Attention All Employees

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
You are really some 16 year old who can’t go to school aren’t you? Are you a hs dropout who can’t find a job? Must be terrible – join the Marines. Get a real education.

All of these personal attacks are just uncalled for. Just because you get summers off…and Christmas (two WHOLE weeks)…and New Years…and Easter you think you can talk down to people.

I nailed it! You really are a teenager. Are you home schooling and do this because your bored?

[/quote]

Are you? You are the one who teaches children all day long yet finds helping people with taxes YOU ARE ALREADY PAYING some type of extortion. It simply makes no sense unless you are aware of where all of your money is going.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

Actually, if you’re referring to your fictional memo, NO it isn’t. You do not elect your employer to make decisions like these. Your contract, whether real or implied, stipulates that you will perform “x” service for “x” wages. That’s all. You do however elect your government to make them.
If you are a member of a teacher’s, or any, union you should be aware of how this works on a smaller level. To be a member of the union, you are required to volunteer a portion of your pay so the union can function properly. Some of those functions may only affect you indirectly, or not at all, but whatever the case, you are still required to pay.

You are calling extortion a ‘contribution’. Should I be excluded from the group if I disagree with the how the ‘group’ chooses to spend my ‘contribution’?

Not as long as you MAKE the contribution. You’re entitled to disagree as much as you like. If enough people disagree, it doesn’t happen. That’s the beauty of Democracy.

This is precisely why I started this thread – I don’t want for someone to do evil under the guise of doing good.

Helping victims of a natural disaster is evil disguised as good?

You cannot rob someone and make your act moral by giving the stolen goods to the needy.

Allow me to reiterate. YOU ARE NOT BEING ROBBED!
You are being forced to contribute to the society you CHOOSE to be a part of. If you are unhappy about it, fine, but you still have to contribute. If you refuse to contribute, then you forfeit the right to be a member of this society.

What do you think I think of someone who then shreiks at me on national TV about how evil we are? “Give me a job, give me housing, give me this or that…” That small amount of money was sacred; it’s bad enough it was extorted but then to see someone claim it as their right!! Disgusting.

That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. CONTRIBUTE ANYWAY!!

Are you mad because a few citizens of NOLA didn’t ask nice? Is it the shreiking that has you in a tizzy? Since they lost EVERYTHING, I vote for giving them some slack if they have an occassional outburst. Money may be important, but it’s not sacred. Life is.
Money is a tool to protect what’s sacred.

You’re still calling an extortion a contribution? Why? If your ideas are correct, why do the leaders of the group not ask the members of the group, “Hey guys, pony up! Some members are hurting over here.” Why do they have to resort to force? You say I must make contributions to a group I joined voluntarily – but ignore the difference between contribution and extortion.

Now, if you mean ‘dues’, then you may be on to something. But, if you were a member of a club, would you let the president spend your dues on some pet project, or to help his neighbor Charlie buy a new mower? No, you’d want him TO ASK FIRST.

Why can’t you see that compulsion is barbaric? Weren’t we all taught to ask first, before taking?

[/quote]

You already “ponied up”. You “pony up” with each paycheck. Call it an extortion if you like, but taxes and dues aren’t that different. If you don’t pay your dues, you’re out of the union, right? Same with taxes.

I didn’t say you joined the group voluntarily, but you do CHOOSE to REMAIN in the group voluntarily. How can that be extortion when nobody is forcing you to remain in the group.

Your language is constant, but your logic as all over the place.

The government does ask first, but in the interest of getting things done, they don’t ask all 250 million people individually each time they spend their “booty”, they ask the people that were ELECTED to office if it’s okay to spend on this or that. If you don’t like those decisions, vote differently and, again, if enough people share your feelings, things will change.

Come on teach, this is basic high school civics stuff. Do they still call it civics? I’m dating myself.

This BS is getting old fast.

We (as a nation) should be discussing what rebuilding NO really means. How much should we rebuild, how many people are going to return, etc.

An overview of what the Saints are doing is a good point of discussion.

The Superdome can be made playable in ~10 months of work according to some consultant. Another consultant has been hired to verify.

Should the Saints pretend to be a New Orleans based business on the hope that the stadium will be ready at the end of the 2006 season and the hope that enough people will live in the area and actually attend games?

Should the Saints move to Los Angeles and then let the NFL stick another franchise in New Orleans if the city bounces back in 5 years?

I’ll bet there are thousands of companies that are thinking the same thoughts.

Is this country going to sink hundreds of billions of dollars into New Orleans on the hopes that it will turn into a thriving city or will this money be skimmed and wasted?

Should we spend the money to make it livable and then let the freemarket figure it out or should the federal government maintain a heavy hand in directing how it should be rebuilt?

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
This BS is getting old fast.

We (as a nation) should be discussing what rebuilding NO really means. How much should we rebuild, how many people are going to return, etc.

An overview of what the Saints are doing is a good point of discussion.

The Superdome can be made playable in ~10 months of work according to some consultant. Another consultant has been hired to verify.

Should the Saints pretend to be a New Orleans based business on the hope that the stadium will be ready at the end of the 2006 season and the hope that enough people will live in the area and actually attend games?

Should the Saints move to Los Angeles and then let the NFL stick another franchise in New Orleans if the city bounces back in 5 years?

I’ll bet there are thousands of companies that are thinking the same thoughts.

Is this country going to sink hundreds of billions of dollars into New Orleans on the hopes that it will turn into a thriving city or will this money be skimmed and wasted?

Should we spend the money to make it livable and then let the freemarket figure it out or should the federal government maintain a heavy hand in directing how it should be rebuilt?
[/quote]

The points you brought up are the only thing worth discussing.

[quote]GeorgeMontyIV wrote:

Now, I must leave you to get on with whatever it is that you peasants do in your respective trailer parks on a Saturday evening. I’ve just finished my scotch and my maid awaits me. The dirty creature is about to perform some form of an oral act upon me that I’m told I’m to enjoy immensely! Good evening![/quote]

I don’t care who you are, that’s funny!

Seriously, with all the taxing/raping of the populaces that’s done in other countries, is this really such a big deal?

I like to keep as much money of mine as possible, but we have to support our own - that’s what makes us Americans.

However, I would appreciate more say when I make my “contribution.” Because I suspect if you put it to a vote, the majority of Americans would not rebuild N’awlins. It makes no sense. Move the city back from the flood zones for God’s sake, or we’ll be doing it again.

Rebuilding should not be an act of pride, UNLIKE rebuilding our towers in New York. Rebuilding should make common sense, and instead we’re throwing good money after bad.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
You are making an error, but an honest one. Your error is epistemological. You are ascribing identity to a group, over and above the individuals in the group. For example, when someone says : “For the good of the community…” or similar phraseology, they actually mean ‘for the good of the majority, or some members of the group.’

But this is precisely what I’m attacking. Forcing a member to work for someone else is actually detrimental to the group. There is no ‘group’ over and above the individuals within it. Harming one member harms someone in the group, thus hurting the group. Forcing someone to sacrifice for ‘the group’ is actually the philosophy of cannibals.

Therefore, it is up to us to ensure that our country does NOT become like others, a society of cannibals. The Katrina refugees must rely on private charity or themselves. Otherwise, they are moral-cannibals, consuming someone else’s extorted production.

If you don’t like it here, why not move back to Africa?
[/quote]

WTF? this is racist crap coming from a black guy.

Im not sure on whether NO should really be repopulated/rebuilt on a large scale. Its below sea level and the government engineers have shown themselves to blow goats at engineering a levee. Isn’t the sea rising? If it can be done and not be a losing proposition LT then go for it.

[quote]thabigdon24 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
You are making an error, but an honest one. Your error is epistemological. You are ascribing identity to a group, over and above the individuals in the group. For example, when someone says : “For the good of the community…” or similar phraseology, they actually mean ‘for the good of the majority, or some members of the group.’

But this is precisely what I’m attacking. Forcing a member to work for someone else is actually detrimental to the group. There is no ‘group’ over and above the individuals within it. Harming one member harms someone in the group, thus hurting the group. Forcing someone to sacrifice for ‘the group’ is actually the philosophy of cannibals.

Therefore, it is up to us to ensure that our country does NOT become like others, a society of cannibals. The Katrina refugees must rely on private charity or themselves. Otherwise, they are moral-cannibals, consuming someone else’s extorted production.

If you don’t like it here, why not move back to Africa?

WTF? this is racist crap coming from a black guy. [/quote]

It’s a joke, a spin off another thread.

[quote]thabigdon24 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
You are making an error, but an honest one. Your error is epistemological. You are ascribing identity to a group, over and above the individuals in the group. For example, when someone says : “For the good of the community…” or similar phraseology, they actually mean ‘for the good of the majority, or some members of the group.’

But this is precisely what I’m attacking. Forcing a member to work for someone else is actually detrimental to the group. There is no ‘group’ over and above the individuals within it. Harming one member harms someone in the group, thus hurting the group. Forcing someone to sacrifice for ‘the group’ is actually the philosophy of cannibals.

Therefore, it is up to us to ensure that our country does NOT become like others, a society of cannibals. The Katrina refugees must rely on private charity or themselves. Otherwise, they are moral-cannibals, consuming someone else’s extorted production.

If you don’t like it here, why not move back to Africa?

WTF? this is racist crap coming from a black guy. [/quote]

I want it clearly pointed out that I (Headhunter) did not say that. That was our brilliant Professor of Bullshitology.

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
thabigdon24 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
You are making an error, but an honest one. Your error is epistemological. You are ascribing identity to a group, over and above the individuals in the group. For example, when someone says : “For the good of the community…” or similar phraseology, they actually mean ‘for the good of the majority, or some members of the group.’

But this is precisely what I’m attacking. Forcing a member to work for someone else is actually detrimental to the group. There is no ‘group’ over and above the individuals within it. Harming one member harms someone in the group, thus hurting the group. Forcing someone to sacrifice for ‘the group’ is actually the philosophy of cannibals.

Therefore, it is up to us to ensure that our country does NOT become like others, a society of cannibals. The Katrina refugees must rely on private charity or themselves. Otherwise, they are moral-cannibals, consuming someone else’s extorted production.

If you don’t like it here, why not move back to Africa?

WTF? this is racist crap coming from a black guy.

It’s a joke, a spin off another thread.
[/quote]

Why did the professor not say that? He seems clear in his intent.

AZ Mojo,

First, I don’t regard saying someone is mistaken as an insult.

That aside, I think the analogy of a club is a false one. Suppose you are in a club and pay dues to remain in the club (as per your analogy). You want to stay in this club because its the best in town. At a meeting, one member stands up and DEMANDS funds from the general fund. His house burned down and he demands that you help him. What’s the likely response he’ll get? He doesn’t ask for help, he demands it as his right.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
You are really some 16 year old who can’t go to school aren’t you? Are you a hs dropout who can’t find a job? Must be terrible – join the Marines. Get a real education.

All of these personal attacks are just uncalled for. Just because you get summers off…and Christmas (two WHOLE weeks)…and New Years…and Easter you think you can talk down to people.

I nailed it! You really are a teenager. Are you home schooling and do this because your bored?

Are you? You are the one who teaches children all day long yet finds helping people with taxes YOU ARE ALREADY PAYING some type of extortion. It simply makes no sense unless you are aware of where all of your money is going.
[/quote]

I see now why you have to be home schooled. The other students would beat the living crap out of you, simply for the pure nonsense you spout.

Going downhill fast, x!

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
AZ Mojo,

First, I don’t regard saying someone is mistaken as an insult.

That aside, I think the analogy of a club is a false one. Suppose you are in a club and pay dues to remain in the club (as per your analogy). You want to stay in this club because its the best in town. At a meeting, one member stands up and DEMANDS funds from the general fund. His house burned down and he demands that you help him. What’s the likely response he’ll get? He doesn’t ask for help, he demands it as his right.

[/quote]

But calling somebody ignorant, IS, in many circles. Whatever, it doesn’t matter.

Now, I think you just don’t like analogies. You didn’t like the insurance one, and now you don’t like this one. Are the analogies false, or is it your arguments?

I wasn’t comparing it to a club, I was comparing it to a union. So, a member DEMANDS funds. So what? I can demand anything I want, just as you can. Doesn’t the club(as you put it) still decide if he gets them, or does the act of demanding automatically warrant the money? I don’t think so.

Really, every one of you arguments has boiled down the shreiking demands of NOLA citizens, and your unhappiness with them. That’s why I mentioned it, and you’re once again proving it true.

WHO CARES IF THEY DEMANDED IT? That doesn’t decide if they get it.

WE, THE PEOPLE, DECIDE IF THEY GET IT.

We all know your vote.

On a side note, I agree with Zap in regard to the rebuilding effort. Make it livable and let the free market decide how big it gets.
That’s MY vote.

[quote]thabigdon24 wrote:
WTF? this is racist crap coming from a black guy. [/quote]

What the living hell? A black guy telling a white guy that if he doesn’t like this countryu he can go back to Africa is racist? You can’t be that stupid.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
thabigdon24 wrote:
WTF? this is racist crap coming from a black guy.

What the living hell? A black guy telling a white guy that if he doesn’t like this countryu he can go back to Africa is racist? You can’t be that stupid.[/quote]

We are about to lose New Orleans. Whether it is a conscious plan to let the city rot until no one is willing to move back or honest paralysis over difficult questions, the moment is upon us when a major American city will die, leaving nothing but a few shells for tourists to visit like a museum.

We said this wouldn’t happen. President Bush said it wouldn’t happen. He stood in Jackson Square and said, “There is no way to imagine America without New Orleans.” But it has been over three months since Hurricane Katrina struck and the city is in complete shambles.

There are many unanswered questions that will take years to work out, but one is make-or-break and needs to be dealt with immediately. It all boils down to the levee system. People will clear garbage, live in tents, work their fingers to the bone to reclaim homes and lives, but not if they don’t believe they will be protected by more than patches to the same old system that failed during the deadly storm. Homeowners, businesses and insurance companies all need a commitment before they will stake their futures on the city.

At this moment the reconstruction is a rudderless ship. There is no effective leadership that we can identify. How many people could even name the president’s liaison for the reconstruction effort, Donald Powell? Lawmakers need to understand that for New Orleans the words “pending in Congress” are a death warrant requiring no signature.

The rumbling from Washington that the proposed cost of better levees is too much has grown louder. Pretending we are going to do the necessary work eventually, while stalling until the next hurricane season is upon us, is dishonest and cowardly. Unless some clear, quick commitments are made, the displaced will have no choice but to sink roots in the alien communities where they landed.

The price tag for protection against a Category 5 hurricane, which would involve not just stronger and higher levees but also new drainage canals and environmental restoration, would very likely run to well over $32 billion. That is a lot of money.

But that starting point represents just 1.2 percent of this year’s estimated $2.6 trillion in federal spending, which actually overstates the case, since the cost would be spread over many years. And it is barely one-third the cost of the $95 billion in tax cuts passed just last week by the House of Representatives.

Total allocations for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the war on terror have topped $300 billion. All that money has been appropriated as the cost of protecting the nation from terrorist attacks. But what was the worst possible case we fought to prevent?

Losing a major American city.

“We’ll not just rebuild, we’ll build higher and better,” President Bush said that night in September. Our feeling, strongly, is that he was right and should keep to his word. We in New York remember well what it was like for the country to rally around our city in a desperate hour. New York survived and has flourished. New Orleans can too.

Of course, New Orleans’s local and state officials must do their part as well, and demonstrate the political and practical will to rebuild the city efficiently and responsibly. They must, as quickly as possible, produce a comprehensive plan for putting New Orleans back together.

Which schools will be rebuilt and which will be absorbed? Which neighborhoods will be shored up? Where will the roads go? What about electricity and water lines? So far, local and state officials have been derelict at producing anything that comes close to a coherent plan. That is unacceptable.

The city must rise to the occasion. But it will not have that opportunity without the levees, and only the office of the president is strong enough to goad Congress to take swift action. Only his voice is loud enough to call people home and convince them that commitments will be met.

Maybe America does not want to rebuild New Orleans. Maybe we have decided that the deficits are too large and the money too scarce, and that it is better just to look the other way until the city withers and disappears. If that is truly the case, then it is incumbent on President Bush and Congress to admit it, and organize a real plan to help the dislocated residents resettle into new homes.

The communities that opened their hearts to the Katrina refugees need to know that their short-term act of charity has turned into a permanent commitment.

If the rest of the nation has decided it is too expensive to give the people of New Orleans a chance at renewal, we have to tell them so. We must tell them we spent our rainy-day fund on a costly stalemate in Iraq, that we gave it away in tax cuts for wealthy families and shareholders. We must tell them America is too broke and too weak to rebuild one of its great cities.

Our nation would then look like a feeble giant indeed. But whether we admit it or not, this is our choice to make. We decide whether New Orleans lives or dies.

Rhino,

The people who’ve moved here from NO aren’t going to go back. They have better jobs, better housing, better schools. Why would they go back to nothing?

[quote]doogie wrote:
Rhino,

The people who’ve moved here from NO aren’t going to go back. They have better jobs, better housing, better schools. Why would they go back to nothing?[/quote]

They do not represent everyone. They reresent by enlarge the poorest part of the population and were likely living in subsidy housing.

What about the people who were the responsible ones? People that have paid taxes the entire lives and are now retired. The guy that pays taxes, works, pays property taxes had insurance is the one who really lost. So many people lived here their entre lives and have plenty of reason to want to return.

Not all of NOLA is ghetto. In fact, some of the most high dollar realeastate in America is here. Ever notice how St. Charles Street is on the Monoply board. It’s on there for a reason.

The city of New Orleans is ovr 300 years old, and while there is a lot of poor people there is also a lot of industry and “old money”. We are the number one tourist detination in the US with over 11 million visitors last year. There was and can be an economy to support these people here when the city recovers.

Thanks to you and all of the kind people in the Great State of Texas for helping so many Louisianians!

[quote]RHINO928 wrote:
Dear President Bush and Members of Congress

In the three months since Hurricane Katrina, and then Hurricane Rita, ravaged New Orleans and coastal Louisiana, Americans have opened their hearts to those displaced and affected by the greatest natural disaster in our nation’s history. Their charitable and humanitarian outpouring reflects the very best in our country’s character. But more is necessary.

You requested that the citizens of Louisiana lead the way by creating and offering ideas for rebuilding that the Federal government can support. Through task forces, commissions, and community meetings, Louisiana is doing its part. Now, it is time for Washington to act.

To revitalize New Orleans and other affected communities will take a genuine commitment to the future. To secure the natural bounty of coastal Louisiana and America’s Wetlands as part of our legacy to future generations will take a commitment to protecting and restoring America’s greatest wetland treasure.

This Administration and this Congress have a responsibility to act to save these treasures and the time to make that commitment is now.

At the heart of the revitalization effort and at the heart of your responsibility is a commitment to two things:

  1. Honest and effective storm protection, up to a Category 5 level, for New Orleans and other population centers, and

  2. Coastal restoration and conservation.

These two pieces are inextricably tied together, and are key responsibilities of the federal government. Each day that passes without a commitment to the survival and prosperity of New Orleans, south Louisiana and America’s Wetland compounds and prolongs this tragedy. This is not just about a storm or Louisiana. It is about whether America answers the call of stewardship and responsibility. The time to act is now.[/quote]

What type of gross chickshit is this?!?

I live 60 miles from the most heavily damaged areas who are seeing less aid than NOLA is. Funny how the fastest things getting rebuild there are casinos… But anyway…

The federal responsibility? Please. I almost want to shit my pants laughing cause some jerk thinks it my responsibility he put his entire community in a flood plain and wants me to now protect it from hurricanes on the coast?

How about you 1) Move inland 2) Deal with it like everyone else living in FL, TX, other parts of LA, MS AL, etc. do?

[quote]RHINO928 wrote:
doogie wrote:
Rhino,

The people who’ve moved here from NO aren’t going to go back. They have better jobs, better housing, better schools. Why would they go back to nothing?

They do not represent everyone. They reresent by enlarge the poorest part of the population and were likely living in subsidy housing.

What about the people who were the responsible ones? People that have paid taxes the entire lives and are now retired. The guy that pays taxes, works, pays property taxes had insurance is the one who really lost. So many people lived here their entre lives and have plenty of reason to want to return.

Not all of NOLA is ghetto. In fact, some of the most high dollar realeastate in America is here. Ever notice how St. Charles Street is on the Monoply board. It’s on there for a reason.

The city of New Orleans is ovr 300 years old, and while there is a lot of poor people there is also a lot of industry and “old money”. We are the number one tourist detination in the US with over 11 million visitors last year. There was and can be an economy to support these people here when the city recovers.

Thanks to you and all of the kind people in the Great State of Texas for helping so many Louisianians! [/quote]

Wrong St. Charles dipshit. Better luck next time. A lot of the more successful people have also left with the poor. They’ve found new better paying jobs and rather stay there until they see whats happened to their city than wait. Even some people who’re currently there are contemplating moving.

I think the estimates of the city being around 100k will be right around it.

BTW the Saints need to leave ASAP. NOLA was a terrible NFL city before the hurricane its not better than Shreveport now.