[quote]swoleupinya wrote:
The quantity of variables involved in predicting the results of altered history is so great as to make it functionally impossible. You are assuming way too much here.
[/quote]
And predicting future-history, what is your opinion there?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]swoleupinya wrote:
The quantity of variables involved in predicting the results of altered history is so great as to make it functionally impossible. You are assuming way too much here.
[/quote]
And predicting future-history, what is your opinion there?[/quote]
Depends on how far you want to go… But, generally it’s easier because you can consider trends, etc…
That being said, exercises in prediction are most often futile. A good book on this is The Black Swan by Nicholas Talieb. Of course, this doesn’t mean we should ignore our stake in public policy decisions, cultural trends, etc…
I do suspect that the majority of people do not do enough critical thinking before taking a position, and they place entirely too much certainty in their opinions. I try (not always successfully) to present disclaimers, qualifications and rational objections to arguments that I post.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
<<< I could go on, but I really hope you’re starting to see the point. >>>[/quote]Indeed I do and from your perspective you’re absolutely right. [quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:No matter what the outcome or evidence, either way a situation goes, you simply see the infallible providence of an almighty God whose decrees cannot fail according to His own word. >>>[/quote]I took a bit of liberty in simply translating your words God’s way.
[/quote]
So, in other words, you can’t be wrong, no matter what.
Your position is not rooted in any sane thought process.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
What would make Vishna real, and why would I worship him if he wasn’t real?[/quote]Why do you care man? What possible motivation could you have to go on and on and on in these threads? Someone like me who is an obviously lobotomized religious fanatic someone might understand, but why you? Wadda you care about all this?
[/quote]
Yeah, atheists have no reason to care if someone else believes in god.
Except that its printed on the money we spend, in the pledge of allegiance our children are forced to recite in schools, we’re considered rude if we dont say “god bless you” when someone sneezes, most of our cultural holidays are inexplicably linked to christianity (cause, see, jesus was born and now a fat man in red gives presents to kids, and he came back from the dead now rabbits hide eggs. perfect sense.), gays are targeted and harassed and vilified because the bible ‘condemns’ them, no non-christian has ever held the office of president of the united states, religion has historically been the cause of war, torture, murder, etc, and has retarded the progress of science, until recently swearing on a christian bible was necessary for court testimony, otherwise good people are told they’ll be eternally punished because they dont subscribe to one particular religion, and the theists have the nerve to claim (at the same time) both that their beliefs are rooted in evidence and that they can dismiss any evidence they want if it doesnt fit what they want to think.
But other than all that stuff…
yeah, I totally cant see why an atheist would be bothered.
Do you live in America, Tirib?
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
What would make Vishna real, and why would I worship him if he wasn’t real?[/quote]Why do you care man? What possible motivation could you have to go on and on and on in these threads? Someone like me who is an obviously lobotomized religious fanatic someone might understand, but why you? Wadda you care about all this?
[/quote]
Yeah, atheists have no reason to care if someone else believes in god.
Except that its printed on the money we spend, in the pledge of allegiance our children are forced to recite in schools, we’re considered rude if we dont say “god bless you” when someone sneezes, most of our cultural holidays are inexplicably linked to christianity (cause, see, jesus was born and now a fat man in red gives presents to kids, and he came back from the dead now rabbits hide eggs. perfect sense.), gays are targeted and harassed and vilified because the bible ‘condemns’ them, no non-christian has ever held the office of president of the united states, religion has historically been the cause of war, torture, murder, etc, and has retarded the progress of science, until recently swearing on a christian bible was necessary for court testimony, otherwise good people are told they’ll be eternally punished because they dont subscribe to one particular religion, and the theists have the nerve to claim (at the same time) both that their beliefs are rooted in evidence and that they can dismiss any evidence they want if it doesnt fit what they want to think.
But other than all that stuff…
yeah, I totally cant see why an atheist would be bothered.
Do you live in America, Tirib?[/quote]
A lot of those issues are why I named the thread title ‘Atheism-o-phobia’
It does take a bit of explaining to people why I won’t say the pledge of allegiance. I have to explain that it’s not the pledging of allegiance to America I have a problem, but the whole God part of it. And often people still don’t understand.
Certainly no one is accusing him of being a Christian just yet, but he has taken a step in the right direction. Life long otuspoken atheist Antony Flew apparently now believes in God. “A super-intelligence is the only good explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature, Flew said in a telephone interview from England.”
Hope springs eternal once past a given age and minus a large amount of youthful hubris.
Since no one will listen to the video I posted, I want to bring up a point that wfifer brought up that certainly applies to the materialist/naturalist, how does one account for rationality of their own mind when the atoms that compose one’s brain were put together by unguided processes or even know that their brain is made up of atoms.
So he admitted there’s an uncaused cause. What’s the big deal?
And there ya go again, saying everyone who doesn’t believe in God is a young whippersnapper
[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
Since no one will listen to the video I posted, I want to bring up a point that wfifer brought up that certainly applies to the materialist/naturalist, how does one account for rationality of their own mind when the atoms that compose one’s brain were put together by unguided processes or even know that their brain is made up of atoms.[/quote]
I saw it. It was interesting. There’s just lot of information to digest there. It’s like trying to to respond to 20 different posts or something like that.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
And there ya go again, saying everyone who doesn’t believe in God is a young whippersnapper :)[/quote]
I’ve posted this before but apparently you missed it:
In a 2006 Gallup Poll Regarding Belief In A Higher Power It Was Found
“Both Agnostics and Atheists are predominantly male. Age Atheists are young. Fully 55 percent are under age 35. Only 20 percent are 50 and over, as opposed to 37 percent of all Americans. Interestingly, Agnostics are older than Atheists, though still younger than the general population…”
The study also points out that most atheists are male. If you take the subject matter of this site and who the target consumer is it’s a small stretch to imagine that most (not all, never once said all) atheists on this site are young males.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
So he admitted there’s an uncaused cause. What’s the big deal?
And there ya go again, saying everyone who doesn’t believe in God is a young whippersnapper :)[/quote]
Well now atleast this is a starting point, think about what properties this first cause must have(also consider the properties he has if he is where moral perfection comes from.)
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
Since no one will listen to the video I posted, I want to bring up a point that wfifer brought up that certainly applies to the materialist/naturalist, how does one account for rationality of their own mind when the atoms that compose one’s brain were put together by unguided processes or even know that their brain is made up of atoms.[/quote]
I saw it. It was interesting. There’s just lot of information to digest there. It’s like trying to to respond to 20 different posts or something like that.[/quote]
Cool, even though you are an atheist I believe you will enjoy the 5 part series by John Lennox and/or Ravi Zacharis on youtube called “Is Faith Delusional”
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
And there ya go again, saying everyone who doesn’t believe in God is a young whippersnapper :)[/quote]
I’ve posted this before but apparently you missed it:
In a 2006 Gallup Poll Regarding Belief In A Higher Power It Was Found
“Both Agnostics and Atheists are predominantly male. Age Atheists are young. Fully 55 percent are under age 35. Only 20 percent are 50 and over, as opposed to 37 percent of all Americans. Interestingly, Agnostics are older than Atheists, though still younger than the general population…”
The study also points out that most atheists are male. If you take the subject matter of this site and who the target consumer is it’s a small stretch to imagine that most (not all, never once said all) atheists on this site are young males.
[/quote]
You can’t say it’s because of age. Only that it’s correlated with age. It could have more to do with the times than anything. It could be that your right. But these statistics can’t lead one either direction. Statistics like these have limitations in how they can be interpreted.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
And there ya go again, saying everyone who doesn’t believe in God is a young whippersnapper :)[/quote]
I’ve posted this before but apparently you missed it:
In a 2006 Gallup Poll Regarding Belief In A Higher Power It Was Found
“Both Agnostics and Atheists are predominantly male. Age Atheists are young. Fully 55 percent are under age 35. Only 20 percent are 50 and over, as opposed to 37 percent of all Americans. Interestingly, Agnostics are older than Atheists, though still younger than the general population…”
The study also points out that most atheists are male. If you take the subject matter of this site and who the target consumer is it’s a small stretch to imagine that most (not all, never once said all) atheists on this site are young males.
[/quote]
You can’t say it’s because of age. Only that it’s correlated with age.[/quote]
I never said it was BECAUSE of age did I?
But if you dispute that the older you get the wiser you become (in most cases) then you’re younger than I thought:) For example how many times do you have a serious talk about politics and world affairs with a 12 year old? There are laws keeping young people from driving, drinking, voting and joining the military. Why do you think that is? Our forefathers even deemed that one must have reached the age of 35 before being able to run for President. And that was during a time when the average life expectancy was probably around 60 (or less). Age matters, when you get a little older you’ll see that Seriously, I don’t know many intelligent 44 year old people who think exactly as they did when they were 24.
I agree if you are a 20 something male atheist then these facts really don’t mean anything. I get, I get it.
There is a correlation between ice cream consumption and drowning. Does that mean that ice cream consumption is related to drowning?
Young males tend to be less happy than young female and older males tend to be happier than older females. Is it because of the age difference, or the different times the different age groups lived in, or what? That statistic in and of itself does not lead to any conclusions as to why that is. Same as the statistic you posted.
It could be that people are less likely to be atheists when they’re older because of wisdom like you seem to have suggested. It might not be. That statistic doesn’t tell us that either way. By the way, I’m curious about something. How much experience do you have in interpreting statistics at an academic and/or professional level?
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
There is a correlation between ice cream consumption and drowning. Does that mean that ice cream consumption is related to drowning?
Young males tend to be less happy than young female and older males tend to be happier than older females. Is it because of the age difference, or the different times the different age groups lived in, or what? That statistic in and of itself does not lead to any conclusions as to why that is. Same as the statistic you posted.[/quote]
Ha ha I never said it did. Are you protesting too much? Me thinks so.
LOL you’re a riot kid — you’ve attacked the message and now the messenger. Good boy scooter (ruffles hair) now on your way.
[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
[quote]swoleupinya wrote:
[quote]wfifer wrote:
For all of you talking about reason, how are you missing the huge leap you’re taking there?
You can’t reason that you have the ability to reason.
Of course that line of thinking is a dead end, but it illustrates a point.
I’m not saying that I don’t value any particular philosophy over another, but I defy any one of you to come up with a bullet-proof defense of knowledge.[/quote]
I think I have a very solid response to this, but I would like you to clarify your point first. [/quote]
You know I think wfifer brings up an excellent point and even though I am a theist I believe you will like this short video and the argument that John Lennox brings up against the materialist. Tell me what you think about it. Christianity and the tooth fairy - YouTube
his argumetn starts out good but fails when he brings in the christian god. If he had said that since we can thing rational thougts, there is a posibility that a rational superbeing have created us, but this is not making believing in any god anything else than a assumption.
actually this have not helped us get any further.
Still the most scientific claim we can make is this: We cant say if God exist or not, becuase there are no evidence to exam to prove or disprove his existence. agnostisism is the most scientific way to go.
[quote]florelius wrote:
<<< Still the most scientific claim we can make is this: We cant say if God exist or not, becuase there are no evidence to exam to prove or disprove his existence. agnostisism is the most scientific way to go.
[/quote]This is great!!! Keep em comin guys.
If I believe that there is an uncaused cause that cannot be known (don’t know if it’s a thing, being, framework that’s always been), and I believe that moral law comes from this uncaused cause in a similar way the laws of physics do, then what does that make me? Is that deism or just a more faith oriented type of atheism? Just a question of definitions really.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
Would you consider it foolish for someone to believe in Vishna…[/quote]
No. In the past I’ve voiced my respect for those of faith. For instance, despite your–and even Mak’s–diagnoses (see your most recent statements) of the faithful, I wouldn’t imply that his (Mak’s) hindu mother is insane.[/quote]
But what basis would you have for insisting your belief represents reality more than hers, since you both lack evidence?[/quote]
Personal revelation, theology, and faith. Do you frequently repeat the same questions knowing you’ll get the same answers? [/quote]
Only when you don’t address my point. I’ll try again.
Personal revelation, theology, and faith are not proof of anything. Why? Because millions of others use the same “evidence” to support their own beliefs, which directly contradict yours. Obviously, personal revelation, theology, and faith are useless as tools for determining WHAT IS REALLY TRUE.
Why do I keep repeating myself?
Because you refuse to acknowledge that all these other people are getting revelations that contradict yours. Are you closing your eyes to this, or are you dismissing it with a blanket assumption that their revelations are self-created, while yours are special and supernatural?