i just know that your not supposed to go over 4 doses a day…i don’t think 3 doses…spaced 4 hours apart is really that much…
its not like im on all the time…maybe twice a year
ive always been pretty tolerant to stims…i never get rapid heart rate,sweating, jitters…anything like that…
Adrenal exhaustion?
Thermogenic supplements cause the adrenal glands to release adrenaline. Of course, the exact same thing happens in response to the normal stress of daily living, and when you exercise, and when you eat a meal, and when you go outside in cold weather, etc., etc., etc.
Obesity researchers have never found a single incidence of “adrenal exhaustion” in all their studies on ECA.
Long term side effects of ephedrine include decreased libido. Maybe you should back off the high dosage you are taking.
[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
Adrenal exhaustion?
Thermogenic supplements cause the adrenal glands to release adrenaline. Of course, the exact same thing happens in response to the normal stress of daily living, and when you exercise, and when you eat a meal, and when you go outside in cold weather, etc., etc., etc.
Obesity researchers have never found a single incidence of “adrenal exhaustion” in all their studies on ECA.
[/quote]
is this like the brilliant research that used to say AAS didn’t give any advantage in muscular growth and strength?
where these ‘obesity researchers’ being funded by companies selling ECA stacks?
thermogenic supplements cause no more release of adrenaline than ‘normal stress of daily living’? you must have a VERY stressful life…I know for myself that the use of ephedrine causes a MUCH higher fight/flight response than my normal stress of daily living…
[quote]DPH wrote:
Dizzle wrote:
for me im quite tolerant to stimulants so i’ll pyramid the 6 wks something like this:
wk.1 - 200mg caffenie, 25mg eph.
wk.2 - 400mg caff, 50 eph.
wk.3-4 - 600mg caff, 75 eph
wk. 5 - 400caff, 50 eph
wk. 6 - 200caff, 25 eph
you’re quite tolerant because you take way too much of it…
taking ephedrine to loose weight is a poor decision…just eat a couple of hundred less calories per day and save your adrenal glands for when you need them…
unless you’re a serious bodybuilder in the last weeks before a competition, this cycle is excessive…
six weeks of the above cycle and your adrenal glands will be shot to shit…[/quote]
Unless he’s very sensitive to it, then no he won’t. The standard recommendation from research is 20mgE/200mgC three times a day, which most of his cycle is below. If a person can tolerate it, EC is probably the best legal fat burner you can get.
Please do a search next time as I know this topic has been answered several times in the last few months.
How is anyone using ephedra? I thought it was banned? (it has never been legal in Australia). Is it legal still in some states, or something?
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
How is anyone using ephedra? I thought it was banned? (it has never been legal in Australia). Is it legal still in some states, or something?
[/quote]
Think there are times when its available combined with other products, for example
guaifenesin, something which gives a productive cough and loosens mucus. I don’t know the legality of it in the US though, seems some eph compounds are legal in some states.
In the UK you can still get something called Chest Eze, each tablet contains
Theophyline Ph Eur 100mg, Ephedrine Hydrochloride Ph Eur 18.31mg, Caffeine Ph Eur 30mg. As its got theophylline in it, its not for everyone, even more so than Ephedrine/Caffeine. Seems also to have an increased anoretic effect over regular ECA stacks, even if you take just one tablet.
You could be staring down your favourite dessert after not eating for 6 hrs and just not be arsed about eating it.
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
How is anyone using ephedra? I thought it was banned? (it has never been legal in Australia). Is it legal still in some states, or something?
[/quote]
In Canada it is legal as long as they dosage is no more than 8mg/tablet and the supplier can only put something like 50 in a bottle.
I have used it in the past and I found it worked well but currently I don’t find I need it, just a large coffee will get me up right now. It’s nice to know I can still get it if I decide to use it again…and it’s cheap.
[quote]big69penisman wrote:
Unless he’s very sensitive to it, then no he won’t.
[/quote]
nonsense…
anyone who takes caffine and ephedrine (at the outlined dosage) everyday for six weeks and then stops will feel like shit…
I never said it didn’t work, in fact I think that it works quite well…but, unless he plans on competing, he’d be better off adjusting his diet than relying on EC to loose fat…
25mg ephedrine/200mg caffine three times a day (or more even) everyday for six weeks leading up to a competition is great for someone with already low bodyfat to get at ‘hard to reach’ fat…but for the average Joe looking for long term bodyfat composition changes, diet adjustments would be a better option in my opinion…
[quote]DPH wrote:
big69penisman wrote:
Unless he’s very sensitive to it, then no he won’t.
nonsense…
[/quote]
what’s nonsense? That he won’t feel fatigue? You can speak for him? I’ve taken for a year+ in the past, no magic fatigue.
Bullshit. I’ve stopped and felt fine.
[quote]
The standard recommendation from research is 20mgE/200mgC three times a day, which most of his cycle is below. If a person can tolerate it, EC is probably the best legal fat burner you can get.
I never said it didn’t work, in fact I think that it works quite well…but, unless he plans on competing, he’d be better off adjusting his diet than relying on EC to loose fat…
25mg ephedrine/200mg caffine three times a day (or more even) everyday for six weeks leading up to a competition is great for someone with already low bodyfat to get at ‘hard to reach’ fat…but for the average Joe looking for long term bodyfat composition changes, diet adjustments would be a better option in my opinion…[/quote]
No one said you said it didn’t work. I was adressing your adrenal fatigue as fact thing. No shit, people should of course make adjustments, that’s why they’re called supplements.
Obviously you haven’t read any of the research on EC or you wouldn’t have said what you did about ‘for average joe’.
[quote]big69penisman wrote:
what’s nonsense? That he won’t feel fatigue? You can speak for him? I’ve taken for a year+ in the past, no magic fatigue.
Bullshit. I’ve stopped and felt fine.
[/quote]
you took ephedrine+caffine stack multiple times a day for over a year and then stopped cold turkey and you felt just as charged up to lift as when you were on? I find this highly dubious (aka you’re full of shit)…
[quote]
No one said you said it didn’t work. I was adressing your adrenal fatigue as fact thing. No shit, people should of course make adjustments, that’s why they’re called supplements.
Obviously you haven’t read any of the research on EC or you wouldn’t have said what you did about ‘for average joe’. [/quote]
the research says EC stacks are a better plan than diet adjustments for the ‘average joe’ long term? again, unless the ‘research’ was done by people being paid by EC stack selling companies I find this highly dubious…shit, have there even been any legitimate long term research on EC stacks?
[quote]DPH wrote:
big69penisman wrote:
Unless he’s very sensitive to it, then no he won’t.
nonsense…
anyone who takes caffine and ephedrine (at the outlined dosage) everyday for six weeks and then stops will feel like shit…
The standard recommendation from research is 20mgE/200mgC three times a day, which most of his cycle is below. If a person can tolerate it, EC is probably the best legal fat burner you can get.
I never said it didn’t work, in fact I think that it works quite well…but, unless he plans on competing, he’d be better off adjusting his diet than relying on EC to loose fat…
25mg ephedrine/200mg caffine three times a day (or more even) everyday for six weeks leading up to a competition is great for someone with already low bodyfat to get at ‘hard to reach’ fat…but for the average Joe looking for long term bodyfat composition changes, diet adjustments would be a better option in my opinion…[/quote]
I think it can be useful for anybody starting with reasonably low levels of bodyfat. They drop a few more % points get truly lean and gradually wean themselves off of it. Most I’ve known who have done this have maintained with no problems. There was no rebound. They just didn’t lose anymore. But they didn’t need to. Diet and training should still be top-notch both on an EC or ECA stack and after stopping.
[quote]DPH wrote:
big69penisman wrote:
what’s nonsense? That he won’t feel fatigue? You can speak for him? I’ve taken for a year+ in the past, no magic fatigue.
Bullshit. I’ve stopped and felt fine.
you took ephedrine+caffine stack multiple times a day for over a year and then stopped cold turkey and you felt just as charged up to lift as when you were on? I find this highly dubious (aka you’re full of shit)…
No one said you said it didn’t work. I was adressing your adrenal fatigue as fact thing. No shit, people should of course make adjustments, that’s why they’re called supplements.
Obviously you haven’t read any of the research on EC or you wouldn’t have said what you did about ‘for average joe’.
the research says EC stacks are a better plan than diet adjustments for the ‘average joe’ long term? again, unless the ‘research’ was done by people being paid by EC stack selling companies I find this highly dubious…shit, have there even been any legitimate long term research on EC stacks?[/quote]
They’re not mutually exclusive. EC will not be effective if training and diet is not good. It can simply aid an already solid program. No different really than a supplement like Carbolin 19. It can help increase muscle gains but you still have to be eating and training properly for it to have an impact.
[quote]Dizzle wrote:
for me im quite tolerant to stimulants so i’ll pyramid the 6 wks something like this:
wk.1 - 200mg caffenie, 25mg eph.
wk.2 - 400mg caff, 50 eph.
wk.3-4 - 600mg caff, 75 eph
wk. 5 - 400caff, 50 eph
wk. 6 - 200caff, 25 eph
[/quote]
I would say this is a good way to cycle it, although week 3 and 4 would get ya shakinnnnn.
Do you take everyday? I’ve always just taken them every other day so I never get too used to them, maybe can prolong the effects then.
[quote]DPH wrote:
big69penisman wrote:
what’s nonsense? That he won’t feel fatigue? You can speak for him? I’ve taken for a year+ in the past, no magic fatigue.
Bullshit. I’ve stopped and felt fine.
you took ephedrine+caffine stack multiple times a day for over a year and then stopped cold turkey and you felt just as charged up to lift as when you were on? I find this highly dubious (aka you’re full of shit)…
No one said you said it didn’t work. I was adressing your adrenal fatigue as fact thing. No shit, people should of course make adjustments, that’s why they’re called supplements.
Obviously you haven’t read any of the research on EC or you wouldn’t have said what you did about ‘for average joe’.
the research says EC stacks are a better plan than diet adjustments for the ‘average joe’ long term? again, unless the ‘research’ was done by people being paid by EC stack selling companies I find this highly dubious…shit, have there even been any legitimate long term research on EC stacks?[/quote]
Why would you take it if right after you stop taking it you feel nothing?? Wouldn’t it just be a waste of your money then. I sure feel it on my off days, as I only take it every other day, but usually a coffee gets me going. You feel on top of the world the days you’re on it, jacked up! Then kind of kewl the days you don’t. Great for getting it going and suppressing appetite, but as stated you still have to watch diet and train balls to wall.
Adding Power Drive to EC pre-workout is unreal, you have to try it to believe it.
[quote]DPH wrote:
you took ephedrine+caffine stack multiple times a day for over a year and then stopped cold turkey and you felt just as charged up to lift as when you were on? I find this highly dubious (aka you’re full of shit)…
[/QUOTE]
no, jackass, I was saying there was no ‘adrenal crash’. And yes, I was fine as the stimulatory effect wears off after about a month, but the thermogenic effects do not.
[quote]
No one said you said it didn’t work. I was adressing your adrenal fatigue as fact thing. No shit, people should of course make adjustments, that’s why they’re called supplements.
Obviously you haven’t read any of the research on EC or you wouldn’t have said what you did about ‘for average joe’.
the research says EC stacks are a better plan than diet adjustments for the ‘average joe’ long term? again, unless the ‘research’ was done by people being paid by EC stack selling companies I find this highly dubious…shit, have there even been any legitimate long term research on EC stacks?[/quote]
I forgot how you have to spell shit out to dumbasses. Good way of twisting one thing and not listening to what I said.
Right above what you think you’re quoting I said people should make adjustments to their diet and that EC was a supplement, meaning in addition to. So how you get that I’m inferring that EC should be used instead of fixing their diet is retarded. But since I have to spell it out for you I will.
Most of the research on EC has been in obese to average people. It has been shown to work. Short term and long term. In other words, it will work just as well for the ‘average joe’ as it will for the leaner guy.
Should everyone use it? No, they should always assess tolerance and see if they can tolerate it. Not everyone can. But those who can and use it intelligently will benefit.
You asked for long term studies. Do a search for ephedrine or ephedra here. I’ve posted a few studies concerning long term use.
[quote]big69penisman wrote:
no, jackass, I was saying there was no ‘adrenal crash’. And yes, I was fine as the stimulatory effect wears off after about a month, but the thermogenic effects do not.
[/quote]
the effects of the drug wear off after no more than twenty-four hours…your adrenal glands took a month to recover from your long term habitual usage…
thermogenic effects don’t wear off? ridiculous! if someone discontinues usage, thermogenic properties of the drug wear off too…it’s absolutely moronic to think otherwise…did you mean to type something else?
E+C stacks are not supplements (vitamin C pills are supplements)…they are drugs…
again, I never said it wouldn’t work…I said your ‘average joe’ would be better off adjusting his diet and not taking ephedrine every day long term (so he won’t have to feel like shit when he discontinues use)…
you disagree…you think someone would be better off using ephedrine+caffine stacks every day long term…good for you…
yes, those that use it intelligently will benefit…
but, long term every day use of an ephedrine + caffine stack is not intelligent usage…
I didn’t ask for them…you were telling me about them…post them here if you want me to look…
the argument we WERE having is not about whether ephedrine+caffine stacks are effective or not (we both agreed that they work)…we were arguing about side effects of long term use…
any study that claims taking an ephedrine + caffine stack every day for long periods of time and then stopping will not cause someone to feel like crap (run down, lethargic, shitty workouts ,etc…) is bullshit…
in my opinion, if someone is looking for long term body composition changes they would be better off without ephedrine + caffine stacks every day for six weeks or more…so that way when they eventually come off their workouts will not suffer and they won’t feel run down…
[quote]mikeland wrote:
Where is everyone getting their ephedra? Call me ignorant, but I thought it was banned? I take Claritin-D every now and then, but the psuedo stuff doesn’t do crap compared to good ol’ Ma Huang.
Thanks.[/quote]
Bronchaid and Primatene mist tablets are sold at just about every pharmacy. You can buy the Bronchaid 25mg tablets for about 12 bucks for 60 of them.
[quote]dc3869 wrote:
mikeland wrote:
Where is everyone getting their ephedra? Call me ignorant, but I thought it was banned? I take Claritin-D every now and then, but the psuedo stuff doesn’t do crap compared to good ol’ Ma Huang.
Thanks.
Bronchaid and Primatene mist tablets are sold at just about every pharmacy. You can buy the Bronchaid 25mg tablets for about 12 bucks for 60 of them.[/quote]
You can get it much cheaper online. Just do a search for VasoPro.