[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]mse2us wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Since I can’t get our resident Catholic apologist to explain his meaning of the origin of sin and death (unless Pat can help me out here) let’s switch tracks…can anyone explain the Islamic origins of sin and death?[/quote]
Man allowed sin into the world by his own freewill, and death followed as a result. Because of this decision, we have become the battle ground between good and evil. [/quote]
But according to the bible, man (technically woman first) allowed sin into the world because God put a forbidden tree within reach, then allowed a demon (in the form of a snake) to convince them to eat the forbidden fruit. Keep in mind that God, being all knowing, knew exactly what was going to happen. Following this original sin, God not only punished Adam and Eve, but the rest of humanity forever.
Does this sound like the act of a loving God?
In criminal law, entrapment is when a law enforcement agent induces a person to commit an offense which the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit.[1] In many jurisdictions, entrapment is a possible defense against criminal liability.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment[/quote]
What God did in the Garden is the furthest thing from entrapment. Nor did God make it burdensome for his creation to follow his one restriction. Entrapment would be God saying that of all the trees of the garden you can not eat except that one tree on the far end of the garden. If they had to pass many restricted trees to eat at one specific tree that could be entrapment. Or if God said there were a total of four trees to eat from located in different parts of the garden that would be burdensome. Instead God said that Adam and Eve could eat from all of the trees of the Garden until satisfied except for the one tree. So this wasn’t entrapment because there were apparently many more trees they could eat from besides the one restricted tree and this wasn’t burdensome because they could eat from any other tree as many times as they wanted except for the tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad.
God imposed this restriction to see if his newly created beings with free will would listen to a simple restriction of not eating from one tree. The tree named knowledge of good and bad means that the fruit would symbolize that the eater comes to a knowledge that enables him to decide for himself what is good or what is bad for man. This restriction would test man’s obedience and devotion to God. If you’re a loving parent who has kids I’m sure you’d agree that you have the right to set restrictions in your house and you’d expect your kids to listen. Now parents usually don’t set restrictions to test their childrens love but the situation with Adam and Eve was a little different. These were newly created beings so God as the Sovereign Lord of the universe had the right to test his newly created beings to see if they would listen. He imposed no hardship with the restriction.
The fruit on the tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad was no different then the fruit from the other trees. Because Eve did not desire the actual fruit on that tree. She desired what Satan said would happen if she ate from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad. Satan slyly asked Eve at Genesis 3:1 “Is it really so that God said YOU must not eat from every tree of the garden?” If that were true then you would have a case for entrapment. Eve clearly stated what the real restriction was which was being allowed to eat from any tree except the Tree of Knowledge of God and Bad and eating from the tree will incur death. Now what happens next is key to understanding why God has allowed the world to continue the way it has for millineums and why he allows suffering to exist. At Genesis 3:4,5 Satan states "At this the serpent said to the woman: "YOU positively will not die. 5 For God knows that in the very day of YOUR eating from it YOUR eyes are bound to be opened and YOU are bound to be like God, KNOWING good and bad." He asserted that eating fruit from the restricted tree would result, not in death, but in enlightenment and godlike ability to determine for oneself whether a thing was good or bad. This is what Eve desired and she let this improper desire build and began to covet something that rightly belonged to God. God as her SovereignÃ?¢??his ability and prerogative to determine what is good and what is bad for his creatures. When God approached Adam after he sinned Adam did not ask for forgiveness instead he tried to place the blame by saying “the woman you gave me.” God had no choice but to impose the penalty that he clearly stated to Adam after he created him which was eternal death. Adam and Eve were no longer perfect and this imperfection along with the penalty of death were passed onto all their descendants due to the laws of genetics. But God provided a means to undue this sin that was passed onto us.
Two issues were raised here. First, Satan made an assault on God’s truthfulness and goodness. He challenged the rightfulness and righteousness of God’s Sovereignty. By calling God a liar who withholds good from his subjects, Satan charged God with being a bad ruler. God’s name was now slandered. That’s when the spirit creature became Satan the Devil which means Resistor the Slanderer. The second issue was whether humans could rule themselves or know what is good or bad apart from God. These issues were brought up before all creation: the angels in heaven and the two humans. They had to be settled. God could not have killed Satan because if someone accuses you of something bad and you immediately kills that person it appears that you’re killing him to silence him. Taking this action will cause you to look guilty. Or if God would have just killed all that were guilty and started over again the issues that were raised would not have been settled and they would have still been hanging in the air to be raised again at a later point. How God handled this rebellion would greatly affect all of the angels watching and eventually all intelligent creatures. The only way this could be settled was to allow time to pass and see if man could rule or determine what was good and bad for himself by allowing man over time to try various types of human rule and self-government to see if man can make things betting under Satan’s influence. The passing of time would also afford the opportunity for humans to choose who they would follow: God’s rule given to humans by various means throughout history and is now by God’s word the Bible or by choosing to follow and put ones hope and trust in human governments influenced by Satan. God has allowed time to pass to make sure that the issues could be thoroughly and completely settled beyond a reasonable doubt.
Right after this rebellion God stated the first prophecy in the Bible at Genesis 3:15 which was to produce a seed that would kill Satan and undo the effects caused by the sin we inherited from Adam. Through Jesus and his Kingdom he told us to pray for God will fulfill his original purpose which is a planet full of perfect humans.
The above doesn’t really explain why God allows suffering but since this post is long I’ll stop here.
[/quote]
It’s indeed good to be reminded that there are those like you that believe these things literally occurred. I’m just not sure what to do with that reminder and I often wonder how I could gain financially from your condition…oh wait, that’s right, build a church and profit. By the way, you didn’t attend law school did you? Your legalese is tortured. [/quote]
Oh no you again. Obviously I didn’t attend law school because if I had my legalese would would not be “tortured.” Why are you even here? Why do you even have an interest in a religious thread? Do you hope that someone will say something that will help you have faith in the Bible or do you just like to point fingers laughing at the people who believe in the Bible and then chime in every once in a while and remind us of how gullible we are? We all know that Bodyguard is an agnostic or whatever you claim to be so why even waste space on this thread with you opinion? Your non-religious opinion does not matter.
