I do not intend to be the least bit dismissive when I ask you, forlife, to refer above to my last few posts to GambitLost. They cover exactly what you are talking about here. SPOILER ALERT: I still disagree with you 
[quote]Cortes wrote:
I do not intend to be the least bit dismissive when I ask you, forlife, to refer above to my last few posts to GambitLost. They cover exactly what you are talking about here. SPOILER ALERT: I still disagree with you ;)[/quote]
I donāt believe your posts to GL address my main point that gay marriage provides a NET BENEFIT to society by increasing the number of adopted children with married parents, without decreasing the number of biological children with married parents.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
The question pertains to what arrangement is in the best interest of those children, given that they will be raised by gay parents.<<<>>>ARE ADOPTED CHILDREN BETTER OFF IF THEIR PARENTS (WHETHER GAY OR STRAIGHT) ARE MARRIED? >>>[/quote]There are no such things as gay parents OR gay marriages. Never will be no matter what stamp of approval some perverted state attempts to put on it. Children in gay households are by definition in a morally, spiritually and socially degenerate and abusive environment and God help the people who make this happen. The specific label itās given is irrelevant. [/quote]
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
The question pertains to what arrangement is in the best interest of those children, given that they will be raised by gay parents.<<<>>>ARE ADOPTED CHILDREN BETTER OFF IF THEIR PARENTS (WHETHER GAY OR STRAIGHT) ARE MARRIED? >>>[/quote]There are no such things as gay parents OR gay marriages. Never will be no matter what stamp of approval some perverted state attempts to put on it. Children in gay households are by definition in a morally, spiritually and socially degenerate and abusive environment and God help the people who make this happen. The specific label itās given is irrelevant. [/quote][/quote]
Posting stuff like this is pointless. Most of us for legalizing gay marriage are godless or at least do not care what Christian theology has to say.
Personally I am very skeptical a spirit world even exists.
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
I do not intend to be the least bit dismissive when I ask you, forlife, to refer above to my last few posts to GambitLost. They cover exactly what you are talking about here. SPOILER ALERT: I still disagree with you ;)[/quote]
I donāt believe your posts to GL address my main point that gay marriage provides a NET BENEFIT to society by increasing the number of adopted children with married parents, without decreasing the number of biological children with married parents.[/quote]
Youāre a harsh master, forlife, you really do demand much of me.
My words were right there. Last post to GL.They represent my objections perfectly. But, since I apparently have to, here are the words,posted again:
āIn other words, there are all sorts of societal ills that could use righting, but we have to decide if one is really so compelling that it requires us to radically redefine the core familial structure of our society. Weāre not talking about breaking a few eggs here. Weāre actually talking about tinkering with an institute that has withstood, relatively unchanged, 5000 years of human societal upheavals across all continents and circumstances.ā
On top of that, you are comparing apples to orange rocks. In one situation, we have clear, unambiguous, pretty much unanimously agreed upon consensus and the vast majority of human society since its inception nearly all in agreement that there is a clear, NECESSARY set of behaviors and organization that any society that wants to survive and thrive will need to find an effective way of implementing. They worked it out a very long time ago and, despite every change, advancement, adaptation and transformation, we have yet to see a major human social group that does not encourage this arrangement. Thereās a reason for that. Itās because the net positive effect that heterosexual marriage ordering confers upon society is not just beneficial, but absolutely essential to the success of that society.
And now we come to the second part: Well homosexual marriage partnerships could provide nearly the same thing, as well, so how could anyone but a bigot ever find any reason to object?
Thing is, and again I almost feel dumb having to SAY it, is that the benefits we are talking about, the net value of those benefits, are orders of magnitude removed from one another. The importance of homosexuals being allowed to marry when compared to heterosexual couples as regards those benefits is so off the scale out of proportion I would be embarrassed to try and estimate the difference between the two. And it has NOTHING to do with the disproportion in populations, either.
So, back to my original post to GL. The thing is, we got something that aint broke and a lot of folks hollerin about how it needs fixin (did you know Iām a Texas-boy, myself?). I, for one, and I am not the only one by a longshot, do not see the benefits you put forth here coming any where near moving me toward feeling we should change the whole thing around without thinking deeply, very deeply, about the unintended consequences that could arive.
I am happy to concede that there are many, many homosexual partners who would provide a wonderful, loving, stable if less than ideal household for a child who desperately needed it. I seriously mean this. One of my best friends in this world, his father was a gay man who lived with his partner He was a strong, loving, powerful friend and mentor to me during my formative years. I love him deeply, and was terribly, terribly sorry to have to say goodbye to him when died a much too early death under circumstances Iām certain you can guess. Iām not saying this to be like the white guy who talks about his black friends, I bring it up because I want you to understand that I am not some cardboard cut-out hyper-religious bigot.I do understand. I just donāt agree with you.
Iām a bit drunk now, so bear with meā¦
Cortes, are you saying that you believe state marriage is equivalent to religious marriage in your mind? And I apologize, but did you answer about civil unions?
[quote]
It results in a NET INCREASE in adopted children benefiting from an intact family,[/quote]
waitā¦ what ?
currently,thereās hundreds of heterosexual couples who are willing to adopt a child and who canāt.
and on the other hand, thereās hundred of children who are waiting to be adopted, and are not.
generally because they are too āoldāā¦
do you really think that legalizing homosexual marriage would fix this deeply dysfunctionnal system ?
i would rather think there would be hundreds of homosexual couples waiting to adopt the perfect, healthy, young blond boy, exactly like their heterosexual counterparts.
Meanwhile, the number of unadopted children would remain roughly the same.
adoption suffer from many problems, but shortage of willing parents is not one of them.
[quote]kamui wrote:
adoption suffer from many problems, but shortage of willing parents is not one of them. [/quote]
I can not speak for the system as a whole, but from what I understand the in the State of Georgia in the US this is simply untrue. This is from the mouth of the person whose job it is to place children in a county.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
I apologize for misunderstanding you. It is very easy to do, you know.
Because it creates a new unit, a new household. If the state is to function properly, it needs a proper accounting of itās populace. Two people uniting to create a new household needs to be counted in a different way than two separate single units. In the past, this usually entailed some sort of dowry, whether it was the rich uniting lands or the poor exchanging goats, the state needed to know about it and keep a proper accounting. [/quote]
Okay.
So the purpose of marriage is so that the state can take a census?
Or, if it were an archaic property retention/distribution mechanism, then why does it consistently, ceaselessly remain pretty much unchanged throughout every economic period and basically every major society from the beginnings of recorded history? It scraped feudalism from itās boot like a squished dog turd.
Are you honestly saying that you believe that the general purpose of marriage throughout history has NOT had anything to do with children? Sounds like a pretty counter-intuitive, unwieldy, and highly difficult to implement system for ordering tax categories and estate executions.
Look, I apologize for my facetiousness and I appreciate your answering my questions. Itās just,I canāt help but find it very suspicious that both your and forlifeās provided definition of marriage contained not a single mention of the role of child bearing and rearing in marriage. If thatās not an elephant sitting in the middle of the room then I donāt know what is. Especially in light of the fact that, when you DO acknowledge that child bearing and rearing is indeed an integral function that marriage fulfills, it makes it a LOT harder to support your arguments. [/quote]
Child bearing and rearing is an integral part of marriage, IF you choose to have children. Saying, as you and many others have done, that children are the SOLE reason for marriage negates the people who choose NOT to have children yet STILL get married. By your reasoning, people who are infertile or choose NOT to have children should NOT get married.
I know you say itās to support a model of stable life or whatever, that a couple is better than a single person, but there are no absolutes in this world, especially a happy marriage. If two people are the same sex and want to become a state recognized couple with all the benefits of that status, why is that a problem?
I understand the slippery slope argument about polyamorous and polygamous and incestuous couples, but one of those things is definitely against natural law and should never be considered okay by anyoneās morals. Should we legalize the first two? Again, I donāt see why not when it isnāt hurting anyone and if the people involved are okay with that lifestyle and are of consenting age. I know my views are extremely liberal compared to people on here and that many statements I just made will set off a firestorm of comments but the subject of this thread is gay marriage and I just donāt understand why homosexuals should not be afforded the same relationship status and benefits of that status that my husband and I have just because they are the same sex and my husband and I are of the opposite sex.
I donāt want to dive into an empty swimming pool and I canāt read all posts, but, I want to take part. First, I want to ask something :
Are we taking the approach that marriage is of Catholic/Christian origin?
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Iām a bit drunk now, so bear with meā¦
Cortes, are you saying that you believe state marriage is equivalent to religious marriage in your mind? And I apologize, but did you answer about civil unions? [/quote]
Not equivalent by any means, but hopelessly intertwined.
Again, due to the benefits issue discussed above, I donāt really see a compelling interest in the government, particularly the federal government, sanctioning either gay marriage or civil unions. However, Iād probably be a whole lot less vocal if the word marriage never entered the discussion and the term civil unions was employed.
And no, that is NOT just a semantic distinction, it is a conceptual one.
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Child bearing and rearing is an integral part of marriage
[/quote]
Thank you yes you could have stopped here.
You have all you need to understand the issue in its entirety right here in this one little sentence. You have to extrapolate from it, though, to get there.
Child bearing and rearing is an integral part of marriage WHY?
Again, WHY?
Well, because if there is no child bearing and rearing going on then our society ceases to exist.
Indeed, marriage in the traditional sense ensures our society possesses the integrity to function at it does. The role it serves is easily as important as the role the heart plays in a human body. The job the heart is responsible for is so important that indeed the body cannot exist without it.
THAT is the difference between you and your husbandās relationship, and forlife and his partner. Any other kind of romantic relationship CANNOT fill that role, and so you are going to have to come up with some pretty compelling other reasons why they should get all of the benefits that hetero couples do.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Grneyes wrote: Okay, now answer the question using your brain and thinking for yourself.[/quote]By your definitions of these? No thanks. I had no idea how to use my brain while I was thinking for myself. It wasnāt until the God whose created order you so abhor subdued my sick sinful mind and breathed into it new life in Christ that I learned what āthinkingā actually meant. Go ahead and give me your predictable post modern enlightened answer. I canāt wait to hear it for the millionth time.[/quote]You mean, that living by a book put together by men who wanted to advance their own agendas and line their own pockets is ridiculous? Okay.
Living by a book that is essentially man-made and put together by power hungry men who wanted to advance their own societal agendas and line their pockets with gold and silver is ridiculous.
Predictable enough for you?[/quote]Absolutely and even the death of this nation, at the hands of your corrupt depraved āfreeā thinking (which is anything but BTW) is testifying loudly and spectacularly to the truth that IS the Word of almighty God. You are doing EXACTLY what He says youāre gonna do and the result is EXACTLY what He says itās gonna be while you shill away, nose in the air, about your superior understanding of reality. Congratulations, God is giving you your way which is always the worst penalty of all. The streets of our cities flow with the blood of our fatherless children and the nation teeters on the brink of collapse because you have been getting your way since the 60ās.
A campaign well executed as the holy God gives us over to our own desires by the ever decreasing exercise of the sin restraining power of His common grace in our society. The once mighty and feared United Sates is accomplishing what no foreign enemy ever could have had she remembered her founding. She is washing away her own foundation and torturing herself to death in full view of a scoffing world and a snickering devil. Iām entirely unimpressed with your track record lady. What I believe made this nation great. What you believe is shoveling dirt on her coffin.
In the end the triumphant conquering King of all creation WILL be glorified as once again even the scorn of sinners is made to praise His name. The judgment of another great nation that has spit in His face bears witness to His power and truth. Here, lemme save ya some typing. Not even you realized how thoroughly āreligionā could **** somebody up right? Thatās fine. People just like me were the mainstream middle in the colonial 18th century. Thatās where we launched from and thatās what took us to the top. You can jump up and down, curse, yell, scream, holler and spit, but it will not change that FACT which is so unspeakably loathsome to you.
[/quote]
Okayā¦letās go with this for a minuteā¦it was the PROTESTANT work ethic that got us here, not the Catholicā¦the PROTESTANTS believe in working hard in this life, doing good works and such that will lead to a glorious afterlife. CATHOLICS believe you can sin and repent and all will be fine. Please!!! There are some sins I think the Christian God would REFUSE to forgive. Catholics believe ANY sin is forgivable. Really? The raping, torturing, and killing of a child is forgivable? Even Jesus canāt be that nice. Personally, I believe religion had nothing to do with this countryās founding. Yes, it was colonized by people wanting to practice their own religion since the CATHOLICS (and then the Anglican Church later) refused to allow such freedom of religion, but we finally decided to break from England because we were being economically taken advantage of by an absent landlord. The drive and belief that anything is possible in a relatively barren landscape is what got us where we are. The deep patriotism of the people got us where we are. When this country is attacked, either at Pearl Harbor or on 9/11, this country rose up and got PISSED OFF. We got ourselves out of a decade long Great Depression in a matter of months. Not because of religion, but because this country ROCKS and no one attacks us without swift and complete retribution.
People are smuggled here every day, people that sell themselves for tens of thousands of dollars into virtual slavery. Why? Because this country allows you to be who you are and doesnāt judge you for it. If we are so shitty, why is this still happening?
EDIT: I apologize if this is double posted. My internet crapped out when I hit āsubmitā and itās taking forever for the site to update.
[quote]Edevus wrote:
I donāt want to dive into an empty swimming pool and I canāt read all posts, but, I want to take part. First, I want to ask something :
Are we taking the approach that marriage is of Catholic/Christian origin?[/quote]
As far as I understand we are talking about marriage in the general sense, with an emphasis upon the government recognized/sanctioned/fostered variety.
Like when you see a hot girl and then notice she has a wedding ring and go, āOh, that sucks.ā
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Child bearing and rearing is an integral part of marriage
[/quote]
Thank you yes you could have stopped here.
You have all you need to understand the issue in its entirety right here in this one little sentence. You have to extrapolate from it, though, to get there.
Child bearing and rearing is an integral part of marriage WHY?
Again, WHY?
Well, because if there is no child bearing and rearing going on then our society ceases to exist.
Indeed, marriage in the traditional sense ensures our society possesses the integrity to function at it does. The role it serves is easily as important as the role the heart plays in a human body. The job the heart is responsible for is so important that indeed the body cannot exist without it.
THAT is the difference between you and your husbandās relationship, and forlife and his partner. Any other kind of romantic relationship CANNOT fill that role, and so you are going to have to come up with some pretty compelling other reasons why they should get all of the benefits that hetero couples do. [/quote]
So, you choose to ignore the rest of my post and concentrate on the part of it that agrees with you? Love that logicā¦
Going with the heart analogy, ever hear of a heart transplant? Replacing someoneās original nonworking heart with another personās? Works just fine, doesnāt it, given the donor is a close match? You can equate gay marriage with a heart transplant. Iām pretty sure, given time, that it too will work just fine.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
I donāt want to dive into an empty swimming pool and I canāt read all posts, but, I want to take part. First, I want to ask something :
Are we taking the approach that marriage is of Catholic/Christian origin?[/quote]
As far as I understand we are talking about marriage in the general sense, with an emphasis upon the government recognized/sanctioned/fostered variety.
Like when you see a hot girl and then notice she has a wedding ring and go, āOh, that sucks.ā
;)[/quote]
Thanks. Iāll ask something else : Is the main āconā, according to some of you, the possible negative influence of man/man or woman/woman marriages upon their children?
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Grneyes wrote: Okay, now answer the question using your brain and thinking for yourself.[/quote]By your definitions of these? No thanks. I had no idea how to use my brain while I was thinking for myself. It wasnāt until the God whose created order you so abhor subdued my sick sinful mind and breathed into it new life in Christ that I learned what āthinkingā actually meant. Go ahead and give me your predictable post modern enlightened answer. I canāt wait to hear it for the millionth time.[/quote]You mean, that living by a book put together by men who wanted to advance their own agendas and line their own pockets is ridiculous? Okay.
Living by a book that is essentially man-made and put together by power hungry men who wanted to advance their own societal agendas and line their pockets with gold and silver is ridiculous.
Predictable enough for you?[/quote]Absolutely and even the death of this nation, at the hands of your corrupt depraved āfreeā thinking (which is anything but BTW) is testifying loudly and spectacularly to the truth that IS the Word of almighty God. You are doing EXACTLY what He says youāre gonna do and the result is EXACTLY what He says itās gonna be while you shill away, nose in the air, about your superior understanding of reality. Congratulations, God is giving you your way which is always the worst penalty of all. The streets of our cities flow with the blood of our fatherless children and the nation teeters on the brink of collapse because you have been getting your way since the 60ās.
A campaign well executed as the holy God gives us over to our own desires by the ever decreasing exercise of the sin restraining power of His common grace in our society. The once mighty and feared United Sates is accomplishing what no foreign enemy ever could have had she remembered her founding. She is washing away her own foundation and torturing herself to death in full view of a scoffing world and a snickering devil. Iām entirely unimpressed with your track record lady. What I believe made this nation great. What you believe is shoveling dirt on her coffin.
In the end the triumphant conquering King of all creation WILL be glorified as once again even the scorn of sinners is made to praise His name. The judgment of another great nation that has spit in His face bears witness to His power and truth. Here, lemme save ya some typing. Not even you realized how thoroughly āreligionā could **** somebody up right? Thatās fine. People just like me were the mainstream middle in the colonial 18th century. Thatās where we launched from and thatās what took us to the top. You can jump up and down, curse, yell, scream, holler and spit, but it will not change that FACT which is so unspeakably loathsome to you.
[/quote]
Okayā¦letās go with this for a minuteā¦it was the PROTESTANT work ethic that got us here, not the Catholicā¦the PROTESTANTS believe in working hard in this life, doing good works and such that will lead to a glorious afterlife. CATHOLICS believe you can sin and repent and all will be fine. Please!!! There are some sins I think the Christian God would REFUSE to forgive. Catholics believe ANY sin is forgivable. Really? The raping, torturing, and killing of a child is forgivable? Even Jesus canāt be that nice. Personally, I believe religion had nothing to do with this countryās founding. Yes, it was colonized by people wanting to practice their own religion since the CATHOLICS (and then the Anglican Church later) refused to allow such freedom of religion, but we finally decided to break from England because we were being economically taken advantage of by an absent landlord. The drive and belief that anything is possible in a relatively barren landscape is what got us where we are. The deep patriotism of the people got us where we are. When this country is attacked, either at Pearl Harbor or on 9/11, this country rose up and got PISSED OFF. We got ourselves out of a decade long Great Depression in a matter of months. Not because of religion, but because this country ROCKS and no one attacks us without swift and complete retribution.
People are smuggled here every day, people that sell themselves for tens of thousands of dollars into virtual slavery. Why? Because this country allows you to be who you are and doesnāt judge you for it. If we are so shitty, why is this still happening?
EDIT: I apologize if this is double posted. My internet crapped out when I hit āsubmitā and itās taking forever for the site to update.[/quote]
Ignoring that the post itself is an absolute pandemonium of misconception,fallacy, mischaracterization and bitterness, it is also like WAY off topic. You mind taking it to another thread? Because this forum has the peculiar tendency to turn absolutely any topic into a religious gridlock, if we arenāt vigilant.
Yeah, I know I didnāt say the same thing to Tirib earlier. Itās because his posts stayed on the original topic.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Grneyes wrote: Okay, now answer the question using your brain and thinking for yourself.[/quote]By your definitions of these? No thanks. I had no idea how to use my brain while I was thinking for myself. It wasnāt until the God whose created order you so abhor subdued my sick sinful mind and breathed into it new life in Christ that I learned what āthinkingā actually meant. Go ahead and give me your predictable post modern enlightened answer. I canāt wait to hear it for the millionth time.[/quote]You mean, that living by a book put together by men who wanted to advance their own agendas and line their own pockets is ridiculous? Okay.
Living by a book that is essentially man-made and put together by power hungry men who wanted to advance their own societal agendas and line their pockets with gold and silver is ridiculous.
Predictable enough for you?[/quote]Absolutely and even the death of this nation, at the hands of your corrupt depraved āfreeā thinking (which is anything but BTW) is testifying loudly and spectacularly to the truth that IS the Word of almighty God. You are doing EXACTLY what He says youāre gonna do and the result is EXACTLY what He says itās gonna be while you shill away, nose in the air, about your superior understanding of reality. Congratulations, God is giving you your way which is always the worst penalty of all. The streets of our cities flow with the blood of our fatherless children and the nation teeters on the brink of collapse because you have been getting your way since the 60ās.
A campaign well executed as the holy God gives us over to our own desires by the ever decreasing exercise of the sin restraining power of His common grace in our society. The once mighty and feared United Sates is accomplishing what no foreign enemy ever could have had she remembered her founding. She is washing away her own foundation and torturing herself to death in full view of a scoffing world and a snickering devil. Iām entirely unimpressed with your track record lady. What I believe made this nation great. What you believe is shoveling dirt on her coffin.
In the end the triumphant conquering King of all creation WILL be glorified as once again even the scorn of sinners is made to praise His name. The judgment of another great nation that has spit in His face bears witness to His power and truth. Here, lemme save ya some typing. Not even you realized how thoroughly āreligionā could **** somebody up right? Thatās fine. People just like me were the mainstream middle in the colonial 18th century. Thatās where we launched from and thatās what took us to the top. You can jump up and down, curse, yell, scream, holler and spit, but it will not change that FACT which is so unspeakably loathsome to you.
[/quote]
Okayā¦letās go with this for a minuteā¦it was the PROTESTANT work ethic that got us here, not the Catholicā¦the PROTESTANTS believe in working hard in this life, doing good works and such that will lead to a glorious afterlife. CATHOLICS believe you can sin and repent and all will be fine. Please!!! There are some sins I think the Christian God would REFUSE to forgive. Catholics believe ANY sin is forgivable. Really? The raping, torturing, and killing of a child is forgivable? Even Jesus canāt be that nice. Personally, I believe religion had nothing to do with this countryās founding. Yes, it was colonized by people wanting to practice their own religion since the CATHOLICS (and then the Anglican Church later) refused to allow such freedom of religion, but we finally decided to break from England because we were being economically taken advantage of by an absent landlord. The drive and belief that anything is possible in a relatively barren landscape is what got us where we are. The deep patriotism of the people got us where we are. When this country is attacked, either at Pearl Harbor or on 9/11, this country rose up and got PISSED OFF. We got ourselves out of a decade long Great Depression in a matter of months. Not because of religion, but because this country ROCKS and no one attacks us without swift and complete retribution.
People are smuggled here every day, people that sell themselves for tens of thousands of dollars into virtual slavery. Why? Because this country allows you to be who you are and doesnāt judge you for it. If we are so shitty, why is this still happening?
EDIT: I apologize if this is double posted. My internet crapped out when I hit āsubmitā and itās taking forever for the site to update.[/quote]
Ignoring that the post itself is an absolute pandemonium of misconception,fallacy, mischaracterization and bitterness, it is also like WAY off topic. You mind taking it to another thread? Because this forum has the peculiar tendency to turn absolutely any topic into a religious gridlock, if we arenāt vigilant.
Yeah, I know I didnāt say the same thing to Tirib earlier. Itās because his posts stayed on the original topic. [/quote]
Waitā¦so my response to his post is way off topic but Tribās original post wasnāt? WTF?
And I didnāt know saying this country rocks was considered bitterā¦
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Child bearing and rearing is an integral part of marriage
[/quote]
Thank you yes you could have stopped here.
You have all you need to understand the issue in its entirety right here in this one little sentence. You have to extrapolate from it, though, to get there.
Child bearing and rearing is an integral part of marriage WHY?
Again, WHY?
Well, because if there is no child bearing and rearing going on then our society ceases to exist.
Indeed, marriage in the traditional sense ensures our society possesses the integrity to function at it does. The role it serves is easily as important as the role the heart plays in a human body. The job the heart is responsible for is so important that indeed the body cannot exist without it.
THAT is the difference between you and your husbandās relationship, and forlife and his partner. Any other kind of romantic relationship CANNOT fill that role, and so you are going to have to come up with some pretty compelling other reasons why they should get all of the benefits that hetero couples do. [/quote]
So, you choose to ignore the rest of my post and concentrate on the part of it that agrees with you? Love that logicā¦
[/quote]
Uh, no. I brought us to the point.
Haha! I love it. Yes, your analogy works perfectly. I completely agree with you. I really do!
So, answer me this question: Letās say they are giving away free heart transplants down at the Mayo clinic. Absolutely everything you could possibly need, from pre-op care to post-op follow-up and any related care is covered, and the operation will be performed by the best surgeon in the country along with his hand picked team. Theyāll even take you to and from the hospital in a limousine. Sounds like a pretty good deal, right? You gonna sign up? Would you sign up anyone in your family?
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Grneyes wrote: Okay, now answer the question using your brain and thinking for yourself.[/quote]By your definitions of these? No thanks. I had no idea how to use my brain while I was thinking for myself. It wasnāt until the God whose created order you so abhor subdued my sick sinful mind and breathed into it new life in Christ that I learned what āthinkingā actually meant. Go ahead and give me your predictable post modern enlightened answer. I canāt wait to hear it for the millionth time.[/quote]You mean, that living by a book put together by men who wanted to advance their own agendas and line their own pockets is ridiculous? Okay.
Living by a book that is essentially man-made and put together by power hungry men who wanted to advance their own societal agendas and line their pockets with gold and silver is ridiculous.
Predictable enough for you?[/quote]Absolutely and even the death of this nation, at the hands of your corrupt depraved āfreeā thinking (which is anything but BTW) is testifying loudly and spectacularly to the truth that IS the Word of almighty God. You are doing EXACTLY what He says youāre gonna do and the result is EXACTLY what He says itās gonna be while you shill away, nose in the air, about your superior understanding of reality. Congratulations, God is giving you your way which is always the worst penalty of all. The streets of our cities flow with the blood of our fatherless children and the nation teeters on the brink of collapse because you have been getting your way since the 60ās.
A campaign well executed as the holy God gives us over to our own desires by the ever decreasing exercise of the sin restraining power of His common grace in our society. The once mighty and feared United Sates is accomplishing what no foreign enemy ever could have had she remembered her founding. She is washing away her own foundation and torturing herself to death in full view of a scoffing world and a snickering devil. Iām entirely unimpressed with your track record lady. What I believe made this nation great. What you believe is shoveling dirt on her coffin.
In the end the triumphant conquering King of all creation WILL be glorified as once again even the scorn of sinners is made to praise His name. The judgment of another great nation that has spit in His face bears witness to His power and truth. Here, lemme save ya some typing. Not even you realized how thoroughly āreligionā could **** somebody up right? Thatās fine. People just like me were the mainstream middle in the colonial 18th century. Thatās where we launched from and thatās what took us to the top. You can jump up and down, curse, yell, scream, holler and spit, but it will not change that FACT which is so unspeakably loathsome to you.
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Okayā¦letās go with this for a minuteā¦it was the PROTESTANT work ethic that got us here, not the Catholicā¦the PROTESTANTS believe in working hard in this life, doing good works and such that will lead to a glorious afterlife. CATHOLICS believe you can sin and repent and all will be fine. Please!!! There are some sins I think the Christian God would REFUSE to forgive. Catholics believe ANY sin is forgivable. Really? The raping, torturing, and killing of a child is forgivable? Even Jesus canāt be that nice. Personally, I believe religion had nothing to do with this countryās founding. Yes, it was colonized by people wanting to practice their own religion since the CATHOLICS (and then the Anglican Church later) refused to allow such freedom of religion, but we finally decided to break from England because we were being economically taken advantage of by an absent landlord. The drive and belief that anything is possible in a relatively barren landscape is what got us where we are. The deep patriotism of the people got us where we are. When this country is attacked, either at Pearl Harbor or on 9/11, this country rose up and got PISSED OFF. We got ourselves out of a decade long Great Depression in a matter of months. Not because of religion, but because this country ROCKS and no one attacks us without swift and complete retribution.
People are smuggled here every day, people that sell themselves for tens of thousands of dollars into virtual slavery. Why? Because this country allows you to be who you are and doesnāt judge you for it. If we are so shitty, why is this still happening?
EDIT: I apologize if this is double posted. My internet crapped out when I hit āsubmitā and itās taking forever for the site to update.[/quote]
Ignoring that the post itself is an absolute pandemonium of misconception,fallacy, mischaracterization and bitterness, it is also like WAY off topic. You mind taking it to another thread? Because this forum has the peculiar tendency to turn absolutely any topic into a religious gridlock, if we arenāt vigilant.
Yeah, I know I didnāt say the same thing to Tirib earlier. Itās because his posts stayed on the original topic. [/quote]
Waitā¦so my response to his post is way off topic but Tribās original post wasnāt? WTF?
And I didnāt know saying this country rocks was considered bitterā¦
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He was still talking about marriage and its degradation as an institution being a symptom of a disease afflicting our modern society. And the bitterness was in reference to your caricatured description of religious folks. Not all of us are a certain way, and some of us do try and use the brains God gave us
Sorry, I honestly wasnāt trying to be rude.