[quote]Makavali wrote:
<<< All you have done is quote scripture and ignored the point.[/quote]A penetrating analysis indeed. =] That’s exactly what I’ve done. Look, once you accept that the God of the bible is God indeed? Trivial matters like a virgin birth and whether men can be free, accountable and predestined all at the same time take care of themselves. [/quote]
I was addressing the assertion that science and religion are separate when they are undeniably intertwined.
Did you happen to read the last issue of that crazy far right religious rag National Geographic? It seems that archeologists have found King Davids tomb.
Many discoveries have given strong evidence that the Bible is quite accurate. But once again belief in God requires faith. Otherwise they wouldn’t call it “belief” in God. It would be called “knowledge” of God.
There really are not enough hours in a day. You guys are luring me into more areas here now and I’m still backed up with responses I promised to people forever ago.
I actually believe science and theology are related more closely than I think you do Zeb, but not at all the way guys like Mak do. I also believe that empirical evidences of my God abound and that in fact everything, rightly understood, is an empirical evidence of Him. I can argue evidence and am better informed on many things than I let on sometimes.
I think I know what you mean Zeb, but I would say that belief in, faith in, the gospel of the Christian scriptures leads to true knowledge of the God who is it’s author. And not knowledge as in the mere intellectual conviction that He is, but knowledge of the most intimate variety. Paul told the Ephesians after His famous exposition on marriage and the two becoming one in every way that he was actually talking about Christ and His church. The famous KJV translation “and Adam knew his wife and she bore him a son” is accurate.
That is the kind of intimacy with the creator of the universe that is offered in the redeeming work of Jesus of Nazareth who is also the only eternally begotten Son of the Father. We are adopted and indwelt with His Spirit making us one with Him and all for absolutely free to us. I’ve got some stuff to do. I’ll be back later.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
<<< All you have done is quote scripture and ignored the point.[/quote]A penetrating analysis indeed. =] That’s exactly what I’ve done. Look, once you accept that the God of the bible is God indeed? Trivial matters like a virgin birth and whether men can be free, accountable and predestined all at the same time take care of themselves.
I’ll give ya a good one and this will answer Brother Chris from a while back as well. The bible clearly states that God does not and in fact cannot change, either His mind or His being. (It also states that He was sorry He made man in Genesis Ch. 6, but that’s another story). How can a God who never changes now have His second person (let’s not even try that one now either) in heaven with a body that He once did not have? Especially when he is is not subject to time? (or space). HOW!!!
Here we have an omnipresent God who Jesus Himself said is a spirit, now confined to the body of an infant, but not really as we see later on… maybe. If fallen creaturely logic is the final arbiter then the gospel dies on the incarnation alone and I didn’t even scratch the surface. No trouble for me because I don’t take my fallen creaturely logic as the final arbiter of anything. It won’t do any good to point out, but have you ever even considered how arrogant and presumptuous that is? Whatever can’t fit into your puny pathetic little mind that skates through here in the blink of an historic eye cannot be true?
You might ask, “well then how can we know ANYTHING?.” I’m telling you how. When He installs as your most absolutely foundational presupposition His own unsearchable mind, only then can you factually know anything at all and in fact in a sense (reverently speaking) you then know everything because He lives His life though you. Everything is explained in Him… EVERYTHING… and you no longer have that disturbing unsettled sense that there really are no answers to ultimate questions.
Does this mean curiosity or the pursuit of advanced knowledge is thereby quenched? May it never be!!! On the contrary. They are infinitely enhanced because you now see them as the unavoidable reflection of the God you know and love instead of sterile, ultimately meaningless pieces of information that may or may not have originated in some comprehensively speculative and impersonal “singularity”. Genuine Christian regeneration is utterly trans-formative or a lie.
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Good post Tirib, all apparent contradictions and impossibilities are resolved in Christ. When I look at biological processes I can still see the beauty and purpose God has designed them with even though what we observe has been marred with sin. The furthest one can go with logic is to know that a god exist and some of his inherent properties yet the only way to know God and his character is to have him reveal himself to one. I have posted this promise God has recorded in the bible that he reveals himself to those who search after him with all their heart. Although I disagree with ZEB about faith being blind like or even how that faith is described in the bible. Faith in God is the most sure thing in the universe yet I disappoint myself in that I do not have enough of it.
Whoa… I just learned there was a part 3 today. Simply put, I cannot in good faith believe in God because I don’t see a god or gods as necessary for the existence of what is.
And mostly to Sloth:
I don’t think a lot of atheistic ideals and societal ideas are as effective as many religious ones because atheistic society hasn’t had as much practice in society making/continuing as religious societies have. A large reason why even though I’m atheist, I still look closely at books such as proverbs in the bible and look up beliefs from other religious systems.
What’s great about religious beliefs is that their moral values are built from thousands of years of observing society. That’s part of why I think Christianity is so successful. It takes the lessons and stories of many religions before it, modifies some of them, and adds some its own in and integrates them into one large book full of goodies.
I think the problem a lot of atheists have is a religion-a-phobia. Some are so hell-bent of dismantling religion that they can’t take any lessons from it.
[quote]ephrem wrote: On the subject of psychology and the assumption of self in regards to religion
As Tirubulus pointed out, religion [Christianity[ has nothing to gain from a deeper understanding of self. >>>[/quote]The indwelling presence of the designer along with His written Word provide not only the very deepest, but also the only authentic view of self that will ever exist.
Contrary to what you may think some useful statistical/observational data has been gleaned by even the most vicious God hating pagan psychology departments. On that level they provide some very solid empirical evidence for the gospel because they can’t help it. It’s when they start interpreting that the sin REALLY starts flowing.
Mental issues caused by verifiable and quantifiable physical defects fall under the field of medicine in my view and will never be what I’m referring to when disparaging “psychology”. Oh yeah, I never mentioned Freud once, but he was at one time a true icon in that world, but that was then.
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How would you classify this case? Religious madness, or plain madness?
[/quote]I don’t know enough about it to make any determination beyond the fact that a clear loosening of God’s common restraint on human sin has taken place. There is no such thing as Christian madness though plenty of religious atrocity has definitely occurred in history.
Since this thread is fresh and I don’t want to start a new thread, anyone here have good resources about the Nicene Creed? Im interested in knowing more about it.
[quote]forbes wrote:
Since this thread is fresh and I don’t want to start a new thread, anyone here have good resources about the Nicene Creed? Im interested in knowing more about it.
Anyways…carry on.[/quote]I’m always careful with wikipedia, but the article appears pretty good
[quote]Makavali wrote:
<<< All you have done is quote scripture and ignored the point.[/quote]A penetrating analysis indeed. =] That’s exactly what I’ve done. Look, once you accept that the God of the bible is God indeed? Trivial matters like a virgin birth and whether men can be free, accountable and predestined all at the same time take care of themselves. [/quote]
I was addressing the assertion that science and religion are separate when they are undeniably intertwined.[/quote]
If you believe in God then you have to believe Science is God’s operating system for our life and world and universe
[quote]forbes wrote:
Since this thread is fresh and I don’t want to start a new thread, anyone here have good resources about the Nicene Creed? Im interested in knowing more about it.
Anyways…carry on.[/quote]I’m always careful with wikipedia, but the article appears pretty good
What are you looking to find out exactly?
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More so its validity. Have you heard of Yusef Estes? He’s an islamic preacher (used to be christian) who talked about the Nicene Creed and that is the origin of the Trinity, not the Bible.
[quote]forbes wrote:
Since this thread is fresh and I don’t want to start a new thread, anyone here have good resources about the Nicene Creed? Im interested in knowing more about it.
Anyways…carry on.[/quote]I’m always careful with wikipedia, but the article appears pretty good
What are you looking to find out exactly?
[/quote]
More so its validity. Have you heard of Yusef Estes? He’s an islamic preacher (used to be christian) who talked about the Nicene Creed and that is the origin of the Trinity, not the Bible.
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