[quote]Kailash wrote:
This isn’t our natural state. Thomas Hobbes never apparantly considered that humanity is a highly evolved mammalian social species that benefits most from cooperation (like wild primates or wolves). He saw us as at odds like warring insect colonies.
Hobbes was a damn fool, but his line of thought has infected the power elite since time immemorial, who thrive on such self-justification for their evil.
Read “The Human Zoo” by Desmond Morris, and get some insight into why humanity is this way. Thesis: It’s our unnatural environment, and we’re throwing feces like a caged monkey. He provides examples of animals in zoos compared to their natural state, which relates closely to modern human behavior.
Then maybe you can come back here and post about human nature with some actual authority, instead of party line for a degraded status quo.[/quote]
But to get back to your natural state 95 % of all human beings had to die…
Tell me how to do that… Your ideal state call for a genocide of an unheard of magnitude…
We would benefit most from cooperation, alas we are not pulling the strings, our genes do, and they do not benefit from such behaviour…
[quote]orion wrote:
We would benefit most from cooperation, alas we are not pulling the strings, our genes do, and they do not benefit from such behaviour…[/quote]
So do you suggest that this present, unsustainable existence be termed genetic “thriving”? It’s all toxic madness on a massive scale, and about to come tumbling down, genome and all.
Not that genocide or a mass die-off is necessary for a return to the truly civilized lifestyle prescribed by necessity. I believe a gradual, subtle and evolutionary solution is not only possible - but inevitable - in all things.
You do know that there is evedince of warfare even in the higher primates? Vicious, terrible, baby killing, fights that destroy entire toops of apes. The study of early man suggest that he fought every other hominid he bumped into. Homosapiens probably killed and rapes neaderthal out of existence. There is no happy place where everyone gets along and there is nothing but peace. If it did exist it would be completely unprepared for the nomadic killers who would eventually bump into it and kill them all. For a good history lesson go read about what the Mongols did to the ancient afghan city of bhalk.
“I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate.
And I can picture us attacking that world, because they’d never expect it.”
–Jack Handy Deep Thoughts
[quote]Kailash wrote:
orion wrote:
We would benefit most from cooperation, alas we are not pulling the strings, our genes do, and they do not benefit from such behaviour…
So do you suggest that this present, unsustainable existence be termed genetic “thriving”? It’s all toxic madness on a massive scale, and about to come tumbling down, genome and all.
Not that genocide or a mass die-off is necessary for a return to the truly civilized lifestyle prescribed by necessity. I believe a gradual, subtle and evolutionary solution is not only possible - but inevitable - in all things.[/quote]
“I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate.
And I can picture us attacking that world, because they’d never expect it.”
–Jack Handy Deep Thoughts[/quote]
thats fukin great. the funniest quote i have seen in a while.
I think I’ll be the first one on T-Nation to ever admit fault: I didn’t realize there was so much I didn’t know about the war, and I was trying damn hard to speak in generalities anyways.
So if anyone has any good books to touch up on this subject–and not just books that support YOUR cause/opinions–please tell me about them.
And again, not just books that support your ideas. I don’t take war lightly, and I don’t share the mentality some do that it’s sometimes “necessary,” so I’d like to read something that is gung-ho-pro-US-the-bastards-got-what-they-deserved and something that is more liberal, pro-peace.
[quote]danmaftei wrote:
I think I’ll be the first one on T-Nation to ever admit fault: I didn’t realize there was so much I didn’t know about the war, and I was trying damn hard to speak in generalities anyways.
So if anyone has any good books to touch up on this subject–and not just books that support YOUR cause/opinions–please tell me about them.
And again, not just books that support your ideas. I don’t take war lightly, and I don’t share the mentality some do that it’s sometimes “necessary,” so I’d like to read something that is gung-ho-pro-US-the-bastards-got-what-they-deserved and something that is more liberal, pro-peace.
Thanks.[/quote]
Howard Zinn’s “People’s History of the United States”.
Also, anything by Stephen Ambrose, or Rich Atkinson (Army at Dawn)