Any Dudes Wanna Get Married?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
623

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Man, oh man…YOU and people who think like you are what is wrong with organized religion today. YOU and people who think like you are what is wrong with America today and would gladly take us in the direction of Iran and Saudi Arabia in their narrow-minded thinking and controlling of their people. YOU and people who think like you are the American equivalent of the Taliban and their religious doctrines that allow stoning people to death during the intermission of a soccer game.[/quote]

You’re characteristically clueless my dear. You have grievously misrepresented every single thing I’ve ever said on this subject and for the 100th time. Anybody who cares to honestly look, will find that people like me were the mainstream middle when this once great nation was founded. People like you wouldn’t represent more than an infinitesimal fraction of the population for another 150 years.

Please produce just one quote of mine in my thousands of posts where I said anything like the lies you have here attributed to me. Just one. When you fail to do that I will quote myself saying exactly the opposite in this very thread. Not surprising though, you do exactly what God says you’re gonna do. If you’ll exchange His truth for a lie with marriage why should I be left out?[/quote]

“YOU and people who think like you are what is wrong with organized religion today”

“YOU and people who think like you are what is wrong with America today”

Well, clearly she’s talking about America at its founding.

624

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:<<< incestuphobic, >>>[/quote]Here’s a thought. What if 2 (or 3 for that matter) BROTHERS or SISTERS want to marry each other. OHHHHH Lord God almighty!!! Now we have GAY siblings demanding cover by these fabulous new “marriage” laws. What in the name of all that’s tolerant, fair, progressive hip n groovy do we do with that now?!?!?!?!?
[/quote]

Well they are siblings, that’s pretty straightforward. You are an idealist tirib, you are comcerned with the afterlife, I’m concerned with this life. God tells you what you should know, don’t be concerned with minutiae, its all devils work anyway. Now go and repent. ;)[/quote]

Nice way to mock his faith, you’re soooo very cool. Now I wonder how cool it would be to mock homosexuals? It didn’t used to be cool to mock someones religion, but it is now. But nooooo there’s no slippery slope NAW![/quote]

I would be surprised if tirib thought I was mocking, but anyhow, I do aplogize if I did, I thought of it as a friendly jab.

625

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Nice way to mock his faith, you’re soooo very cool. Now I wonder how cool it would be to mock homosexuals? It didn’t used to be cool to mock someones religion, but it is now. But nooooo there’s no slippery slope NAW![/quote]

I would be surprised if tirib thought I was mocking, but anyhow, I do aplogize if I did, I thought of it as a friendly jab.[/quote]Yeah Zeb, I gotta say. I’ve spent some time with our friendly resident Finn here and in his case I didn’t take it as him being nasty. We disagree about pretty much everything, but he’s just not put together that way. I do appreciate you coming to my defense though.

626

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:

Going with the heart analogy, ever hear of a heart transplant? Replacing someone’s original nonworking heart with another person’s? Works just fine, doesn’t it, given the donor is a close match? You can equate gay marriage with a heart transplant. I’m pretty sure, given time, that it too will work just fine.
[/quote]

Haha! I love it. Yes, your analogy works perfectly. I completely agree with you. I really do!

So, answer me this question: Let’s say they are giving away free heart transplants down at the Mayo clinic. Absolutely everything you could possibly need, from pre-op care to post-op follow-up and any related care is covered, and the operation will be performed by the best surgeon in the country along with his hand picked team. They’ll even take you to and from the hospital in a limousine. Sounds like a pretty good deal, right? You gonna sign up? Would you sign up anyone in your family?
[/quote]

Now, when something sounds too good to be true, it probably IS. I’m pretty sure there’s a catch in there…like maybe that surgeon likes to start his day with a double on the rocks of Johnny Walker and likes to operate slightly non-sober as he feels this gives him an edge during surgery. Or that maybe the heart that is going in my body wasn’t as vetted as it should have been and was procured on the black market from a Colombian drug lord that the anesthesiologist owes money to for his last batch of cocaine. Would be pretty stupid of me to go blindly into something like that without researching it, right? [/quote]

No no. No need to second guess me. This is simple and logical. There are no catches.

Just think about this as if it honestly happened in your life. If somebody came to you today and told you you could have a heart transplant, free of charge, absolutely no strings attached,would you take them up on it?

You will, of course, have to exchange your present heart. But this is the modern world, heart surgery techniques and artificial heart technology are now state of the art. Trust us. Leave everything to us. What could go wrong?

Do I need to continue?
[/quote]

I would still need to do research and think on it. And if my heart is perfectly fine now, why would I want to exchange it?
[/quote]

Exactly.

But don’t worry, we’ll do this all again for you in about 2-3 months.

627

[quote]Makavali wrote:“YOU and people who think like you are what is wrong with organized religion today”

“YOU and people who think like you are what is wrong with America today”

Well, clearly she’s talking about America at its founding.[/quote]And my point is that what I believe was considered normative at our founding and is what made this country great and what she believes IS destroying it. We are all witnesses whether we like it or not. I keep hoping to see those pants come back up Mak, but you just keep tripping around here.

628

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
…People get jealous, period. What does that have to with binary or polyamorous arrangments that handle it?[/quote]

You mean the ones that are started within the confines of a kooky cult?

[/quote]

Bigot!

629

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Nice way to mock his faith, you’re soooo very cool. Now I wonder how cool it would be to mock homosexuals? It didn’t used to be cool to mock someones religion, but it is now. But nooooo there’s no slippery slope NAW![/quote]

I would be surprised if tirib thought I was mocking, but anyhow, I do aplogize if I did, I thought of it as a friendly jab.[/quote]Yeah Zeb, I gotta say. I’ve spent some time with our friendly resident Finn here and in his case I didn’t take it as him being nasty. We disagree about pretty much everything, but he’s just not put together that way. I do appreciate you coming to my defense though.
[/quote]

kaaleppi is a nice enough guy, that’s not the point. Maybe you need to step away from the current turn of events and take a look at history. 20 years ago one would never think of mocking another person’s religion. But mocking homosexual activity was no big deal. Now I’m not for mocking gay people in any way shape or form. But, it does show you how far the politically correct liberals have taken us.

We can now mock religion every where, on TV, in movies, on message boards and there are ZERO consequences. But not one person can say a word against homosexuality without paying the price that the politically correct liberals charge. They’ve even gone so far as to call us homophobic because we don’t want to change the 5000 year old institution of marriage to include two homosexuals.

You might be just a little too easy going, or you don’t understand how far we’ve fallen. Don’t get me wrong I appreciate your kindness. But keep in mind that there are some on this board that mock Jesus Christ on a regular basis, as if it’s their job and there is sometimes never a word said about it. And some Christians on this board even call them “friend.” Try mocking one of their pet “projects” and see how many posts go by before they try to take you apart.

And by the way that could be why their winning in the real world, at lesat for now.

630

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:<<< Maybe I was just being overly defensive. I agree with Tiribulus that you’re one of the more polite and constructive posters here. >>>[/quote]And you have also usually been fairly agreeable to me as well considering the nature of our differences. Please know that I have never lied to you. I do not hate you. I don’t even dislike you. You don’t disgust me, you don’t skeeve me and I DO NOT see myself as in any way better than you are. You are no worse than I am without Jesus.[quote]forlife wrote:<<< It’s an issue that affects me in a very personal way, so I’m probably MORE subject to confirmatory bias than anyone else here. >>>[/quote]In other words your mind is made up ahead of time no matter what anybody says. How well I understand. Don’t I? [quote]forlife wrote:<<< I need to do a better job of staying clear of these discussions, or at least better taking them in stride.[/quote]You need to stay clear of your own deadly self will operating in bondage to your corrupt nature inherited from Adam. How well I know that too. No chance apart from the risen Christ living His resurrection life in you and through you. Oh how gratefully well I do so positively know that as well.
[/quote]

I’ve always considered you to be sincere, and even compassionate in your own way. If I believed what you believe, I would probably act the same way. I don’t even mind that your beliefs cause you to act contrary to my interests, because I know know your heart is in the right place, and because I’m confident that society will support my interests in the long run.

Now, if we could just convince you to let go of Calvin, and follow the good Pope, we would make real progress :wink:

631

[quote]ZEB wrote:
20 years ago one would never think of mocking another person’s religion. But mocking homosexual activity was no big deal. [/quote]

In the 80’s you could still go to jail for blasphemy, I don’t think anyone did, the last cases were in the 60’s, I think. But we are talking about a religion that pervaded the whole society, it dictated holidays and when the stores should be closed.

You could not escape it, so some kind of backlash is kind of natural. And now when confessing christians are finally like the rest of us, we get muslims trying the same antics.

632

You make some good points ZEB, but we battle not against flesh and blood and treating individual unbelievers in a friendly manner is not the same as friendship with the world which would include acceptance of their sin. Another thread though where I would be glad to discuss this further. I am terrible for taking threads off topic and I’m trying to do better lately.

633

How can someone go through life and not want to have children? I have 3 and they are the light of my life – one is at USNA with a 3.9 GPA and wants to go USMC-ground, the next has a 4.2 GPA and is a team captain on his hs sports program, and my youngest makes straight A’s in middle school. All of them are wonderful.

To miss out on all of that, just to stick an unprotected penis in some joker’s poop chute, or vice versa…un-fucking-believable…

634

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
You make some good points ZEB, but we battle not against flesh and blood and treating individual unbelievers in a friendly manner is not the same as friendship with the world which would include acceptance of their sin. Another thread though where I would be glad to discuss this further. I am terrible for taking threads off topic and I’m trying to do better lately.[/quote]

If we battle not against flesh and blood what’s the point of engaging them on this board?

635

Boy the forums today are slow.

For those anti-gay marriage, do you believe homosexuality is genetic? If not what is the cause of homosexuality in your opinion?

I’d preferably like to avoid hearing Bible quotes or references to god in your answer but I have a feeling it’s going to be mentioned.

636

For you posters who do not think homosexuality is genetic, in your opinion why does homosexuality exist?

Preferably I would not like to god, the Bible or anything supernatural but I’m guessing that’s just a pipe dream.

637

[quote]forlife wrote:<<< I’ve always considered you to be sincere, and even compassionate in your own way. >>>[/quote]I’m compassionate because of God’s compassion on me. If you showed up at our church hand in hand with your boyfriend you would be welcomed. I mean really welcomed. We have a every form of redeemed Detroit street trash you can think of worshiping God in there LOL. We know what we are. You’d hear the gospel for sure, but most of the people at my church, aside from being black are pretty much like me. [quote]forlife wrote:<<< If I believed what you believe, I would probably act the same way. >>>[/quote]Not probably. You would be driven to do so. [quote]forlife wrote:<<< I don’t even mind that your beliefs cause you to act contrary to my interests, because I know know your heart is in the right place, >>>[/quote]My heart has been supernaturally regenerated by the power of the risen Son of the most high God. You wouldn’t wanna know about my heart before. >>>[quote]forlife wrote:<<< and because I’m confident that society will support my interests in the long run. >>>[/quote]This is where you are so gravely wrong. They will support you in the short run. The path this nation is presently on has no long run. [quote]forlife wrote:<<< Now, if we could just convince you to let go of Calvin, and follow the good Pope, we would make real progress :wink: >>>[/quote]Calvin was just a messenger my friend. Like may other messengers. God used him 400 years after he lived to brand upon my soul the truth of His mind numbing unapproachable majesty. That makes him one of my heroes. Everybody’s got em. Van Til is just as significant to me. Jesus brought me from death to life, used John Calvin to show me more fully what that meant from scripture and Cornelius Van til to teach me how to think like all of that was true. I will die happily no matter when or how in the knowledge of God’s boundless free grace upon my wretched life. That very fact preserves me from popery. (potpourri? =] )

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:In the 80’s you could still go to jail for blasphemy, I don’t think anyone did, the last cases were in the 60’s, I think. But we are talking about a religion that pervaded the whole society, it dictated holidays and when the stores should be closed. You could not escape it, >>>[/quote]That is correct LOL!!! Very good man. Back BEFORE school shootings. Before children who are barely more than feral beasts butchering each other on our streets. Before an exploding self destructive welfare state brought on by the death of faithful committed families. Before all this unleashed whoredom that has and is destroying said faithful committed families. Back when the brutal nauseating rape and murder of a women or child was news because it was fairly exceptional. Before it became so commonplace we barely notice anymore. You know back then. The bad old days. But hey, everybody’s gittin laid now and appears to be happy with the tradeoff. We have earned what’s comin to us. [quote]kaaleppi wrote:<<< an endless parade so some kind of backlash is kind of natural. >>>[/quote] And biblical when a nation takes the course we have. >>>[quote]kaaleppi wrote: And now when confessing christians are finally like the rest of us, >>>[/quote]My dear friend you have just, by the common grace of the God of the universe, uttered the towering profundity of the week, maybe the month. This is EXACTLY, I mean 100% right dead on. When the people claiming His name are NO different than the rest of you it is OVER. The modern church is a pathetic, meely mouthed, idolatrous, powerless, corrupt and immoral lover of the world she is commanded to be separate from. Look around just this website. There are people here with Jesus on their lips immersed in abominable filthy lives and spouting heretical modernist theology or both. It is no wonder we are “marrying” members of the same gender now. The church, the salt and light of the earth has lost her savor and is as dark as the world.

638

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
forlife wrote:<<< I’ve always considered you to be sincere, and even compassionate in your own way.

I’m compassionate because of God’s compassion on me. If you showed up at our church hand in hand with your boyfriend you would be welcomed. I mean really welcomed. We have a every form of redeemed Detroit street trash you can think of worshiping God in there LOL.[/quote]

High praise indeed! LMAO

639

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:
Did I/we say that marriage was JUST about declaring to people that you love someone? I do agree with marriage being a bond between a man and woman… But, the child part is optional, in my opinion.[/quote]

Yes, it is optional. Not always does a wife get pregnant.

No, moral decay is the reason for taking the procreative aspect out of the conjugal act within marriage. Although the birth of children is the fruit of marriage.

[quote]Love is the prime reason most people get married in the first place, then children are created from that love… If they choose or even can, for that matter.
[/quote]

Usually those that love each other also want to give each other children, well…that’s what my grandparents tell me.[/quote]

Ok. This sounds resonable to me for the most part.

One of the main reasons why I focused on this, was due to that before Greeny and I got married, I was ok with not having any children. I like children…I just never had the innate desire for some reason. The women I had dated prior to Greeny, either had children or didn’t want them. Hell, I was in my early 40’s, so I figured it wasn’t happening.

Well, almost 2years ago, I meet Grneyes… When we started talking about a future, children was a part of this and if I wasn’t on board, then we weren’t going any further.

Now, while the prospect of having children scares part of me, another is pretty excited at the same time. Obviously, i’m on board now, since we got married last September.

Anyway, you do know that the Bible is very much supportive of married couples having sex, just for pleasure, right? I ask, due to the “moral decay” portion of your post. Am I misunderstanding you?

640

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
…People get jealous, period. What does that have to with binary or polyamorous arrangments that handle it?[/quote]

You mean the ones that are started within the confines of a kooky cult?

[/quote]

Bigot![/quote]

Or you could answer the question. Are those the ones he means? I’ve yet to see a polyamorous arrangement last a life time unless part of a stifling cult where men have all the power. I’ve seen gay couples last a lifetime outside of any religious influence.

So just answer the question.

641

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:
I understand the slippery slope argument about polyamorous and polygamous and incestuous couples, but one of those things is definitely against natural law and should never be considered okay by anyone’s morals.[/quote]

We don’t legislate private morality, remember? If homosexual brothers, or sisters, want to marry you can’t object to state recognition of it.

The only people that ever try to answer this question always say the same, yes. Every time. Those who assure us that there is no slippery slope vanish. So, when we conservatives point out that it doesn’t end until marriage means basically any arrangment consenting adults can imagine between themselves, we do so for good reason. Thank you.

Still would like to know why you want state sponsored discrimination between human relationships and sexual orientation/activity.[/quote]

I’m not asking for state sponsored discrimination, I’m asking for state sponsored equality. And gay sexual relationships ARE human relationships, or are homosexuals not human anymore? The state already recognizes sexual orientation/activity by recognizing marriage.

642

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Again, I would ask you what about the people who want to get married who do NOT want to have kids?[/quote]

Matters what you mean by not want to have kids. As in they don’t want to have kids at the moment, or they never want kids?

Ban them from marriage? How does banning them from marriage equal living in sin? Yes, if they don’t have a desire for children then they should not marry. That is after all one of the ways in which you show your love to your spouse is giving yourself fully, and that includes being open to children. If you’re not, then it’s like I love you, but just not enough to give you children. That’s not fully.

Yes, that is why the only way a conjugal act can be considered moral is if it is within marriage and it is both unitive and procreative. :slight_smile:

I know, Bl. John Paul the Great thinks so, too. He even advises in his books that a husband should wait to orgasm until his wife has. He taught that it should be enjoyable, not only for the man, but his wife, as well.

Um, okay? “People have been killing people since the beginning of time. Get over it already.” That is not really an defense.[/quote]

I mean as in NOT wanting kids EVER. Are you saying those people should not be allowed marry? What about those women who have no desire to become a mother or men who have no desire to become a father? Should they remain virgins for life? Are they not allowed to enjoy the sexual act? Just because they don’t want to procreate?