[quote]dmaddox wrote:
Almost all of the pieces came off of Japanese bikes. More than 110 hp.[/quote]
I don’t quite know what HP numbers have to do with it. You’re not using much of the power at all on such a curvy stretch of road. And I’ve seen plenty of Killboy shots of cruisers being idiots too.
james
[quote]atypical1 wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
Almost all of the pieces came off of Japanese bikes. More than 110 hp.[/quote]
I don’t quite know what HP numbers have to do with it. You’re not using much of the power at all on such a curvy stretch of road. And I’ve seen plenty of Killboy shots of cruisers being idiots too.
james
[/quote]
Did you look at the picture of the tree? Almost all Japanese pieces and one tricycle. This is going to be a blanket statement and very stereotypical. I see most Japanese bike riders are younger and do more stupid things. Younger means less experience, so they will push the envelope of what their bikes can do on the twisties. Older riders are usually on the cruisers and know to not take as many risks. With that said people do stupid things at all age levels and do not respect the bikes.
HP makes a lot of difference. You come out of a corner and pull back on the throttle a bit too much and that bike will jump out from under you. Stock V-Twins really do not jump out of a turn like a crotch rocket. This is my experience with both bikes.
Young and bullet proof with a lot of HP small margin for error. Older with wife and kids at home with less HP larger margin for error compared to the first.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]atypical1 wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
Almost all of the pieces came off of Japanese bikes. More than 110 hp.[/quote]
I don’t quite know what HP numbers have to do with it. You’re not using much of the power at all on such a curvy stretch of road. And I’ve seen plenty of Killboy shots of cruisers being idiots too.
james
[/quote]
Did you look at the picture of the tree? Almost all Japanese pieces and one tricycle. This is going to be a blanket statement and very stereotypical. I see most Japanese bike riders are younger and do more stupid things. Younger means less experience, so they will push the envelope of what their bikes can do on the twisties. Older riders are usually on the cruisers and know to not take as many risks. With that said people do stupid things at all age levels and do not respect the bikes.
HP makes a lot of difference. You come out of a corner and pull back on the throttle a bit too much and that bike will jump out from under you. Stock V-Twins really do not jump out of a turn like a crotch rocket. This is my experience with both bikes.
Young and bullet proof with a lot of HP small margin for error. Older with wife and kids at home with less HP larger margin for error compared to the first.
[/quote]
On a bike torque is actually more significant than HP. Regardless of the make, ( I love my American Iron), you have to know your limitations and ride within them. I recommend for all riders to take a rider safety course, or for seasoned riders to do the police course. By practicing how far your bike can lean…how fast you can corner…how fast you can slow down…what it feels like to ride the pegs (or floorboards and muffler guards in my case [see pic]), where to keep your eyes, (i.e. how not to run into bicycles while going around dead man’s corner), etc., etc.
There are idiots on every kind of bike and again, regardless of the kind of bike you ride, we are all part of a unique fraternity that loves the freedom that our ride gives us. Ride what you like but develop your skill and you will enjoy the ride more and so will the people riding with you. Also the time to practice your skills and push your limits is not while you have a passenger…notice my wife is NOT on the bike with me. Most bikes, even the big cruisers, are capable of much more than we give them credit for. Probably the best rider to ever ride the Tail of the Dragon was a guy who did “Yellow Wolf Productions”. He rode a big yellow goldwing and filmed people riding the dragon. If you are afraid then your not having fun…practice until you are confident and then you will enjoy the adrenal rush that comes with slaying the dragon and any other challenging road with lots of twisties.
I ride Harley’s because its what I want to ride, (and because my wife won’t be seen on anything else), so ride what you want but ride it well.
Here’s another pic of the “Tree of Shame” at Deals Gap. There are bike parts, car parts, and maybe a few body parts…
This is at the resort at the end of the Tale of the Dragon…Hwy 129
EZ,
The sound of the Vance and Hines definitely gets my attention. We put the Vance and Hines on my girlfriend’s bike. I have the Rhinehart true duals on mine. The gap sounds exciting. Last summer we were riding on Gore pass and met a guy from Illinios, he finished the ride with us and when we stopped for refreshments he had a lot of stories about the gap. I am pretty sure he said he runs it almost every summer with different groups from Illinios. That is part of the fraternity I really enjoy. Out and about you meet all sorts of interesting people with great stories.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
Young and bullet proof with a lot of HP small margin for error. Older with wife and kids at home with less HP larger margin for error compared to the first.
[/quote]
You can’t really argue with this. I love sport bikes more than cruisers, and even think in many cases they can be safer because you can maneuver way better, but having the power to go faster than a speeding bullet and also having the control NOT to do it is something that usually won’t hit the average guy under 25.
I’ve talked to at least eight or nine bike accidents patients in the last three years at my job. All but one were older dudes on big V-twins with a mid life crisis bike. Hardly scientific I know but it did surprise me. I was expecting more younger guys.
I’m NOT by any means saying folks on v-twins are terrible riders so please don’t anyone get there chaps in a bunch. Experience or lack of it is the underlying problem not the type of bike it seems. I could be wrong but this is what I’ve seem with my own eyes.
[quote]bond james bond wrote:
I’ve talked to at least eight or nine bike accidents patients in the last three years at my job. All but one were older dudes on big V-twins with a mid life crisis bike. Hardly scientific I know but it did surprise me. I was expecting more younger guys.
I’m NOT by any means saying folks on v-twins are terrible riders so please don’t anyone get there chaps in a bunch. Experience or lack of it is the underlying problem not the type of bike it seems. I could be wrong but this is what I’ve seen with my own eyes.
[/quote]
Like I said, I see the sport bikes as actually safer many times because you can get out of situations quickly.
My accident wasn’t even a fault on my part.
If someone loses it on a sport bike it is often because someone in a car fucked them up or they were blasting it way beyond their skill level.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]bond james bond wrote:
I’ve talked to at least eight or nine bike accidents patients in the last three years at my job. All but one were older dudes on big V-twins with a mid life crisis bike. Hardly scientific I know but it did surprise me. I was expecting more younger guys.
I’m NOT by any means saying folks on v-twins are terrible riders so please don’t anyone get there chaps in a bunch. Experience or lack of it is the underlying problem not the type of bike it seems. I could be wrong but this is what I’ve seen with my own eyes.
[/quote]
Like I said, I see the sport bikes as actually safer many times because you can get out of situations quickly.
My accident wasn’t even a fault on my part.
If someone loses it on a sport bike it is often because someone in a car fucked them up or they were blasting it way beyond their skill level.[/quote]
I ride a little bit, and the reason I don’t ride more is because other drivers really freak me out when I’m on a bike, thats a really good point.
[quote]bond james bond wrote:
I’ve talked to at least eight or nine bike accidents patients in the last three years at my job. All but one were older dudes on big V-twins with a mid life crisis bike. Hardly scientific I know but it did surprise me. I was expecting more younger guys.
I’m NOT by any means saying folks on v-twins are terrible riders so please don’t anyone get there chaps in a bunch. Experience or lack of it is the underlying problem not the type of bike it seems. I could be wrong but this is what I’ve seem with my own eyes.
[/quote]
My wife works in Transplant, and the nickname they have for motorcycles is donorcycles. The fact she has allowed me to ride is a miracle, but I am safe and my head is on a swivel all the time. If you are not looking at me you do not see me.
I took the beginners rider safety course and I recommend everyone take it.
I don’t think that sportbikes are any more dangerous than cruisers. I think what you see is that many younger riders choose sportbikes simply because they are cheaper than cruisers and cruisers have an “older” image associated with them. BJB had a great point about the mid-life crises bikes and the injury rates with those. But it’s not the bike that’s causing the problems it’s the lack of experience and possibly the lack of reflexes.
I’ve got a contrary view than many of you do in that I don’t think there’s really any crashes that are out of my control. If I hit a patch of gravel mid-turn then that’s my fault for not taking a line that allowed me to see through it or took it too fast to react to changes. If someone pulls out in front of me and I hit them then that’s my fault to for not anticipating it. The thing with riding that’s so much different than with cars is that you have to pay attention twice as hard and you’ve got to be working what if scenarios and exit strategies all the time. Literally every time I get on my bike here someone cuts into my lane or cuts me off. I’ve had people look me in the eye and still get in my lane and cut me off. It’s just par for the course. But I’ve always got my next moves in mind and I’ve always got a plan worked out for different routes through a situation.
Way too many people get complacent when they ride and aren’t thinking about the what ifs or expect people to not cut them off or not to get into their lane. They have an expectation of “this is my spot in the lane” just like you would in a car. I think a better approach is to think of the entire road as usable and be willing to break the law if it means saving yourself. It’s not legal in other places but I’ve done my share of lane splitting in other states simply because it was safer for me to do so.
Bike placement helps too. Lot’s of people ride in the middle of the lane. I ride on the edge so that I can see around cars and slide between them when I need to. Lane sharing here in California has really, really helped me with practicing my exit strategy.
There’s a LOT you can do to protect yourself while riding. That being said, it’s an inherently more dangerous form of transportation and sport. Certainly more dangerous than sitting at home. But where’s the fun in that?
james
[quote]atypical1 wrote:
I don’t think that sportbikes are any more dangerous than cruisers. I think what you see is that many younger riders choose sportbikes simply because they are cheaper than cruisers and cruisers have an “older” image associated with them. BJB had a great point about the mid-life crises bikes and the injury rates with those. But it’s not the bike that’s causing the problems it’s the lack of experience and possibly the lack of reflexes.
I’ve got a contrary view than many of you do in that I don’t think there’s really any crashes that are out of my control. If I hit a patch of gravel mid-turn then that’s my fault for not taking a line that allowed me to see through it or took it too fast to react to changes. If someone pulls out in front of me and I hit them then that’s my fault to for not anticipating it. The thing with riding that’s so much different than with cars is that you have to pay attention twice as hard and you’ve got to be working what if scenarios and exit strategies all the time. Literally every time I get on my bike here someone cuts into my lane or cuts me off. I’ve had people look me in the eye and still get in my lane and cut me off. It’s just par for the course. But I’ve always got my next moves in mind and I’ve always got a plan worked out for different routes through a situation.
Way too many people get complacent when they ride and aren’t thinking about the what ifs or expect people to not cut them off or not to get into their lane. They have an expectation of “this is my spot in the lane” just like you would in a car. I think a better approach is to think of the entire road as usable and be willing to break the law if it means saving yourself. It’s not legal in other places but I’ve done my share of lane splitting in other states simply because it was safer for me to do so.
Bike placement helps too. Lot’s of people ride in the middle of the lane. I ride on the edge so that I can see around cars and slide between them when I need to. Lane sharing here in California has really, really helped me with practicing my exit strategy.
There’s a LOT you can do to protect yourself while riding. That being said, it’s an inherently more dangerous form of transportation and sport. Certainly more dangerous than sitting at home. But where’s the fun in that?
james[/quote]
x2
EZ, like you said, good advice. Had a few friends crash and they each had booze on board. My rule was 1 drink per stop, now pretty much no drinking if riding the bike. I know there are plenty of people who have a few and ride just fine, I am not that good. I also used to find it a bit frustrating when they could not ride past a bar, you never get anywhere quick that way. I also usually am carrying a gun so no booze seems more prudent.
the result - was a high side flier—
bounced my full helmet head on ground and smashed my hip and right arm. lucky for me, i flexed in mid-air and the the ground broke when my arm hit it! 
truth- thereafter my confidence for the day was shattered! i got up and kept learning and riding though.
today, it was nice out, i figured fuck it, have fun, be humble and practice the stuff i learned yesterday! only stay calm and enjoy. I did great on the test and passed w/ flying colors!!!
no harley to start for me, i will be getting a little bike, think harley sportster only cheaper knock off. and practicing for a while in empty lots…i will become a good and safe rider. thereafter i’ll graduate to a harley…likely the 883 to start, although i saw a soft tail slim, blacked out w. shorty pipes that looked fucking awesome!!!
either way…i’m in! love it.
no way will i get a nice bike like a harley to start and set it dwon w/ some BS learning lessons…it’s inevitable to set it down but spinning out from rider error is a silly way to fucking up a beautiful bike.
[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
bounced my full helmet head on ground and smashed my hip and right arm. lucky for me, i flexed in mid-air and the the ground broke when my arm hit it! :)[/quote]
Get a new helmet as that one’s done for.
Glad to hear that you had a good time in spite of the get off. It’s definitely an addictive pastime.
Why not get a HD if you want one first? You can find used 883s out there and they aren’t expensive to own or repair.
james
u suppose you are right…new is just under 8k. i make enough to buy new w/out problems but out of respect for whatever bla bla swirling in my head i figure start less then thereafter it might hold more “value” in my mind…aka let my learned skill set as it forms be my motivation for then, thereafter, getting a harley.
friend mentioned an 81 nighthawk as his started bike. i’ll do my research and please, i’m open to insight/opinions. i get/understand that the “what and why” are highly subjective/variable.
that is what makes this sport to cool – varied motivation and interests but common love. much like training.
[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
u suppose you are right…new is just under 8k. i make enough to buy new w/out problems but out of respect for whatever bla bla swirling in my head i figure start less then thereafter it might hold more “value” in my mind…aka let my learned skill set as it forms be my motivation for then, thereafter, getting a harley.
friend mentioned an 81 nighthawk as his started bike. i’ll do my research and please, i’m open to insight/opinions. i get/understand that the “what and why” are highly subjective/variable.
that is what makes this sport to cool – varied motivation and interests but common love. much like training.[/quote]
Congrats on graduating from the class and surviving the crash. What kind of bike you get depends on what kind of riding you want to do. You may not even know at this point as that will evolve with time and with your growing love for riding. My suggestion is to ride as many different bikes as you can and see what fits you. I would also recommend something you can ride around town AND take on the open road. Also there is no law that says you can’t own more than one bike. I love my Road King for going to Rallies and for shorter rides…one or two day trips. But for the long hauls we have an HD Ultra Classic CVO with the biggest tour pack you can get, heated seats, cup holders, etc., everything to make the ride as comfortable as possible for the wife…I want to keep her happy and riding with me. If you want someone on the bike with you, make sure you get a comfortable, safe, passenger seat…there’s nothing better than having your biker babe’s legs wrapped around you all day on your bike!
[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
u suppose you are right…new is just under 8k. i make enough to buy new w/out problems but out of respect for whatever bla bla swirling in my head i figure start less then thereafter it might hold more “value” in my mind…aka let my learned skill set as it forms be my motivation for then, thereafter, getting a harley.
[/quote]
I would avoid the Sportster if you plan on going out on a highway or interstate.
I had a buddy that started out on a Honda Shadow (750 cc I believe). After riding that bike for 2 years he decided it was time for a Harley and bought the 883 thinking it was a step up…
Turns out that although the displacement was larger the bike preformed about the same but had a smaller (4 gallon) tank. Poor guy had to stop every 150 miles to fill it up, which is okay for city riding but a total pain in the ass for touring. And for the right price Harley offered to put a larger tank on the bike but you might as well just buy a bigger bike if you are going to spend that kind of coin.
[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
first time on a bike ever yesterday…been taking the Harley safe rider class. i rode for damn near 7hrs yesterday in the absolute fucking pouring rain! as i got more and more comfortable w/ how things work, i swerved, fucked up my friction zone, went berserker on the throttle, spun out my back tire, freaked out, squeezed the shit of my brake…
the result - was a high side flier—
bounced my full helmet head on ground and smashed my hip and right arm. lucky for me, i flexed in mid-air and the the ground broke when my arm hit it!
truth- thereafter my confidence for the day was shattered! i got up and kept learning and riding though.
today, it was nice out, i figured fuck it, have fun, be humble and practice the stuff i learned yesterday! only stay calm and enjoy. I did great on the test and passed w/ flying colors!!!
no harley to start for me, i will be getting a little bike, think harley sportster only cheaper knock off. and practicing for a while in empty lots…i will become a good and safe rider. thereafter i’ll graduate to a harley…likely the 883 to start, although i saw a soft tail slim, blacked out w. shorty pipes that looked fucking awesome!!!
either way…i’m in! love it.
no way will i get a nice bike like a harley to start and set it dwon w/ some BS learning lessons…it’s inevitable to set it down but spinning out from rider error is a silly way to fucking up a beautiful bike.[/quote]
Awesome. If you want a cruiser, I recommend a late model Japanese bike that’s been down before. They can be had super cheap and don’t lose value when you put it down again.
