Armenia Genocide Bill

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
“Judenschlagfest”? What have you been smoking? Is watching South Park your historical education of choice?
And “Hitler’s willing executioners” is a piece of worthless scribble.

[/quote]

Sarcasm doesn’t translate well. That you know South Park (which I do not) reveals a secret vice of yours, eh?

But did you read the book? Was there not a discussion in the German press about it, about accuracy of fact and flow? If its premise is disputable, it was discussed. But, contrary to another poster here, I do not know that its historical facts have been refuted.

I happen to agree that, in English, it is tendencious, disorganized, and reads like a sociology thesis. Perhaps the German edition was even worse. But it provoked for some, thought, and clearly for others, another round of denial, obfuscation, and exculpation.

Really discussing with you guys is nigh impossible.
That I know South Park and you not says shit.
Why don’t you try to sound intelligent through arguments, not through always beating the same dead horse.

Germany is extremely thin skinned about “the war” and especially the “the jews”. Writing a book like that crap Goldhagen did and provoking a fuss means exactly this: zero.
The “premise” is: Germans were (are?) evil. The scientific authenticity even less eloquent. It was a holocaust-porno, something that was designed to provoke, comparable to youtube- documentions about how dumb Americans and Bush are and that he is their rightful president.
Writing such a “thoughtful” drivel, with the right connections and within the right position (both of which Goldhagen enjoyed), is just a cheap and effective commercial coup. Perhaps a more fitting example would be if Ahmadinejad wrote a “revealing” book about international semitism.

Antisemitism was enormously widespread, if you’d actually travel around Eurasia & Arabia and meet some older people, you’d be in for some mighty surprise. Jews in Germany are pretty comfortable and influential in Germany today, they don’t seem to share your thoughts.

Continuously beating the dead nazi-horse like you guys here do, is like I’d be accusing US of racism and writing about use of the widespread “n” word. Now that would be clever, right?

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Really discussing with you guys is nigh impossible.
That I know South Park and you not says shit.
Why don’t you try to sound intelligent through arguments, not through always beating the same dead horse.

Germany is extremely thin skinned about “the war” and especially the “the jews”. Writing a book like that crap Goldhagen did and provoking a fuss means exactly this: zero.
The “premise” is: Germans were (are?) evil. The scientific authenticity even less eloquent. It was a holocaust-porno, something that was designed to provoke, comparable to youtube- documentions about how dumb Americans and Bush are and that he is their rightful president.
Writing such a “thoughtful” drivel, with the right connections and within the right position (both of which Goldhagen enjoyed), is just a cheap and effective commercial coup. Perhaps a more fitting example would be if Ahmadinejad wrote a “revealing” book about international semitism.

Antisemitism was enormously widespread, if you’d actually travel around Eurasia & Arabia and meet some older people, you’d be in for some mighty surprise. Jews in Germany are pretty comfortable and influential in Germany today, they don’t seem to share your thoughts.

Continuously beating the dead nazi-horse like you guys here do, is like I’d be accusing US of racism and writing about use of the widespread “n” word. Now that would be clever, right?
[/quote]

So I guess you didn’t read the book. Thin-skinned? Seems that way. But why would you take my feeble comments so personally?
(You don’t know me, the extent of my education, or of my travels, or of my connection to Germany. Why presume? I do not presume, for example, that the few German Jews of your personal acquaintance would feel free in sharing their own stories, or their own honest views, with you, however comfortable and “influential” you may find them.)

This thread is about Congress, political convenience and manipulation, national amnesia, and the Armenian Genocide. Goldhagen’s book is tangentially of interest, because it argues that common folks do awful things, that they even volunteer for it; that the German Army was not innocent, and that people labor mightily to hide the past.

Whatever the merits of this particular book, it speaks to issue of genocides–Armenian, Rwandan, Cambodian, Darfur–and not to the interests of Germans alone. Genocide is not yet a “dead horse;” perhaps it is a horse you wish to be dead.

Now, then, where in this have I wronged you personally, or the German people? Thin skinned? History is not fate, so why should one feel trapped by it?

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Continuously beating the dead nazi-horse like you guys here do, is like I’d be accusing US of racism and writing about use of the widespread “n” word. Now that would be clever, right?
[/quote]

Someone did that. I read it right here.

It’s OK that there are extremist Muslims because there are racists in the US.

That is a paraphrase of the ridiculous arguments the American haters posted.

This is worth reviewing, summarizes a lot of the (rational) discussion above:

www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-ferguson15oct15,0,2244478.column?coll=la-opinion-center

For convenience, I include the last paragraphs:

“If we hope to stop future genocides, we need to admit to those horrific acts of the past,” argued Rep. Brad Sherman, a California Democrat and a sponsor of the resolution. Really? My sense is that all the resolutions in the world about past genocides will do precisely nothing to stop the next one.

“And if – let’s just suppose – the next genocide happens in Iraq, and the United States finds itself impotent to prevent it, the blame will lie as much with this posturing and irresponsible Congress as with anyone.”

Now, then…I will look forward to seeing (rational) discussion regarding Yugoslavia on the “Eurobashing” thread.