[quote]Moriarty wrote:
You’re right, let’s settle this.
If you’re still taking what Islamic terrorists say at face value, as you were earlier, then there’s no need to speculate. Their own, stated definition of a “win” includes:
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The complete removal of foreign presence from Arab soil.
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The complete destruction of Israel.
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Worldwide rule of Sharia law, made possible by the destruction of western liberal democracy.
Those are the goals they have stated. Achieving those goals is the definition of a “win”. Terrorism is a means to those ends. Your definition of “win” is confusing the means with the ends. It’s like saying scoring a run in baseball is a win, even though you’re down 20-1.
Now that that’s answered, please begin presenting your case that the terrorists are “winning”. From my vantage point they are failing at all three of their stated goals.[/quote]
Finally, some meat…
You’re perfectly right. The goals that they have stated indeed include freeing Arab soil from foreign military presence, destruction of Israel, and establishment of Shari’a law.
The first goal is the only one that I would view as legitimate. After all, many Arab dictatorships would be toast if it wasn’t for the US support that keeps them in place. But of course, remove any of those bloody tyrants and you end up with a democracy which will ultimately vote for the only viable option in the Arab world that is Islamists. Arab nationalism died in '67 and cannot be resuscitated.
Israel is here to stay. It would be absurd to believe that a bunch of bearded horsemen armed with swords can destroy the 5th military power on earth. Did I mention nuclear capable? If Israel remains the (pseudo?)democracy that it is, Arabs will eventually outnumber Jews and there’s no telling what the hatred fueled by the IDF’s actions over generations will incite the Arabs to do. I fear the worst. But I digress…
Thinking that the murderous cavemen could establish Shari’a law throughout the world is, simply put, ridiculous. But then again, we’re dealing with irrational folks here who think slaughtering innocents get them a ticket to heaven.
From a feet-on-the-ground analysis, I’d say that the only viable goal of the members of the organization is to scare people off and draw attention to the plight of the Palestinian people. So, what’s the best an Al-Qaeda terrorist can hope for? Die, scare people off and kill some.
Because of the nature of the combat, we (you, me and everyone that’s not with Al-Qaeda) find ourselves handicapped from the onset. Our goal is to stay alive, while theirs is to die. For that reason, their chances of losing are pretty slim.
I probably shouldn’t have avoided using such a phrase as “the terrorists have already won” in the OP. I realize now that it can be interpreted in very many ways. I should have been more specific and indicated that by their job of terrorizing people was successfully achieved.
I seriously doubt Ben Laden and his crew believe in those three goals stated above. I think they’re just after martyrdom at this point. You cannot scare or deter them, and the best you can hope to achieve is kill them. And dying is precisely what they’re after.
To sum up, while you may view victory in baseball as scoring more than your opponent, their rules are totally different. They live in bizarro world and are standing in the field praying to receive a ball in the face. They couldn’t care less about you scoring points. In fact, every time you do, they rejoice.
It’s fucked up I know, but until you acknowledge that, you’re bound to fail in defeating terror.