination issues such as a weak urine stream or frequent trips to the bathroom?
I just spoke with my Dr.'s medical assistant and they suggested dropping my dose to 12.5mg EOD from 25mg EOD. They believe that will drop my LH which will drop my E2, and supposedly not impact my T levels. I’m willing to give it a shot.
Numerically my E2 isn’t overly high, but symptomatically I believe it’s driving my overall negative feelings. I did request an Arimidex prescription, which she will discuss with the Dr. My gut tells me he’ll want to see how I do on the lower clomid dose before trying an AI. I wouldn’t disagree with the logic if that’s what he comes back with, but I’m confident E2 is the likely culprit. I may also experiment with DIM and potential other natural remedies, but I’ve heard mixed results.
No issues with the prostate, however we haven’t tested it again. Urination is fine, ejaculation is fine, prolactin levels have been stable, crossing my fingers it was a one time flare up due to a poor injection protocol.
Doc is calling in a script for Arimidex. His preference is I drop my clomid dose first and see how I respond for 4-6 weeks. He doesn’t think Arimidex will be very effective on clomid, but is willing to let me try. We’ll see.
I just got off the phone with Walgreens, and a 30 day of 1mg Arimidex tabs is going to run me $186. Is that accurate? My insurance won’t cover it so it’s self pay.
Wow. Just got my prescription for $15! Found a coupon online and saved $170. Coupon was from goodrx, and they have amazing savings on a lot of stuff at what seems like every major pharmacy. I had no idea about this until the pharmacy tech told me about it…can’t believe I was about to pay full price. Hope these coupons can help others out.
When I first met with him I had some negative symptoms most commonly associated with high E2 and others such as weak erections, poor ejaculation, slight pinch during orgasm etc. We did the prostate exam as part of our baseline tests, however everything cleared up when I stopped injections and haven’t had any problems since. I’m sure I’m due for a follow up, but I have no intention of reminding him :).
Yesterday I dropped my clomid dose to 12.5mg from 25mg and had a very unexpected response…multiple huge erections throughout the night and solid morning wood like I haven’t had in a long time.
I can only attribute the response to adjusting the meds as everything else stayed constant. Maybe the adjustment to the clomid half life adjusted just enough to naturally lower to get my LH and E2 too a good place? Maybe I’m more of an 18mg clomid guy?
Crap! I got home yesterday and found my wife bought a new thermometer. Apparently our other one was not working properly…reading HIGH. Crap! To make sure the new thermometer was working properly I tested my wife and 4 kids, all came back in the 98* range.
Here are my results so far today. Crap!
Crap! I’m going to test for the next few days, but I believe I’m headed for a hypothyroid diagnosis.
For what it’s worth, we use Norton’s Iodized salt, put an extra helping on my eggs this morning, and I take a daily multivitamin with 150mcg of Iodine, and 200mcg of Selenium…plus everything else under the sun.
Hypothalamus and Pituitary have responded to clomid so I guess process of elimination points to the Thyroid…
It’s been just over 2 weeks since I adjusted my clomid dose from 25mg to 12.5mg EOD. While I got a prescription for Arimidex I haven’t used it as I wanted to see if lowering the dose would relieve some of my negative E2 symptoms.
Happy to report I’m feeling better. Lowering the dose seems to have eliminated the E2 issues I was dealing with. I have lab orders which I’ll try to get done next week, but if I had to guess I’d say my E2 is around 30ish, which for me feels significantly better than 40. Also, I’d guess my T is on the low side of normal, maybe 350-450.
While I feel better than before my plan is to move to injections after getting my labs. I want to live with a bit more T, and now that I have an AI script know that I’ll be able to follow a proper protocol like the one KSman recommends. It’s been almost 9 months of trial and error, but I think I’m finally getting close to having things dialed in.
I met with my endocrinologist regarding my temps. A thyroid panel is included in my next labs, but she want’s me to exhaust all options before considering another med. She was very aware of iodine deficiencies and thought using iodized salt, and daily vitamins is a positive first step.
I also met with a dietician who works with the endo, and she recommended that I eat more often throughout the day. Basically following the 5-6 meal plan that you hear all over the place. I’ve been trying it out, and have gotten my temp as high as 98.2 by mid afternoon. I also came across a cool article about Russel Wilson’s new diet plan on ESPN. His dietician explains metabolism as hot/cold not fast/slow and explains that by eating a TON, your body’s temps increase and allows you to burn a lot of fat etc. Not sure how this will all play out, but between salt, vitamins, and improved diet plan I hope my thyroid will wake up and start working properly. Looking back my body’s been beat to shit for sooo many years, think I just need to take one day at a time, and be grateful the small wins I experience along the way.
Eating frequency directly effects cortisol levels because cortisol is involved in blood sugar regulation. Eating more frequently is less stressful on the body because cortisol helps glucagon support optimal blood sugar levels. So eating more frequently helps regulate blood sugar levels by lowering cortisol and mitigating the stress response. This in turn effects metabolism through blood sugar regulation.
As for hot/cold vs fast/slow - every single chemical reaction in the body is exponentially dependent on temperature. There is only a small window of temperatures where the human body will function correctly due to our biochemistry. If our temperature is too high reaction rates will be too rapid and if our temperature is too low reaction rates will be too slow or may not occur at all. This is why body temperatures are so important because without the optimal body temperatures our biochemistry may be sluggish, off the rails, or possibly not occur at all - and everyone will be effected differently.
That said, eating frequency and a consistent sleep schedule are two of the best lifestyle changes you can make to lower stress. Hormonal problems should always be solved from adrenal → thyroid → sex hormones because adrenals can greatly effect thyroid function and thyroid function can greatly effect sex hormones.
It’s been a while since I’ve updated my post, and thought I’d share a few things including some recent lab results.
Last month I reduced my Clomid dose from 25mg EOD to 12.5mg EOD. Below are the lab results, and yes, these were the only labs run. I know it’s not perfect, but the fact my Dr. is working with me is a huge win for my long term care.
Comparing labs is difficult due to the numerous variables involved. However, comparing these results to my last set performed a month ago on 25mg EOD, I think I’ve gained some positive directional data:
First, cutting the dose in half appears to have been the correct move. Both LH and FSH dropped into normal ranges, and I appear to have experienced an uptick in Total Testosterone.
Second, I need to utilize an AI. If I had to guess based on how I feel I would have said the labs would show my T to be ~300, and E ~25. Knowing what I know now I’m hopeful that properly managing E will allow me to begin reaping the benefits of TRT. I’m starting Arimidex today, and hoping that now my LH has lowered it will have a positive effect in controlling E.
This has been a long journey of eliminating variables through trial and error. I feel I’m one step closer to getting things dialed in, and if the AI doesn’t work due to Clomid, restarting injections is the crystal clear next step. It’s been a long and daunting process, but finally seeing some light in the darkness.
My initial Thyroid labs came back fine, however once getting a properly working thermometer I noticed I had very low body temps. In response I’ve added iodized salt to everything I eat, and also take a daily multivitamen that includes 150mcg of Iodine, and 200mcg of Selenium.
I also met with my Endo to discuss diet and overall metabolism. Since January I’ve been eating at a calorie deficit and as of this morning I’ve lost 36lbs. I’ve made great progress, but my fat loss had been stalled for several weeks, and my Endo indicated that the prolonged dieting has probably turned down my metabolism and body temps.
I’ve continued to use the salt and vitamins, and have changed up my meal plan, and happy to report that my body temps have improved by 1.5* on average. I’ve also seen the fat loss pick back up, which makes me happy.
If anyone is interested I’ll continue to update this thread as I continue to take next steps towards health.
Bingo! Adding two .5mg doses of Arimidex has radically changed how I feel on Clomid. 2-3 days after the first dose boom - erections, libido, stamina, sleep, perspective…all significantly improved. The biggest improvement has definitely been in the sex department. Just thinking of my wife creates a physical response, and my sex drive is back in an exciting and fun way for both of us.
I’m happy I’ve taken my time with TRT, and know I will eventually return to injections, but Clomid for me has been an overall positive experience, and is now better due to the AI. It’s so simple and convenient to take a 1/4 pill EOD, and I’m one of the lucky few who hasn’t experienced the nasty side effects.
My only regret is not following @KSman recommended protocol sooner. Guys, everything we need to know is already in the stickies. You can follow my example and figure out stuff by trial and error, or you can simply read the stickies and get on a proven protocol from the beginning. I suggest you save yourself some pain and reap the rewards of the experienced guys here who have already laid a solid foundation.
One of my biggest learnings so far has been to listen to my body, and not be fixated on lab numbers. Had I continued to focus on labs I would have assumed my E2 was within normal range and not addressed it. I don’t have new labs, but all I can say is I feel much better with an AI than without it, and for the first time in a long time I can feel the benefits of T again…and it feels great!
I just scheduled a routine followup with my Dr. in October. I’m still feeling fine on Clomid + AI. As far as I can tell I have zero negative side effects. Personally, I like the idea of Clomid due to it stimulating my Pituitary and Hypothalamus, which both impact multiple areas of the body beyond just test. However, I’d be willing to consider changing if injections would provide a higher upside compared to Clomid.
With that said is there any drastic benefit transitioning to injections? My Dr. is fine, and willing to do whatever I’m comfortable with which is great. Please let me know what you think, and thanks for your time.
Hi, azwildcats! It’s one of the most informative topics ever. Everyone have to pay attention to that. I’m just saying that we have to listen to our body, evaluate our feelings, not just looking into blood labs…I’d like to thank you for information represented here and for your experience, cus it seems i’m in the same or may be very similar boat. I have thyroid issues (Hashimoto with hypothyroidism), it wasn’t compensated properly, GP thought that about 3.0 TSH is normal cus it is in range, and FT4 FT3 in the lower mid range is normal but HELL NO, it is not normal at all, so when i had my thyroids fixed with thyroxine and selenium supplements i felt a lot better and, i’d like to highlight this moment, consequently sex hormones improved a bit (not as i really want, my T now is about 400-450, but they improved, may be it is a matter of time for our body to work it out, we’ll see). But if it won’t work, i intend to use serm (clomid) + ai just like you did.
How do you think, is there a real reason to start use 25 mg clomid EOD, or it will be better to do it the other way, start from 12,5 EOD and correct the dose according to the feelings and labs in complex?
P.S. maybe it will help someone, but as for me, my feelings, mood, libido, self-confidence, sleep quality improved much better with correction of E2 status, not T, i mean that for me (my personal feelengs) maintaining a E2 in the proper/correct range made much more than just fixing T to the upper range. For example with T about 800 and E2 about 60 i felt my self like a crap and it is said very gently you know, but when my E2 went down to 25-30 and T down to 450 i felt like a champion, no libido issues, no sleep issues, clear mind and more strength in gym, of course may be it is transient, wi’ll see…but i hope this will help someone in understanding what to do in similar cases.
