I agree the aborigials were treated disgustly, ever heard of Port Arthur, or the penal colonies on Tasmainia's West coast, many people have died in Australia's past, as in the majority of the countries in this world.
As a 20 year navy man spending the large amount of that life outside of Australia all i can say to Honki is that either he has not travelled much or else he had his blinkers on in re to a racist country, they say you see only what you want to see.
I’ve been in over 20 countries. I’m not saying there are not racists elsewhere.
Just take a look at the way the treat they asylum seekers - I’ve seen it first hand so I can speak from experience.
Should we even mention Pauline Hanson…
I think its a good idea overall. I think that people " convicted of hate " and their families should be forced to shove off. It would definitely put you into a mindset that you are going to have to get along w/ the rest of the country and hate the people you are living with!
On another note, although i am surprised that Australia is going this far - i’ve always thought that they were more laid back - perhaps this is a wave of the future. Of countries not only not putting up w/ terrorism but the hate type speach that predates it.
feel free to mention Pauline Hanson, hasn't she just got out of jail, no political profile now not even a blip on the political screen, she tapped into a feeling of unease in Australia and exploited it.
Need I mention Abu Bakar Bashir, what about his politcal profile in Bali ??? and his profile now,
wasn’t that less than 30 months for the death of 202 soft targets.
I have yet to speak to one ordinary aussie who think that our immigration department is going well but it is a hard task that they do, considering the options I have seen in our close neighbours who tow the refuggee boats back out to sea or organise and smuggle theese people with tacit permission into overcrowed ship and send them to Oz with sometimes horrific outcomes.
Bottom line is that if you think our history is disgusting and we are a country of racists then pack your bag and go to one of the other 20 country’s that you have been to.
Your statements only show how little you know what is going on in your own back yard. Pauline Hanson is in fact running as an independent for Queensland.
So what does Abu Bakar Bashir have to do with anything? His views are not racists but rather political and religious. I am in no way condemning his methods. I do not even agree with any of his views.
Are you trying to compare Australia to a third world country like Indonesia?
Maybe you need to look into what is really going on in your own country before making any comments.
By the way I do not live in Australia.
As repeated Pauline hanson not even a blip on the poitical screen, no profile, no media coverage and the great part is yes she can run as a indepedent, won't get anywhere.
In re to Abu Poltical and religious views rather that racist, isn,t what this thread about, people such as him hiding his racist views behind the guise of religious and political views and if you don't think his views a racists , you are delusional.
I am comparing our immigration process to other countries in our area, perhaps you would like to go through their immigration process rather than Australia's.
What country do you live in where there is no prior Hx of conflict, no differing views in re to immigration and one that has the immigration process fine tuned and no radical political parties or individuals, I know, it's that country at the end of the rainbow.
.
[quote]honkie wrote:
Your statements only show how little you know what is going on in your own back yard. Pauline Hanson is in fact running as an independent for Queensland.
[/quote]
Pauline Hanson was one politician out of about 150 in the Senate. She hasn’t been a force in politics since she was jailed for electoral fraud.
Pauline Hanson is a fish-and-chip shop owner from a place called Ipswich. There are no elections in that area of Queensland at the moment. Actually there aren’t any for about another 2 years. Pauline has quit politics after being slammed in the last election.
Good effort with stirring the shit. You failed. Try with something more up-to-date.
instead of making the muslim extremists leave the country, or anyone who supports terrorism, should just be shot
[quote]bikejames wrote:
I want to see the mosques and clerics who preach this radical shit being picketed. Moderate muslims should be organizing protests against this Islamo-fascism in front of the mosques and the clerics homes… Talk is cheap…[/quote]
And do you believe that moderate christians should picket rabid fundamentalist churches and preachers that espouse the killing of pro-abortionists?
Did they put it back after all the questions were asked?
So…that means 73% would turn them in - that’s quite a large majority…btw: statistics like this are meaniningless
[quote]iscariot wrote:
bikejames wrote:
I want to see the mosques and clerics who preach this radical shit being picketed. Moderate muslims should be organizing protests against this Islamo-fascism in front of the mosques and the clerics homes… Talk is cheap…
And do you believe that moderate christians should picket rabid fundamentalist churches and preachers that espouse the killing of pro-abortionists?
[/quote]
Yes.
I have to say, good on the Australians for standing up to the Islamofascists and their 14th century lifestyle. Send those preachers of death back to Crapistan. I love Australia, the people are so amicable and out going. Everytime I have been there, everyone has been so amazingly nice, it reminds me of Ireland.
It amazes me to see the left defending Islamofascism, very strange indeed.
You think we have problems with homosexual rights in the US, you should check out IRAN, they go on homosexual witchhunts and hang anyone accused of having feelings towards another man.
Womens rights are also another aspect sorely missing in most Islamic societies. They love the “honor killings” in these countries. The New York Times runs 65 covers stories about Abu Ghraib, but we have seen only one small story about the honor killings since the beginning of the war. I guess totalitarian ideologies make comfortable bedfellowes.
[quote]iscariot wrote:
…
And do you believe that moderate christians should picket rabid fundamentalist churches and preachers that espouse the killing of pro-abortionists?
…
[/quote]
Do more than 3 christian preachers in America or Australia actually call for the murder of abortion doctors?
I believe this is extremely rare.
It is still common for muslim clerics in America, Australia, UK etc. to espouse violence against the West.
This comparison you brought up really illustrates that the Islamic community needs to clean up its act.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
iscariot wrote:
…
And do you believe that moderate christians should picket rabid fundamentalist churches and preachers that espouse the killing of pro-abortionists?
…
[b]Do more than 3 christian preachers in America or Australia actually call for the murder of abortion doctors?
I believe this is extremely rare.
It is still common for muslim clerics in America, Australia, UK etc. to espouse violence against the West.
This comparison you brought up really illustrates that the Islamic community needs to clean up its act[/b].[/quote]
Not the point.
The point is this, that if you are going to call on one sector of society to ‘clean up it’s act’, for want of a better word, then you should be consistent in demanding that all groups do the same…
As for the abortion comparison, it’s not the best example, but it was the best I could come up with while maintaining a furtive watch for roving managers; the point stands, however.
Iscariot,
Last I checked anti-abortion zealots didn’t fly planes into buildings killing over 3000 innocents, don’t make a habit of walking into cafes and onto buses and blowing themselves up or cutting the heads off of “infidels”. BTW, have you seen those beheading videos? I’ll be glad to post the links if you haven’t. How about the pics of those animals (including their children) parading around the charred bodies of the American contractors they butchered in Fallujah? I dare you to watch those videos and see those pics and then defend anything those Islamo-fascists or the communities that support them with their silence does.
Besides, you’re comparing apples to oranges. Each group has it’s wackos but Islam’s wackos are far more dangerous than christian wackos. The difference is one group may have some that talk shit but the other group acts on it (please don’t tell me I need to point out which is which).
And if you feel safe knowing that 27% of muslims polled in London would let their fellow countrymen die in a terror attack that they could have prevented you’ve got some serious issues. I certainly don’t like knowing that 1 in 4 would let that happen.
Lastly, if I went to church and heard the preacher (or anyone for that matter) calling for the death of those they didn’t agree with you bet I would take issue with that and do what I could to shut them up. And the christian community in general doesn’t tolerate that crap. Look at the immense pressure brought to bear on Pat Robertson for his comments. He’s completely retracted his statements calling for the assasination of that anti-American dictator (no, rigged elections don’t change the fact that he is a dictator). Ever seen that much pressure by the muslim community put on an Islamic cleric for inflammatory comments?
Besides, don’t skirt the issue and try to justify one groups glaring lack of accountability and action with what you perceive to be another groups lack of the same.
[quote]iscariot wrote:
Not the point.
The point is this, that if you are going to call on one sector of society to ‘clean up it’s act’, for want of a better word, then you should be consistent in demanding that all groups do the same…
As for the abortion comparison, it’s not the best example, but it was the best I could come up with while maintaining a furtive watch for roving managers; the point stands, however.
[/quote]
Sorry, didn’t see this lame reply before I posted my previous rant…
Please show me where I said other groups don’t need to be accountable. The issue of this thread (and the big issue of current times) is the Islamo-fascists, their nazi like views and the communities that shelter them and refuse to integrate into the societies that took them in. And if the abortion issue was an bad example then, assuming that you don’t work all the time, spend some time thinking and come up with a better example. I highly doubt that you can…
Why would you try to defend these people by not wanting to hold their communities accountable? They would chop your head off just as quick as some other “infadel” if you didn’t convert to Islam. Trust me, they don’t plan on stopping with America buddy. Once these people are dealt with we’ll move on to the next religous zealot issue…
[quote]iscariot wrote:
Not the point.
The point is this, that if you are going to call on one sector of society to ‘clean up it’s act’, for want of a better word, then you should be consistent in demanding that all groups do the same…
As for the abortion comparison, it’s not the best example, but it was the best I could come up with while maintaining a furtive watch for roving managers; the point stands, however.
[/quote]
I disagree. To state your premise generally, you’re agruing that if you act to fix one area in which you see a problem you are morally obligated to act to fix all areas in which you see a problem. You could narrow that to say all areas in which you see a similar problem. But that’s simply not true. Especially if you consider one problem to be potentially more harmful than the other.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
I disagree. To state your premise generally, you’re agruing that if you act to fix one area in which you see a problem you are morally obligated to act to fix all areas in which you see a problem. You could narrow that to say all areas in which you see a similar problem. But that’s simply not true. Especially if you consider one problem to be potentially more harmful than the other.[/quote]
Well, for a start, it depends on what you call and mean by ‘a fix’. What I’m hearing calls for is not a lot of fixing. It’s calling for someone else to fix a perceived problem - what I’m suggesting is that I hope the people whom are doing all the talking, about X & Y, are consistent enough in their beliefs to recognise the issues involved in finger pointing can seldom solely be applied to one group or sector in society.
There’s a big difference between rhetoric and action - and I’m not seeing a lot of action from the people with the rhetoric…
[quote]bikejames wrote:
iscariot [little ‘i’, I’m not ‘the’ Iscariot],
Last I checked anti-abortion zealots didn’t fly planes into buildings killing over 3000 innocents, don’t make a habit of walking into cafes and onto buses and blowing themselves up or cutting the heads off of “infidels”. [/quote]
Certainly, it’s a perspective thing, but I don’t differentiate between mass and personal tragedies as a way of trying to justify whose actions are worse or less justifiable. To my mind, the mindset that allows a terrorist to fly a plane into a building is no worse than someone who purposely takes anothers life solely because they disagree with what another person does.
…And precisely where did I say that I supported terrorist actions, or more correctly, say that such actions are acceptable? Your examples are irrelevant to the discussion.
Maybe at this precise point in history. Go back 1000 years and it was the Christian fundamentalist Wackos who were far more dangerous.
Think on it this way, it is not Islam’s wacko who are more dangerous, [I seriously doubt ‘Islam’ in the sense of what is written in the Koran/Qu’ran wants a bar of these people] but the people who are using Islam to justify their actions that are nuts.
A wacko, is a wacko, is a wacko and hate doesn’t need a label to hate, it just happens to be useful, for both sides.
Maybe I have issues :), but I have more issues with statistics presented as fact when you don’t know any of the following. At a bare minimum I’d want
- Sample Size
- Specific Islamic Sect
- Socio-eco oritentation
- Geographic location
and once I had that then I’d want a very very close look at the questions.
[quote]
Lastly, if I went to church and heard the preacher (or anyone for that matter) calling for the death of those they didn’t agree with you bet I would take issue with that and do what I could to shut them up.[/quote]
As would I, the thing is though, you can’t expect everyone to hold your believe sets or ethical sets; I know plenty of christians who nod like an idiot at everything that comes out of a preachers mouth, yet outside of church they are rational and logical.
[quote]
And the christian community in general doesn’t tolerate that crap.[/quote]
Disagree. For a start, Christianity is not some homogenous, amorphous mass…but that’s another argument
[quote]
Besides, don’t skirt the issue and try to justify one groups glaring lack of accountability and action with what you perceive to be another groups lack of the same.[/quote]
It’s not skirtng the issue, it’s called balance.
BTW: I’m not going to reply to your other post calling me lame, since I wasn’t replying to you in that post…do try to keep up 
We don’t like arseholes of any clour or creed that advocates violence, Australians are generally pretty tolerant but I would have no problems in shipping Christan zealots or Muslim zealots or any zealots promoting violence back to the rock they crawled out from under and for Australians doing the same , the law applies to them, they would be jailed. pretty simple really.
[quote]
BostonBarrister wrote:
I disagree. To state your premise generally, you’re agruing that if you act to fix one area in which you see a problem you are morally obligated to act to fix all areas in which you see a problem. You could narrow that to say all areas in which you see a similar problem. But that’s simply not true. Especially if you consider one problem to be potentially more harmful than the other.
iscariot wrote:
Well, for a start, it depends on what you call and mean by ‘a fix’. What I’m hearing calls for is not a lot of fixing. It’s calling for someone else to fix a perceived problem - what I’m suggesting is that I hope the people whom are doing all the talking, about X & Y, are consistent enough in their beliefs to recognise the issues involved in finger pointing can seldom solely be applied to one group or sector in society.
There’s a big difference between rhetoric and action - and I’m not seeing a lot of action from the people with the rhetoric…[/quote]
True enough. I was concerned that it was a “You can’t do anything about X because you aren’t doing anything about Y” argument - I don’t think that type of argument holds water.
But recognizing issues and having principles are two very important things, and one should try to be as consistent as possible.