[quote]9500 RPM wrote:
This just in: Sarah Palin says some dumb shit. Also, water is hard to kick up a hill. More at 11.[/quote]
And the funniest part of that her IQ is probably a good 30 points higher than yours.
Funny stuff keep it coming…
when a politician says some “dumb shit”, there is basically two possibilities :
either he is dumb himself or he think that his electorate is dumb and need to hear dumb shit.
the latter is actually even more frightening than the former.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SUPER-T wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SUPER-T wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SUPER-T wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SUPER-T wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SUPER-T wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Death panels exist now , the Insurance companies run them [/quote]
Maybe, but you can opt out of insurance now. When we get to a one payer system, which is all out govt run health care, we will have no choice.[/quote]
OK so you need a very expensive procedure , your Insurance company refuses to cover it , so you quit paying your premium , Who wins , I say the Insurance company[/quote]
If it saves your life, you win, whether you have to pay out of pocket or not. People theese days seem to think that health care is a right, and they are wrong. All you hear is I have this condition and i can’t get coverage. Stop whinning and work something out with the doc to pay monthly payments. Is there really that many cases where people get dropped by ins for no reason?
[/quote]
You missed my point, you did not get the treatment , you will die , but you can quit sending them a premium , Yeah a Doctor is going to extend a 1/4 million credit to a homeless person .I do not think health care is a right but I think it should be
[/quote]
So you are actually in favor of govt healthcare, who should pay?[/quote]
Yes I am in favor of Socialized Medicine , I think the tax payer should pay, I think we could quit dominating the world militarily and cancel the war on drugs, with the money we save we could adequately finance Health Care and Education for all Residents and still balance the budget .
The for profit Health Care has all the costs that a Public Option would have and in addition it has to show a profit. That profit is called extra cost .
[/quote]
That kind of plan has been tried and always fails. Canada is trying to go to a private system, and there are stories of people dieing while on a waiting list for an appy. Why should I have to pay for others healthcare? The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other peoples money. If you take profit incentive out by taxing higher, people will quit making so much money, then there are no more rich people to take the brunt of the tax.[/quote]
I think your theory is flawed , socialism as a Government is flawed. Just as Capitalism as a Government is flawed. I say take the best from all forms of government
here is a story about a person that will die because he has no health Insurance
http://www.kpho.com/news/25811486/detail.html[/quote]
This is the same story you posted before, and as I pointed out before, this guy is on medicaid. Medicaid, as I am sure you know, is socialized medicine that you say you want. If he had private ins. this might not have happened. This proves my point that death panels excist.[/quote]
The problem lies in the Medical community will not treat him with out getting paid. We have limited social program that does not cover him , just as he can not afford nor will an insurance company cover him now . The problem is broader than a LIMITED social program . The problem lies in a broken system
[/quote]
So “the system is broken” because there are only limited resources.
[/quote]
WE agree
[quote]SUPER-T wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SUPER-T wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SUPER-T wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SUPER-T wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SUPER-T wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SUPER-T wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Death panels exist now , the Insurance companies run them [/quote]
Maybe, but you can opt out of insurance now. When we get to a one payer system, which is all out govt run health care, we will have no choice.[/quote]
OK so you need a very expensive procedure , your Insurance company refuses to cover it , so you quit paying your premium , Who wins , I say the Insurance company[/quote]
If it saves your life, you win, whether you have to pay out of pocket or not. People theese days seem to think that health care is a right, and they are wrong. All you hear is I have this condition and i can’t get coverage. Stop whinning and work something out with the doc to pay monthly payments. Is there really that many cases where people get dropped by ins for no reason?
[/quote]
You missed my point, you did not get the treatment , you will die , but you can quit sending them a premium , Yeah a Doctor is going to extend a 1/4 million credit to a homeless person .I do not think health care is a right but I think it should be
[/quote]
So you are actually in favor of govt healthcare, who should pay?[/quote]
Yes I am in favor of Socialized Medicine , I think the tax payer should pay, I think we could quit dominating the world militarily and cancel the war on drugs, with the money we save we could adequately finance Health Care and Education for all Residents and still balance the budget .
The for profit Health Care has all the costs that a Public Option would have and in addition it has to show a profit. That profit is called extra cost .
[/quote]
That kind of plan has been tried and always fails. Canada is trying to go to a private system, and there are stories of people dieing while on a waiting list for an appy. Why should I have to pay for others healthcare? The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other peoples money. If you take profit incentive out by taxing higher, people will quit making so much money, then there are no more rich people to take the brunt of the tax.[/quote]
I think your theory is flawed , socialism as a Government is flawed. Just as Capitalism as a Government is flawed. I say take the best from all forms of government
here is a story about a person that will die because he has no health Insurance
http://www.kpho.com/news/25811486/detail.html[/quote]
This is the same story you posted before, and as I pointed out before, this guy is on medicaid. Medicaid, as I am sure you know, is socialized medicine that you say you want. If he had private ins. this might not have happened. This proves my point that death panels excist.[/quote]
The problem lies in the Medical community will not treat him with out getting paid. We have limited social program that does not cover him , just as he can not afford nor will an insurance company cover him now . The problem is broader than a LIMITED social program . The problem lies in a broken system
[/quote]
Would you do your work without getting paid? of course not. I am sure if he does a little research he could probaly find a grant or something to help him out. As far as no getting covered by private ins now, most companies will cover you, but will not pay for pre excisting for the first year, and why should they woould you buy a car when you knew the motor and trannie would have to be replaced. I am curious how you know he cant get covered because the article said nothing about that, maybe he should have got ins when he could have.[/quote]
Yes i would work with out getting paid . I would and have ,I do so as much as I could afford .
Maybe you could sell your services of finding coverage for these people with pre existing
conditions
I am assuming he can not find coverage , why would some one insure him , it would be like buying a car with a bad motor:)
[quote]orion wrote:
So “the system is broken” because there are only limited resources.
[/quote]
Thus far a remarkably civil debate.
As orion implies, there are ALWAYS only limited resources for any system. I do not agree that this bare fact inexorably shows that the “system is broken”, because this would be a universal problem for every system b/c all of them have limited resources. Sadly this will never change. I do not trust the gov’t to make better, less wasteful and more productive use of MY money than the private sector.
There are many problems in the HC industry today and I won’t deny or defend that. However, if there is one thing I have seen over and over and over and over ad nauseum it is that gov’t is the MOST wasteful, MOST inefficient at damn near everything except killing and oppressing people (via organized armed forces). At least when it comes to finances.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SUPER-T wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SUPER-T wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SUPER-T wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SUPER-T wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SUPER-T wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Death panels exist now , the Insurance companies run them [/quote]
Maybe, but you can opt out of insurance now. When we get to a one payer system, which is all out govt run health care, we will have no choice.[/quote]
OK so you need a very expensive procedure , your Insurance company refuses to cover it , so you quit paying your premium , Who wins , I say the Insurance company[/quote]
If it saves your life, you win, whether you have to pay out of pocket or not. People theese days seem to think that health care is a right, and they are wrong. All you hear is I have this condition and i can’t get coverage. Stop whinning and work something out with the doc to pay monthly payments. Is there really that many cases where people get dropped by ins for no reason?
[/quote]
You missed my point, you did not get the treatment , you will die , but you can quit sending them a premium , Yeah a Doctor is going to extend a 1/4 million credit to a homeless person .I do not think health care is a right but I think it should be
[/quote]
So you are actually in favor of govt healthcare, who should pay?[/quote]
Yes I am in favor of Socialized Medicine , I think the tax payer should pay, I think we could quit dominating the world militarily and cancel the war on drugs, with the money we save we could adequately finance Health Care and Education for all Residents and still balance the budget .
The for profit Health Care has all the costs that a Public Option would have and in addition it has to show a profit. That profit is called extra cost .
[/quote]
That kind of plan has been tried and always fails. Canada is trying to go to a private system, and there are stories of people dieing while on a waiting list for an appy. Why should I have to pay for others healthcare? The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other peoples money. If you take profit incentive out by taxing higher, people will quit making so much money, then there are no more rich people to take the brunt of the tax.[/quote]
I think your theory is flawed , socialism as a Government is flawed. Just as Capitalism as a Government is flawed. I say take the best from all forms of government
here is a story about a person that will die because he has no health Insurance
http://www.kpho.com/news/25811486/detail.html[/quote]
This is the same story you posted before, and as I pointed out before, this guy is on medicaid. Medicaid, as I am sure you know, is socialized medicine that you say you want. If he had private ins. this might not have happened. This proves my point that death panels excist.[/quote]
The problem lies in the Medical community will not treat him with out getting paid. We have limited social program that does not cover him , just as he can not afford nor will an insurance company cover him now . The problem is broader than a LIMITED social program . The problem lies in a broken system
[/quote]
So “the system is broken” because there are only limited resources.
[/quote]
WE agree[/quote]
No, we dont, because resources are scarce, always.
You might take thatz up with your God or the universe in general, but there always will be people who receive less than stellar service, in whatever area.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]9500 RPM wrote:
This just in: Sarah Palin says some dumb shit. Also, water is hard to kick up a hill. More at 11.[/quote]
And the funniest part of that her IQ is probably a good 30 points higher than yours.
Funny stuff keep it coming…
[/quote]
That would put her at around 180.
[quote]kamui wrote:
when a politician says some “dumb shit”, there is basically two possibilities :
either he is dumb himself or he think that his electorate is dumb and need to hear dumb shit.
the latter is actually even more frightening than the former.[/quote]
Please, lecture a pol sci student about politics. I’m sure you’ve a wealth of information to blow me away with.
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Kevorkian[/quote]
There is a reason why he went to jail so many times. Euthanasia is unethical in dealing with people. [/quote]
But forcing people to stay alive when they are suffering greatly, have no quality of life and no chance of a recovery so someone can milk the insurance system is ethical?
He wasn’t helping people die who were repairable. Those people had no hope of survival, they just wanted to end their suffering. Don’t try to characterize what he did as something it wasn’t.[/quote]
Not true. He killed at least one that was not terminally ill but merely sffered from extreme depression.
I believe in the right to choose death but he stepped WAY over the line.[/quote]
Wow…one person in how many? At least that person wanted to die and could do it in a safe environment. At least that person knew it would work. When you attempt suicide you don’t know if it’s going to work or not (depending on the method).
Sifu, thank you for commenting. I was going to say the same thing. I don’t get why, if I’m in constant pain from a terminal illness, I have to stay alive and whither away. Give me something that will put me out of my misery and allow my family to go on.
[/quote]
Wow, he murdered at least one. Grant him sainthood!
[/quote]
It’s not murder if the person wanted to die. [/quote]
Wrong. Go back to square one.
[quote]SUPER-T wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Death panels exist now , the Insurance companies run them [/quote]
Not quite. Insurance companies do have a say but doctors still have ways around it.
Death is inevitable, cost of care at end of life is always a factor in decisions, just as the comfort of the patient is considered. As it should be.[/quote]
I do think that when people have good insurance the Medical comunnity tries to keep people alive , even when death is inevitable . On the same hand I contend there are young healthy people that die because the have no way to pay for expensive health care [/quote]
Agree with the first part, not so much with the second.
Hospitals will pile up every test and treatment on someone with good insurance, they do this to make extra money to cover those that don’t pay the bills.
They rarely let people die due to a lack of money but they usually will not replace a hip or knee unless the person can pay for it.[/quote]
http://www.kpho.com/news/25811486/detail.html
[/quote]
Wow, you just proved my point. There are death panels in govt healthcare. The story you linked was about medicade, not a private ins company. I bet he wishes he would have gotten off the free ride a little sooner. No disrespect intended for the deceased, just making a point.
[/quote]
I noticed the same thing. Either way, transplants are a special case, not sure why the guy was denied. Was he a raging alcoholic? Was he a bad candidate? News reports like that are very sketchy.
I bet if he showed up at the hospital with a gun shot wound they would have treated it regardless of insurance status.
^Law prevents hospitals from turning away life threatening injuries from the ER due to lack of insurance/ability to pay.
oh, you’re a pol sci student.
great.
just like my younger brother.
lol
FYI
i studied in some of the best “Classes Preparatoires aux Grandes Ecoles” and universities in France.
got the equivalent of a PhD in political philosophy and another one in Cultural Anthropology.
my own teachers were direct students of Foucault, Deleuze, Derrida, Althusser, Badiou, Sartre, Heidegger…
and i’m a teacher now.
first lesson :
next time you feel the compulsive urge to show arrogance, try to remember your age and your post count.
oh, and btw my post wasn’t directly addressed to you. and i wasn’t even contradicting you.
Welcome to PWI
[quote]kamui wrote:
oh, you’re a pol sci student.
great.
just like my younger brother.
lol
FYI
i studied in some of the best “Classes Preparatoires aux Grandes Ecoles” and universities in France.
got the equivalent of a PhD in political philosophy and another one in Cultural Anthropology.
my own teachers were direct students of Foucault, Deleuze, Derrida, Althusser, Badiou, Sartre, Heidegger…
and i’m a teacher now.
first lesson :
next time you feel the compulsive urge to show arrogance, try to remember your age and your post count.
oh, and btw my post wasn’t directly addressed to you. and i wasn’t even contradicting you.
Welcome to PWI
[/quote]
Also, you have sixty million dollars, a two foot penis, and a 250GT. Isn’t the Internet nice?
Since when has the fact that you are a political science student meant shit about politics?
pic unrelated (unless you meets its sarcastic standard, then congratulations you win!)
over all I would say that thisiscusion has remained remarkably civil
[quote]DixiesFinest wrote:
^Law prevents hospitals from turning away life threatening injuries from the ER due to lack of insurance/ability to pay.[/quote]
The way the hospital would handle some one with no means to pay the bill , would be the equivalant of giving some one a bandaid for a broken bone
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]DixiesFinest wrote:
^Law prevents hospitals from turning away life threatening injuries from the ER due to lack of insurance/ability to pay.[/quote]
The way the hospital would handle some one with no means to pay the bill , would be the equivalant of giving some one a bandaid for a broken bone [/quote]
You say that, have you worked in a hospital or experienced this?
I did work at a hospital, and I am not going to say “like omg they were all basically Christ healing the lame” but by no means were the poor and injured tossed out, they received good treatment for their injuries.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]DixiesFinest wrote:
^Law prevents hospitals from turning away life threatening injuries from the ER due to lack of insurance/ability to pay.[/quote]
The way the hospital would handle some one with no means to pay the bill , would be the equivalant of giving some one a bandaid for a broken bone [/quote]
Pure unadulterated Horse puckey.
I was run over by a tanker truck, with no insurance at the time. I got a helluva lot more than a bandaid. 6 figures worth, actually.
[quote]DixiesFinest wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]DixiesFinest wrote:
^Law prevents hospitals from turning away life threatening injuries from the ER due to lack of insurance/ability to pay.[/quote]
The way the hospital would handle some one with no means to pay the bill , would be the equivalant of giving some one a bandaid for a broken bone [/quote]
You say that, have you worked in a hospital or experienced this?
I did work at a hospital, and I am not going to say “like omg they were all basically Christ healing the lame” but by no means were the poor and injured tossed out, they received good treatment for their injuries.[/quote]
I looked , but could not find the 60 minutes Article where a Los Angeles hospital was dumping indigent patients out on the street . It happens all the time , If you have good insurance they will spend a million dollars to keep an 80 year old smoker alive . I know this for a fact.
[quote]Racer377 wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]DixiesFinest wrote:
^Law prevents hospitals from turning away life threatening injuries from the ER due to lack of insurance/ability to pay.[/quote]
The way the hospital would handle some one with no means to pay the bill , would be the equivalant of giving some one a bandaid for a broken bone [/quote]
Pure unadulterated Horse puckey.
I was run over by a tanker truck, with no insurance at the time. I got a helluva lot more than a bandaid. 6 figures worth, actually.
[/quote]
I would consider you lucky