Anybody but Romney

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]atypical1 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
The debt did go up a small amount under Reagan

It went up 186%. That’s hardly small.[/quote]

The debt went from a little over one trillion to 2.6 trillion in his eight years as President. Under the cluster fuck administration of Barry Obama it went from 12 trillion to 16 trillion, and he did this in only four years! That is an increase of 1 trillion per year for Obama!

Also, where are all the jobs? Reagan created over 20 million private sector jobs. I’ll take a debt increase of 1.6 trillion in eight years if 20 million jobs come along with it. Not to mention the general upbeat attitude of the country at that time compared to now.

http://www.skymachines.com/US-National-Debt-Per-Capita-Percent-of-GDP-and-by-Presidental-Term.htm

82

I also find it amusing that the left was aghast that GW Bush raised the debt 3 trillion in 8 years in office. But under Obamawitz they don’t mind it going up 4 trillion in only four years.

And while we’re on the topic of things that the left didn’t like under Bush but don’t mind under Obama.

  • What happened to the closing of Gitmo?

-The left was enraged that unemployment had hit 7.8% under Bush, but under Obama it has been over 8% for his entire term.

-Obama approved of drone attacks

-Obama signed the Patriot Act extension

I could go on and on. Where is all the outrage from the left? It seems that Obama has done many of the same things as GW did, but for some reason it’s all okay now.

83

@ Zeb I personally think there are a lot of So called liberals that are not happy with Obama . IMO you are too enraged to hear them .

I think the truth is more important than rhetoric even if it does not suit my purpose , I can not say the same for you

National Debt probably did go up after Obama took office but again it does not suit your purpose to answer why ?

I personally think drone attacks are smart but I do understand that collateral damage is more likely

84

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

By cutting their taxes investing in something that will out pace inflation [/quote]

Okay… The market doesn’t always outpace inflation, but irrelevant.

How does that take anything away from anyone else?[/quote]

There are many investments that are better than gold when gold was the standard .

if everybody’s money has less and less value but my curency stays the same or becomes more powerful then my currency is superior and will double and triple and all I have to do is trade part of my currency back into money
[/quote]

Okay, but I still don’t see how you making wise investment choices takes away from anyone else.[/quote]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/politics/articles/20120823romney-unveils-energy-policy.html

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2012/08/21/20120821john-mccain-hold-public-meeting-peoria-f-35.html

Again I know it is not proof of how controlling policy and wise investing can guarantee huge rewards but consider it more as me presenting eveidence

85

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
@ Zeb I personally think there are a lot of So called liberals that are not happy with Obama . IMO you are too enraged to hear them .

I think the truth is more important than rhetoric even if it does not suit my purpose , I can not say the same for you

National Debt probably did go up after Obama took office but again it does not suit your purpose to answer why ?

I personally think drone attacks are smart but I do understand that collateral damage is more likely [/quote]

You speak so much in generalities that I don’t take your political posts all that seriously Pittski.

You go ahead and vote for Obama and you don’t even have to give a good reason. It’s America go vote for your party favorite. God knows there is no other reason to reelect the second most inept President of our modern era.

Hey, if the past is any indication of the future with four more years of Obama we might have 86 million people on food stamps and unemployment approaching 16%.

Go for it Pitt…Like I’ve said before whoever wins I’ve already made enough money it won’t effect me as much. I just feel really sorry for a once great country and the many people who are working their asses off just to keep their heads above water.

Hope & Change didn’t work the first time around. So, by all means give him another four years don’t even think of trying someone else-- perfectly illogical!

86

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

One thing: would you mind explaining why the AMT doesn’t do exactly what we’ve been talking about? I’m sure its complex lol, so if that’s unanswerable or takes an advanced degree to understand, just say so.[/quote]

I will openly admit we have computer programs now that figure out page 2 of form 6251, and they can do math correctly so… All I can tell you is the basics without this being a super long post, that yes, you need some degree of understanding beyond “pretty good” to get, lol.

AMT takes taxable income, backs off certain deductions (state and local taxes ebing the biggest trigger), gives a small exemption to lower wage people, and forces you to pay, at least 28%.

The reason it doesn’t work the way you talked about is it follows the same character rules as normal tax. Qualified dividends and LTCG are treated different.

Easiest fix is up the exemption to 1mil and up the AMT LTCG rates to 20%… OUtside of tax credits, you shoudln’t ever see anyone pay less than 20% again.

But that won’t grab any headlines, and too many people would be like “What?” to do it that way. So they will do some convoluted bullshit that will just keep me employed, lol.[/quote]

Good stuff, thanks man. If I had to guess I’d say this stuff will remain a clusterfuck for years (or ever), so I think you’ll have a job.

87

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
@ Zeb I personally think there are a lot of So called liberals that are not happy with Obama . IMO you are too enraged to hear them .

I think the truth is more important than rhetoric even if it does not suit my purpose , I can not say the same for you

National Debt probably did go up after Obama took office but again it does not suit your purpose to answer why ?

I personally think drone attacks are smart but I do understand that collateral damage is more likely [/quote]

You speak so much in generalities that I don’t take your political posts all that seriously Pittski.

You go ahead and vote for Obama and you don’t even have to give a good reason. It’s America go vote for your party favorite. God knows there is no other reason to reelect the second most inept President of our modern era.

Hey, if the past is any indication of the future with four more years of Obama we might have 86 million people on food stamps and unemployment approaching 16%.

Go for it Pitt…Like I’ve said before whoever wins I’ve already made enough money it won’t effect me as much. I just feel really sorry for a once great country and the many people who are working their asses off just to keep their heads above water.

Hope & Change didn’t work the first time around. So, by all means give him another four years don’t even think of trying someone else-- perfectly illogical![/quote]

I will answer why Obama increased the national debt for you . The country ran into the ditch under the Bush admin.

1 It created 14 million unemployed people.

2 Social program sky rocketed .

3 there were 14 million less tax payers .

4 Bush’s tax cut was in full swing

we wont get into tarp too murky for you to be objective

88

[quote]ZEB wrote:

Hope & Change didn’t work the first time around. So, by all means give him another four years don’t even think of trying someone else[/quote]

This is a major part of the problem.

He hasn’t gotten anything done, he hasn’t been a leader, we are more divided than ever before in my life. Maybe I’m just paying more attention, but I sorta doubt it.

89

I contend it is the Republican plat form that promotes division . Any one that does not agree with the Republican plat form is liberal , crazy , out of touch . Just pay attention to this message board. You do not have rabid Democrats . Most Democrats (which I am not) I know will discuss Obama objectively . In AZ we have a movement that could do away with tax funded partisan primaries . IMO the best thing that could happen to both left and right wing nut jobs

90

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

I will answer why Obama increased the national debt for you . The country ran into the ditch under the Bush admin.

[/quote]

Okay fine. Yes the economy tanked under Bush’s watch. There are a lot of factors, starting back in the 1980’s if not the 1970’s (and if you wanted to be a total douche about it, with FDR), that continued on, president after president, congress after congress that just kept their foot on the pedal.

And then all the sudden, the American people forgot how to do basic math, insurance companies forgot how to do math, and our government forgot how to let the free market work.

Yes shit hit the fan, yes Bush was in office, and yes, prior to that he made some questionable (to put it nicely) choices.

Even though you can’t, I will give you, for the sake of argument, that it was all Bush’s fault. All his fault. (It wasn’t but, I want to make a point.)

So… Here comes Obama. He knows the country is in the shitter, he knows people are super pissed, and he knows people want Republicans out of office, because most ignorantly put all the blame on Bush. Bush should get some blame, I could make the case for a lot of blame, but he isn’t solely to blame. The shit hole we were in was very, very purple. (Clinton was getting his hands dirty with it in between blow jobs and lying about them)

Obama knows all this. And you know what he did? He spent millions of dollars to win a job that pays 400k a year.

He wanted the job, knowing people would expect him to fix it. He even said it. He said if I don’t get the job done, fire me in 4 years.

Not only did he want the job, he was more than happy to tell everyone how he was going to change things, how is was going to make America better, how this test was just that, a test, and he would pass. He sold us Hope, and the people bought it. He promised us change, and the people wanted it.

Well… 4 years later and he didn’t pass the test. There was no hope, at least half the country are pretty pissed about his biggest change, mainly because he didn’t change anything but healthcare. The man can’t even get a budget through. We dont’ even have a god damn budget. Most government budgets are lies anyway. The man can’t even get a lie through congress.

So here we are. His entire sales pitch now is “the other guy is worse than me”. And “the Republicans won’t play ball.”

As to the first one, I doubt it. At least I’m 100% postive Mitt isn’t going to socialize any more of our markets.

As to the second… I want a leader, I want someone who can work with the other party. I want someone who is going to get past all that, and if they fail not point a finger. Not get on national TV and bitch and moan and whine to the American people to call tehir reps. Fuck that noise. I want someone with balls, someone who will lead.

I want my fucking country back.

91

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
@ Zeb I personally think there are a lot of So called liberals that are not happy with Obama . IMO you are too enraged to hear them .

I think the truth is more important than rhetoric even if it does not suit my purpose , I can not say the same for you

National Debt probably did go up after Obama took office but again it does not suit your purpose to answer why ?

I personally think drone attacks are smart but I do understand that collateral damage is more likely [/quote]

You speak so much in generalities that I don’t take your political posts all that seriously Pittski.

You go ahead and vote for Obama and you don’t even have to give a good reason. It’s America go vote for your party favorite. God knows there is no other reason to reelect the second most inept President of our modern era.

Hey, if the past is any indication of the future with four more years of Obama we might have 86 million people on food stamps and unemployment approaching 16%.

Go for it Pitt…Like I’ve said before whoever wins I’ve already made enough money it won’t effect me as much. I just feel really sorry for a once great country and the many people who are working their asses off just to keep their heads above water.

Hope & Change didn’t work the first time around. So, by all means give him another four years don’t even think of trying someone else-- perfectly illogical![/quote]

I will answer why Obama increased the national debt for you . The country ran into the ditch under the Bush admin.

1 It created 14 million unemployed people.

2 Social program sky rocketed .

3 there were 14 million less tax payers .

4 Bush’s tax cut was in full swing

we wont get into tarp too murky for you to be objective
[/quote]

Hold on there Pittski it was your President who extended the Bush tax cuts. If they were so bad then why did he extend them?

Also, didn’t we “hire” Obama to fix the mess that we were in?

Now answer this question:

Did he fix the mess?

92

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

I will answer why Obama increased the national debt for you . The country ran into the ditch under the Bush admin.

[/quote]

Okay fine. Yes the economy tanked under Bush’s watch. There are a lot of factors, starting back in the 1980’s if not the 1970’s (and if you wanted to be a total douche about it, with FDR), that continued on, president after president, congress after congress that just kept their foot on the pedal.

And then all the sudden, the American people forgot how to do basic math, insurance companies forgot how to do math, and our government forgot how to let the free market work.

Yes shit hit the fan, yes Bush was in office, and yes, prior to that he made some questionable (to put it nicely) choices.

Even though you can’t, I will give you, for the sake of argument, that it was all Bush’s fault. All his fault. (It wasn’t but, I want to make a point.)

So… Here comes Obama. He knows the country is in the shitter, he knows people are super pissed, and he knows people want Republicans out of office, because most ignorantly put all the blame on Bush. Bush should get some blame, I could make the case for a lot of blame, but he isn’t solely to blame. The shit hole we were in was very, very purple. (Clinton was getting his hands dirty with it in between blow jobs and lying about them)

Obama knows all this. And you know what he did? He spent millions of dollars to win a job that pays 400k a year.

He wanted the job, knowing people would expect him to fix it. He even said it. He said if I don’t get the job done, fire me in 4 years.

Not only did he want the job, he was more than happy to tell everyone how he was going to change things, how is was going to make America better, how this test was just that, a test, and he would pass. He sold us Hope, and the people bought it. He promised us change, and the people wanted it.

Well… 4 years later and he didn’t pass the test. There was no hope, at least half the country are pretty pissed about his biggest change, mainly because he didn’t change anything but healthcare. The man can’t even get a budget through. We dont’ even have a god damn budget. Most government budgets are lies anyway. The man can’t even get a lie through congress.

So here we are. His entire sales pitch now is “the other guy is worse than me”. And “the Republicans won’t play ball.”

As to the first one, I doubt it. At least I’m 100% postive Mitt isn’t going to socialize any more of our markets.

As to the second… I want a leader, I want someone who can work with the other party. I want someone who is going to get past all that, and if they fail not point a finger. Not get on national TV and bitch and moan and whine to the American people to call tehir reps. Fuck that noise. I want someone with balls, someone who will lead.

I want my fucking country back.[/quote]

I personally do not think it was ALL Bush’s fault , If you are concerned about National Debt . then the Bush Tax cuts were NOT good for the country. (AS I recall they were passed on a temporary basis)

AS far as Obama not working with the Republican is amusing . Obama is not nor has he been that all the Republicans have been in the past. The Republican have gone to the right because Obama is so much in what used to be the middle .

I am not sure what country you lost ? tell me about it please .

93

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I contend it is the Republican plat form that promotes division . Any one that does not agree with the Republican plat form is liberal , crazy , out of touch . Just pay attention to this message board. You do not have rabid Democrats . Most Democrats (which I am not) I know will discuss Obama objectively . In AZ we have a movement that could do away with tax funded partisan primaries . IMO the best thing that could happen to both left and right wing nut jobs[/quote]

LOL no rabid dems huh?

Seems to me that they were all frothing at the mouth when Bush was President. Many on the left are some of the most hate filled people on the planet. Or, did you forget about what they wanted to do to Bush?

As I said earlier they wanted to hang Bush for many of the exact same things that Obama is doing. From Gitmo and extending the Patriot Act to extending the tax cuts

Explain that one Pittski.

94

The funniest part is that we’re all supposed to believe that after four years of Obama, and two of those years he had both houses of congress democrat that …are you ready? (drum roll)…IT’S ALL BUSH’S FAULT!

Wahahaha…funniest thing that I’ve ever heard!

Why?

Because they actually have the sheep believing it.

95

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
@ Zeb I personally think there are a lot of So called liberals that are not happy with Obama . IMO you are too enraged to hear them .

I think the truth is more important than rhetoric even if it does not suit my purpose , I can not say the same for you

National Debt probably did go up after Obama took office but again it does not suit your purpose to answer why ?

I personally think drone attacks are smart but I do understand that collateral damage is more likely [/quote]

You speak so much in generalities that I don’t take your political posts all that seriously Pittski.

You go ahead and vote for Obama and you don’t even have to give a good reason. It’s America go vote for your party favorite. God knows there is no other reason to reelect the second most inept President of our modern era.

Hey, if the past is any indication of the future with four more years of Obama we might have 86 million people on food stamps and unemployment approaching 16%.

Go for it Pitt…Like I’ve said before whoever wins I’ve already made enough money it won’t effect me as much. I just feel really sorry for a once great country and the many people who are working their asses off just to keep their heads above water.

Hope & Change didn’t work the first time around. So, by all means give him another four years don’t even think of trying someone else-- perfectly illogical![/quote]

I will answer why Obama increased the national debt for you . The country ran into the ditch under the Bush admin.

1 It created 14 million unemployed people.

2 Social program sky rocketed .

3 there were 14 million less tax payers .

4 Bush’s tax cut was in full swing

we wont get into tarp too murky for you to be objective
[/quote]

Hold on there Pittski it was your President who extended the Bush tax cuts. If they were so bad then why did he extend them?

Also, didn’t we “hire” Obama to fix the mess that we were in?

Now answer this question:

Did he fix the mess?[/quote]

While i do agree with you Obama did extend the tax cuts ( which mostof YOUR true so called liberals were not happy about) He did try , he just could not muster the votes

96

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
@ Zeb I personally think there are a lot of So called liberals that are not happy with Obama . IMO you are too enraged to hear them .

I think the truth is more important than rhetoric even if it does not suit my purpose , I can not say the same for you

National Debt probably did go up after Obama took office but again it does not suit your purpose to answer why ?

I personally think drone attacks are smart but I do understand that collateral damage is more likely [/quote]

You speak so much in generalities that I don’t take your political posts all that seriously Pittski.

You go ahead and vote for Obama and you don’t even have to give a good reason. It’s America go vote for your party favorite. God knows there is no other reason to reelect the second most inept President of our modern era.

Hey, if the past is any indication of the future with four more years of Obama we might have 86 million people on food stamps and unemployment approaching 16%.

Go for it Pitt…Like I’ve said before whoever wins I’ve already made enough money it won’t effect me as much. I just feel really sorry for a once great country and the many people who are working their asses off just to keep their heads above water.

Hope & Change didn’t work the first time around. So, by all means give him another four years don’t even think of trying someone else-- perfectly illogical![/quote]

I will answer why Obama increased the national debt for you . The country ran into the ditch under the Bush admin.

1 It created 14 million unemployed people.

2 Social program sky rocketed .

3 there were 14 million less tax payers .

4 Bush’s tax cut was in full swing

we wont get into tarp too murky for you to be objective
[/quote]

Hold on there Pittski it was your President who extended the Bush tax cuts. If they were so bad then why did he extend them?

Also, didn’t we “hire” Obama to fix the mess that we were in?

Now answer this question:

Did he fix the mess?[/quote]

And I am back to stating that I am not voting for Obama , I am voting against Romney

97

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

I am not sure what country you lost ? tell me about it please .
[/quote]

The one were kids grew up, when to college and expected to work for their money, not have rich people give it to them.

The one where everyone hated taxes.

The one where people knew that the government wasn’t your friend, buddy or pale.

The one where the police couldn’t detain me, forever, without a lawyer.

The one where they at least had to lie that they were tracking your every move.

The one were 5 year old girls aren’t getting frisked like they just shot JFK to get on an ariplane

The one were people without money tried to get rich, rather than protest the rich to give them free shit

The one where people knew, that being poor here, still means you have better life than many, many people on this Earth.

The one were kids could still say the pledge, and knew we are a fucking republic, not a democracy

The one where the costs weren’t being socialized on my back

The one where a president would never, ever been able to appoint Timmy after promising not to, and not be hammered in the newspaper

The one that had real journalism

The one without Agenda 21

The one without Obama’s Cloward-Piven

The one where “spread the wealth around” and “you didn’t build that” would have had him laughted out of the race, not have his entire party justify it.

The one where when a president said “fundamental change America” it was for the better, not to socialize our nation.

98

I agree with all but

Obama coward piven ?

Agenda 21 ?

And appointing timmy ?

All the rest tell me where to sign up

99

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

I am not sure what country you lost ? tell me about it please .
[/quote]

The one were kids grew up, when to college and expected to work for their money, not have rich people give it to them.

The one where everyone hated taxes.

The one where people knew that the government wasn’t your friend, buddy or pale.

The one where the police couldn’t detain me, forever, without a lawyer.

The one where they at least had to lie that they were tracking your every move.

The one were 5 year old girls aren’t getting frisked like they just shot JFK to get on an ariplane

The one were people without money tried to get rich, rather than protest the rich to give them free shit

The one where people knew, that being poor here, still means you have better life than many, many people on this Earth.

The one were kids could still say the pledge, and knew we are a fucking republic, not a democracy

The one where the costs weren’t being socialized on my back

The one where a president would never, ever been able to appoint Timmy after promising not to, and not be hammered in the newspaper

The one that had real journalism

The one without Agenda 21

The one without Obama’s Cloward-Piven

The one where “spread the wealth around” and “you didn’t build that” would have had him laughted out of the race, not have his entire party justify it.

The one where when a president said “fundamental change America” it was for the better, not to socialize our nation.[/quote]

That is very well written my friend and I certainly agree with you. One of the problems is that we have fallen so far that people think that the best we can do is someone like Obama. Funny the man who promised hope has actually taken it away!

100

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I agree with all but

Obama coward piven ?

Agenda 21 ?

And appointing timmy ?

All the rest tell me where to sign up[/quote]

What percentage do you get for each party in that?