Perhaps more inclusively, happy holidays all!
Happy Holidays and Thanks for the wealth of info!
Age 44
last cycle was 12 weeks of: 400 mg test cyp & 250 units HCG
went fine
check bloods before and after
itās been 8 weeks (including pct) and jonesing to get back on
Havenāt check bloods again but feeling fine.
jump back in or wait?
going to bump to 12 weeks @ 500mg & add 50 mg anavar last 6 weeks
was thinking about going with hcg again during cycle since it seemed helpful last time; however, undecided
Suggestions, thoughts?
Happy holidays to all, and thanks to @physioLojik for all of your contributions to the community. Iāve attached a brief summary of my first cycle, which unplanned interruptions turned into something more like three mini-cycles due to unexpected travel overseas and the ensuing challenges in maintaining a consistent supply.
Given physioLojikās advice to let estrogen run high and avoid running aromatase inhibitors unless absolutely necessary, Iāll be interested to see where Iām at when bloodwork comes back over the next week. Iām perplexed (but pleasantly surprised) at the lack of any significant sides thus far.
Background. Age 40, 180 cm, 100 kg, bf 10%. I initially studied medicine towards an MD/PhD in pharmacology, and have closely followed developments in AAS, but never felt compelled to make the transition from natty to enhanced. The decision to pursue TRT, and my first cycle, finally came this year following bloodwork results confirming low T levels of 1.71 ng/ml.
Summary. My first 16 week cycle of test enanthate at 500 mg/week was cut short just shy of the halfway mark due to unexpected travels overseas. Following a brief interruption, an unexpected source yielded a few vials of test/NPP. In researching the supplier, I found an online thread mentioning bloodwork with complaints that the product line was seriously underdosed. I took higher doses to compensate for this eventuality, all the while watching closely for progress or negative sides to arise. The second supply ran out when I was still overseas. Bloodwork to help me time my PCT showed that the source was probably fully-dosed and good to go after allāmy T levels were off the charts fourteen days after my last pin, and they were still at the high end of the range two weeks later.
To ensure no further interruptions, I took steps to order raws, and set out to reboot my cycle where Iād left off once I was back home. As homebrew is so cost-effective, and Iād experienced zero major sides before curtailing the first cycleāeven when inadvertently taking higher dosesāI decided to give a shot to Dan Duchaineās high-dose first cycle protocol. From a starting point of 1/4 cc of 250 mg/ml test cyp ED (~437 mg/wk) I worked up to a total of 1750/1400/700 mg/wk of test cyp/NPP/tren ace.
Current cycle. 250 mg test cyp, 200 mg NPP, 100 mg tren ace ED.
Ancillaries. Aromasin, nolva and prami on-hand (unnecessary to date), omega-3 fish oil, garlic oil (lipids, blood pressure), L-carnitine (androgen receptor upregulation), metformin (insulin sensitivity), NAC and taurine (antioxidant support).
Mid-Cycle Report. Until my initial bloodwork came back, I thought Iād simply been working with seriously underdosed gear, but it would appear (?) that Iām just a good responder, with low aromatization and no severe sides. The biggest difference between the three mini-cycles (test, test/NPP, test/NPP/tren) is that my weight has largely stabilized due to the extreme recomp effects of the tren. Strength and definition is up and accelerating. No signs of gyno sensitivity or excess aromatization, no added water weight, no bloat whatsoever. Iām now six weeks into the third mini-cycle, and ordering a third round of bloodwork this week.
I wouldnāt ab initio have selected this advanced protocol at such an early stage, but staying flexible and adaptive gave me the opportunity to transform setbacks into a learning opportunity. I wouldnāt have known about my personal absence of sides at such high doses if I hadnāt increased to compensate for what I thought was underdosed gear. So long as thereās a continued absence of major sides, the protocol has worked well for me thus far, and Iāve long been curious to put some of Duchaineās more controversial ideas to the test.
I recently came across the following post, which helped contextualize the nature of my experience and the perplexing lack of significant sides. Iād welcome any further feedback, suggestions, or ideas.
I stuck with 600 mg for years, and one day tried 1000 mg. It was a huge difference, and I was on just test/deca. A lot of people cannot handle large doses. I know that I have issues with tren in high doses, yet deca/test/eq all seem to treat me well, even over 1000 mg.
Honestly, I donāt run anything with my cycles. No AIās, no DA, nothing. I just run my AAS/GH/slin and follow a healthy diet with plenty of cardio. Iāve never had a sore nipple, and Iāve used over 5 grams of combined AAS before. Never had any progesterone sides, just acne, anxiety, sweating, some hair loss and some sleeping issues.
I may be a diamond in the rough, but I have used about everything on the planet, and donāt even bother with trying to control anything that cannot be controlled with diet. My blood work was always worse on AIās, and caber made me feel like shit. I always have them on hand, but I honestly havenāt used anything of the sort in years. Iām on one of the largest cycles of my life right now, and I feel fantastic. BP/cholesterol is a little on the high end, but not high enough to be of a concern, and everything else has come back just fine.
* Amelioration of nandrolone decanoate-induced testicular and sperm toxicity in rats by taurine
@physioLojik what causes back pump? That feeling that your lower back is going to explode (when it gets bad). For me it usually happens on tren and I usually got it to go away with a lot of Aromasin.
Also, is the Tamoxifen only route ok when running Tren or Nandrolone?
Little bit late to the party, but happy holidays guys! This forum has been such a help to me and Iām sure many hundreds of other people. Thanks to all that have taken time to write and offer help and advice. Without this group I would really be fucked (;
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Thatās almost 4 grams of gear!
Are you taking everything ED or just the Tren Ace?
This is pretty shocking, that you can run 4 grams a week and have no sides. I dont think Iād run this for very much longer without coming back down to a TRT dose. Iām sure you feel like superman but its called āblast and cruiseā for a reason. You need to come back down and let your body re-stablize for a while. 250 mg of Test a week is more than enough for a cruise dose.
Iāve got a question, doc. So what kind of mental side effects would one potentially see if they were to employ T3 or T4 into a general cutting plan? I remember when I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder (waaaay back in ye olde days) the first test was for thyroid function. I have to imagine that amping up thyroid hormones, while effective for cutting, comes with some mental side effects, no?
Thanks for taking my call, Iāll take my answer off the air.
Hi physiolojik, had a question regarding my protocol and a bit of history regarding my current state.
I was put on TRT last year, routine urology protocol of 200mg every two weeks. As horrible as this dosing schedule was I felt on top of the world for 7 months. Then I started having massive panic attacks when Iād never had any before. My E2 was 47 but my urologist said that wasnāt the issue and took me off T cold turkey due to my symptoms. That was in January of this year and itās been hell ever since. Anxiety, intrusive thoughts, severe fatigue, depression.
I got the courage up to try TRT again in September and, after doing some research, went with a knowledgeable TRT clinic. They put me on eod shots of 30mg which made me have panic attacks again and then I was on 20mg EOD which made them stop. Things were looking up until I started having panic symptoms again 9 weeks into things. Iām now on 10mg ED injections. Itās only been two weeks and Iām on the rollercoaster of trying to get stable right now. Iām experiencing depression on and off, this is not my history and itās concerning to me. The clinic Iām with says 10mg ED is not enough and that Iām bound to feel hypogonadal at that dosage. They want me at 20mg ED.
My questions are: given that my SHBG is 16.5 on my most recent labwork. Would it be advisable to start a 20mg ED protocol as is being suggested? Or would I just end up with high E2 due to the low SHBG? Also, could the TRT withdrawal have permanently disrupted my endocrine system and this is why Iām not feeling as good as before on this new protocol?
What does this euphemism mean? Iāve never heard that one before
@studhammer Thanks for your input. Though I wouldnāt recommend it to everyone, you also seem to have a good tolerance for running high levels of androgens given that your own extended first cycle of test @1800 mg/wk turned out okay.
Are you taking everything ED or just the Tren Ace?
Everything ED ā 250 mg test cyp (1 cc), 200 mg NPP (2 cc), 100 mg tren ace (1 cc).
This is pretty shocking, that you can run 4 grams a week and have no sides
I was more than a little surprised myselfāand while I do feel nice and robust, no supermanāwhich is why I initially thought it more likely that the gear was simply bunk.
Another round of bloodwork is the first priority. Out of prudence, I only plan to stay at these levels long enough to get the bloodwork results before adjusting everything from there, with primary objectives being lean mass gain, recruitment of new cell nuclei, androgen receptor biogenesis and upregulation.
I do plan to stay on cycle long enough to build a stable foundation of muscle mass, which a medium chain ester like test cyp would call for a conservative minimum of twelve or so weeks of consistent training to lock the gains in. Contingent good results on upcoming bloodwork, Iād planned to continue out to a full 16 weeks.
Iām currently on week 6, having gradually built up to these doses over the last few weeks. Every day pinning really smooths out blood levels and seems key to reducing the hormone fluctuations that give rise to sides.
I donāt want to speak out of turn here. I have never supplemented with T3/T4. I deal with hyperthyroidism. I can however tell you if your levels get too high. The anxiety is unbearable. Your mental state goes to hell in a hand basket not to mention the physical effects.
I understand that you can regulate by supplementing, but if you go too far, it is a living hell.
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Itās like when someone calls into a radio show asking for advice and they decide theyāll take their answer off-air from the host, rather than stay on the line.
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OK, WHERE?!?!?? What are your injection sites and how often are you pinning the same spot?
I have always been super curious how people pin that much gear in a week.
Thatās exactly what I was wondering. Thank you.
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All of the spots. Current faves include VG, lats, delts. Buttery smooth. Calves, biceps still get some pip, but theyāll warm up soon enough. Injection site rotation is never a problem. Pins 25G 1", 26G 1/2" or 29G 1/2". Rotate every 10-12 days, could easily go higher if necessary.
A single 3-cc shot ED takes only seven of the available sites per week, leaving 1 ccāeasy to place sub-Q basically anywhere. Or go with two 2-cc shots, L and R. Just look at the multiple sites available in each of the larger muscle groups, or the number of sites available for insulin injections. If necessary, frequency or volume could go much higher than the current rotation schedule.
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Hi Physiolojik, I first wanted to thank you and let you know that I trully appreciate your contributions to this forum.
My question is about hCG on a test-only cycle. My understanding of the purpose of hCG is to keep the body producing testicular testosterone. Does this increase the level of blood test compared to a cycle without running hcg and should this have any effect on the weekly test dosage I inject?
There is no point to run hcg on cycle. Donāt believe the bs. Using hcg wont keep you producing appreciable test if you are on cycle. Your body isnāt dumb. Just run test and do some pct 
@riddle100
@decatest hey man I donāt know if youāve mentioned - what are your stats? That is a gargantuan amount of gear! Drastically more than Iāve ever used haha and I stay between 255-270.
Hi Doctor,
After natural bodybuilding for 2-3 years and putting on good muscle I decided it was time to get into the shape of my life for soccer as I was aspiring to make it professional and felt like being in excellent shape would really set my mind to achieve my goals. I returned to Canada to make money working construction so I could buy a car and travel around europe trying out for teams and getting to practice. Around May 2016 the diet and hardcore cardio I started. I basically ate nothing but vegetables with the odd piece of meat everyonce in a while, and just ate salad and drank black coffee and water.
After working 9 hours construction I went straight to practice with my friend for a good 2 hours followed by running around a track for an hour as fast as I could / HIIT training. I went from 176lbs at 5ā9āāā to 139lbs in about 1-1.5 months. I was getting lean for the first time and really started to put value into hardwork etc. This reflected onto my job where my coworkers told me repeatedly to take it easy or im going to wear myself out. One day I sat on the toilet and noticed I wasnt getting morning erections anymore. It did not bother me because I thought it was because of the diet and getting older. Eventually I quit my job after 2-3 months and returned to Europe. Anyways the next 3 months wear a blur up to december 2017, when I noticed I could not get an erection for masturbating, and one I eventually got one very little sperm came out. I even felt like my testicles shrunk.
After this 6 months I knew something was wrong and I needed to change. I immediately started eating again and gained the weight back however I noticed some more symptoms. I noticed I havenāt even had spontaneous erections in the last 2 years. Semen volume and force is still low, and there is no sensation in orgasm (good feeling) Testicles and Penis feel numb like rubber and and penis tip is cold/wet. I also developed stress incontinence. My eyes are dry, and I do not preduce precum nor armpit sweat, nor genital sweat! One time at work I even noticed some discharge from my nipples this only happened once or twice 1 year ago.
The doctors here donāt seem to believe me, please help as I dont know what to do anymore.
I have never taken any steroids or anything like that , just protein powder and occasional creatine. I am also not on TRT.
shbg 19 (18-54)
fsh 3.7 (1.5-12.4)
lh 5.0 (1.7-8.6)
e2 13 (11.5-43.2)
progesterone 0.12 (0-0.13)
total t 654
free test 2.56% (1.53-.2.88)
cortisol 481 (171-536)
acth 29.2 (0-46)
TSH 2.565 (0.35-4.94)
ft3 4.6 (2.9-4.9)
ft4 11.9 (9-19)
prolactin 301 (73-407)
DHT 220 (300-850)
DHEA-S 12,51 (4.34-12.2)
24 Hour Urine Cortisol: 77 (12-486)
Serum AM Cortisol came back elevated first time i tested it at 748 (171-536) second time it was in the high 400ās
Was this post workout?
Probable culprit, do you take 5a reductase inhibitors