Ask Moshe

This is a great thread, JB.

In simplist terms; what does it mean to be “Orthodox”?

Thanks.

Mufasa

This is a great thread, JB.

In simplist terms; what does it mean to be “Orthodox”?

Thanks.

Mufasa

Thanks for your answers Jewbacca :slight_smile:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
This is a great thread, JB.

[/quote]

Thank you. It depends on good questions, so keep them coming.

Orthodox believe that G-d gave Moses the whole Torah at Mount Sinai — the written Torah (the first five books of the Bible) and the Oral Torah. They believe that the Torah is true, that it has come down to us intact and unchanged. They attempt to observe the 613 mitzva to the best of our ability. (So we keep kosher, limit activities on the Sabbath, etc.)

There are several movements within Orthodoxy, Chasdim (“black hats”), Yeshivish, and Modern.

Modern look and dress like everyone else, but more conservatively, and with kippa. Chasdim are like the Lubavitchers, black hats, etc.

My wife’s family are Lubavitchers. My family (Israel) were what is called “haredi” or “dati,” depending on what family member you are talking about, which would roughly be somewhere between Chasidim and Modern Orthodox.

+++++

Another way to describe Orthodox is by stating what it is NOT: not Reform.

The Reform does not believe that the Torah was written by G-d. The movement accepts the critical theory of Biblical authorship: that the Torah was written by separate sources and redacted together. Reform Jews do not believe in observance of mitzva, but they seek to follow the values and ethics of Judaism, along with some of the practices and the culture.

In short, the Reform are Episcopalians who can’t join the Country Club.

What’s your take on Genesis, literalistic or other?

Do you consider it the first covenant between G-d and man?

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Just finished reading “The Fight For Jerusalem” and have gotten more interested in the Jewish faith. Where would you recommend starting? I have read the old testament several times, and am pretty familiar with it already.[/quote]

To answer your question, are you Jewish and not schooled, or not Jewish?[/quote]

Not Jewish.[/quote]

As a Gentile, I would recommend getting to understand your duties to G-d as a Gentile first.

Here:

FWIW, the Rambam (arguably the most respected Rabbi since the Diaspora), while he disagreed with key theological points of Christianity, considered Christianity to be a fine, ethical, and moral Noahadic religion.[/quote]

Interesting. What about mixed people? Does jewish just mean you have genetically jewish parents? Are there no reasons for a person to converts? If a person was godless and without a religion, but trying to find god, you would suggest they go elswhere?

Why dress in the full Orthodox clothing?

As others have already correctly stated, excellent thread, JB. Also good to see you posting in PWI again. Hope you stick around.

My question: Does Judaism contain a clearly delineated system of determining one’s salvation? Another angle of the same question: Is there some system for the forgiveness of sins beyond just personal prayer and sincerity?

To use an absurd example, (and assuming he was actually killed by Eva Braun, just to make it less complicated) is there some possibility that Adolph Hitler could make it to Heaven?

Guess it’d be pretty embarrassing for him once he got there, if he did. Can you imagine? “Sorry you guys,” would just not cut it, I’ll bet. :wink:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
As others have already correctly stated, excellent thread, JB. Also good to see you posting in PWI again. Hope you stick around.

My question: Does Judaism contain a clearly delineated system of determining one’s salvation? Another angle of the same question: Is there some system for the forgiveness of sins beyond just personal prayer and sincerity?

To use an absurd example, (and assuming he was actually killed by Eva Braun, just to make it less complicated) is there some possibility that Adolph Hitler could make it to Heaven?

Guess it’d be pretty embarrassing for him once he got there, if he did. Can you imagine? “Sorry you guys,” would just not cut it, I’ll bet. ;)[/quote]

i do not mean to step on JB’s thread. But Cortes’ question provokes a modification of vision.

Is there doctrine? And why presume that there is an original sin from which all must win salvation?

If “all the righteous have a part in the world to come,” then the question becomes, “what is the path of the righteous?”
As JB has said on a number of occasions, Torah is the “index” to the Law; it is therefore study and dispute and action that follow the Law that define righteousness.
There is not a universal list of dogmas or cosmology; so Hell is a Hellenic concept of dubious validity, the dogma of Resurrection was rejected by Karaites, etc. Instead, every doctrine or rule–and there are many of them–must have a basis in Law. (Even Rambam–Maimonides–had his contemporary critics in this.) And it is the discovery of Law that is both joy and obligation.

Often, extra-canonical writing is an attempt to reconcile the contemporary with the ancient. For example, elsewhere in this thread, Jeaton expressed an interest in Kabalah which. in short, is an attempt to answer Jewish tradition with European superstitions and cosmology and metaphysics. (And for Jeaton, I would suggest that Pirke Avot–The Ethics of the Fathers–is a far more rewarding experience.) Or Maimonides’ Guide for the Perplexed is his brilliant attempt to reconcile Torah and Greek science (i.e., Aristotle).
But it is the ceaseless study of the Law, and the contemplation of God’s will in it, that serve as the desired “system” toward salvation: the state that Man occupied in the Garden of Eden when he walked with God.

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
I am of the tribe of Levi, sub-set Kohanim. (As are most people with the name “Cohen” or the like.) They actually did a genetic study about this, which tied in with the tradition, following the Y-Chromosome. It shows with have a common male ancestor circa 3500 years ago. If you believe the Torah, that common male grand-pa would be Aaron, Moses’ brother.

[/quote]

I’ve read a little about the Kohanim gene and some of the studies being done on people claiming descent from the lost tribes. Interesting stuff.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
I am of the tribe of Levi, sub-set Kohanim. (As are most people with the name “Cohen” or the like.) They actually did a genetic study about this, which tied in with the tradition, following the Y-Chromosome. It shows with have a common male ancestor circa 3500 years ago. If you believe the Torah, that common male grand-pa would be Aaron, Moses’ brother.

[/quote]

I’ve read a little about the Kohanim gene and some of the studies being done on people claiming descent from the lost tribes. Interesting stuff.[/quote]

I guess we finally will get to know now whether the American Indians really are the lost tribes of Israel.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
I am of the tribe of Levi, sub-set Kohanim. (As are most people with the name “Cohen” or the like.) They actually did a genetic study about this, which tied in with the tradition, following the Y-Chromosome. It shows with have a common male ancestor circa 3500 years ago. If you believe the Torah, that common male grand-pa would be Aaron, Moses’ brother.

[/quote]

I’ve read a little about the Kohanim gene and some of the studies being done on people claiming descent from the lost tribes. Interesting stuff.[/quote]

I guess we finally will get to know now whether the American Indians really are the lost tribes of Israel. [/quote]

Already proven they are not.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Interesting. What about mixed people? Does jewish just mean you have genetically jewish parents?
[/quote]

A person is Jewish by having a Jewish mother. Father is irrelevant, except to decide tribe.

There is no such thing as “half Jewish” or any of the nonsense you hear. You could theoretically not be Jewish even if you had 3 of 4 grandparents be Jewish (i.e., your maternal grandmother is the one that counts).

[quote]
Are there no reasons for a person to converts? If a person was godless and without a religion, but trying to find god, you would suggest they go elswhere?[/quote]

No, anyone is free to convert, and it is a fundamental tenant of Judaism that a convert is no less a Jewish person that a person born Jewish.

Conversion to Judaism is just discouraged as unnecessary, and a grave burden.

I tried to find the Youtube clip where Homer Simpson converted to Judaism. Correctly, he was turned down 3 times, and the Rabbi accepted him finally.

If you have a burning desire to convert, we can certainly arrange it. Let me see if I have my flint knife . . . . .

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
I am of the tribe of Levi, sub-set Kohanim. (As are most people with the name “Cohen” or the like.) They actually did a genetic study about this, which tied in with the tradition, following the Y-Chromosome. It shows with have a common male ancestor circa 3500 years ago. If you believe the Torah, that common male grand-pa would be Aaron, Moses’ brother.

[/quote]

I’ve read a little about the Kohanim gene and some of the studies being done on people claiming descent from the lost tribes. Interesting stuff.[/quote]

I guess we finally will get to know now whether the American Indians really are the lost tribes of Israel. [/quote]

Already proven they are not.[/quote]

That’s the joke

Can’t you be ethnically Jewish though?

Christian apologist ray comfort identifies himself as such.

[quote]optheta wrote:
Why dress in the full Orthodox clothing?[/quote]

I suspect you mean Hasidic Clothing – stupid hat, black suit. Essentially, that dress is tradition — some European king somewhere decided Jews had to wear black and have a stupid hat so people could spot us (akin to a yellow star armband later).

The response was “oh yeah,” watch this, and they hammed up the dress, intentionally mocking the noble dress of the king. It stuck.

“Orthodox” (as in, required) dress is a kippa (or any hat) and tzitzit (or tassle), generally on undergarmets.

The purpose of the kippa is to remind us we are subservient to G-d and to literally keep him on our minds.

The tzitzit (which I wear on an undershirt) stem from the command to keep G-d’s laws on the doorpost of your home and the fringes of your clothing (aka everywhere).

The specific reason they appear on undergarmets is one tallit represents the commandment against adultery and is a “last check” against committing adultery.

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Can’t you be ethnically Jewish though?

Christian apologist ray comfort identifies himself as such. [/quote]

“Jewish According to Hitler” who gathered up anyone who had a Jewish grandparent?

Culturally? Sure. For immigration purposes in Israel? Sure. Religiously? No.

Judaism is binary: you are Jewish, or you are not, and once Jewish, always Jewish.

If this guy had a Jewish mother and “converted” to Christianity, he’s still Jewish, just a heretic.

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
And why presume that there is an original sin from which all must win salvation?[/quote]

Original sin is a Christian concept not found in Judaism.

Similarly, Judiasm is not dualistic with an evil antogonist of the Devil. You can actually see this in the book of Job, where the Devil is free to walk and commune with G-d.

As an aside, discussing non-Jewish people, Job is generally considered to be a gentile, and among the finest men who ever lived.

Another question here from me.

Are the samaritarian people considered jewish?

[quote]florelius wrote:
Another question here from me.

Are the samaritarian people considered jewish? [/quote]

They are considered Jewish by the State of Israel and, I believe, by the certain (but not all) of the religious authorities.

To bring this back some of the issues discussed on the thread, the issue there is many of them were “half Jewish” (dad only) descendants from Babylonian wives and (they and their families) were expelled from Jerusalem upon the return from captivity.*

They also have a highly-altered Torah.

As an aside, since they have a different Temple (not the Temple Mount), they still practice the Passover offerings. You can see them on Youtube.

Edit:

  • I do want to note they claim descent from two or more of the Northern Tribes of Israel, but that is disputed. They did a DNA analysis, and it appears they are (shock) a mix of Jewish and Assyrian, just like the Bible says. Mostly, they were forcibly converted to Islam and are probably the only legitimately “native” muslim residents of Nablis.