Anti-american?

Off Topic
21

There’s a thing called Pareto’s Law (also known as the 80/20 rule) that states that 80% of the wealth is controlled.owned by 20% of the people. They have it not because they inerited it, but because of how they think. Even if they DID inherit it, if they thought wrong, they’d quickly lose it (common problem amoungst lottery winners too). If the wealth of the world were evenly distributed amoungst all the people, within 10 years you’d be back to the same 80/20 situation. (BTW, it also applies to people at virtually any task – jobs, 80% of the work is performed by 20% of the people; NBA, 80% of the points are scored by 20% of the players, etc.)

Hmm. You know why it is the way it is? Because people designed it that way. There?s nothing in nature that says that 20% of the squirrels will have 80% of the nuts.

But let?s assume that that is the case. Does that excuse the people with 80% of the wealth from the moral obligation to feed the people with 20% of the wealth? I don?t think so, and really, that?s what I?d want.

To dogchild…I aggree you should redistribute your wealth to me. I however will spend the money I earned the way I see fit. Not watch the money I make be given to people who choose not to work. Those of you who like communism have never lived it. Guess what? in communism there are are still three classes, the rich (governemt employees and supporters), the poor (the average citizen), and the very, very poor (the rest of the average citizens). I can’t believe that there are still people who believe communism can still work when every single, solitary example of communism has or is failing. I think some people are hopelessly stupid.

Ah, yeah. About that. You?re already redistributing your wealth to me, like I said. I?m a public college student. And, I pick through your dumpsters, find the stuff that people throw away, and fix it. A person can live on the waste of our capitalist society. There?s enough food out there to feed everyone. There are enough resources for everyone to have shelter. That?s what pisses me off. Everything is out there, and because of the way that our system is designed, we?re encouraged to buy more, more, more. It?s never enough. So we throw out the old, and bring in the new. Which is just going to break in a year anyway, and besides, we watch all of our TV and become convinced that we must buy the newest thing. Whatever.

I?m not a communist. I?m not a Marxist. I?m not a capitalist. I?m just a person who?s disgusted with the enormous amount of injustice and waste that capitalism produces. That?s all.

22

Anyway, to get around to the point of the topic, none of these opinions make me anti-American. I’m pro free speech, I’m pro religious freedom, and pro democracy.

That’s what makes this country so great–I can come on here and shoot the shit about how stupid and shortsighted we are, and I don’t have to fear retribution from the state.

The bad news is that most of the media is controlled by the rich, so, knowingly or unknowingly, they’re the ones who’s ideas win out. And the whole idea of the rich being hard-working, and thus, ethically superior… guess who’s idea that is?

Anyway. I think I’m done trying to defend my position today. Thanks for the lively discussion and some of the mild flames. I enjoy being called an idiot sometimes.

23

Dear Dog-child, you have never obviously worked hard a day in your life. Because when you have worked for something you’ll be damned if somebody is going to take it from you. Wealth distribution doesn’t work. It has never work and will never work. So give all your money to the poor…Wait, how much money do you give to feed the poor?!..Or would you rather do it with my money?? Nimrod.

24

Mark, this thread has gone off topic. But to answer your question as strickly stated, in my opinion, there is nothing anti-american about not following the president blindly. Perhaps there is some confusion due to the blury lines between being patriotic, supporting the president, thinking for ones self, and being “American.”

Dogchild, at first I was insulted by everything you wrote, then I read your last post and found out you’re still in college. That explains everything, as you don’t work for a living. The fact that people in this country make money through free enterprise is one of the reasons we have one of the most successful economies in the world. This isn’t the place to explain to you the economics of a developing nation, but it is similar to the old saying, “give a man a fish, and feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime.” Your view of the world is that wealth can not be created, it is finite and can only be redistributed. You are mistaken. I encourage you to start taking classes in economics now why you are still in school.

25

Mark,

The fact that people would even call you anti-American for disagreeing w/ the admin shows that they themselves are ANTI-AMERICAN! Tell them to go back and re-read the US history and the US Constitutions.

26

THe biggest problem with American today is American’s inability to distinguish between people/country and government.

That and the fact that a large portion of them really (really, really) fall for their government’s horrible propaganda bullshit.

Yes, I HATE the US Government. Do I hate America/Americans? NO! Hell, I hate your government because they’re destroying your country.

It saddens me to see a county theoritically founded on such great principles (you know, all that freedom stuff in that constitution thingy you may ahve heard about) go completely to shit.

So yes, I hate and do not support the US government as a service to Americans. (And the rest of the world).

27

Again, quite funny to hear a Canadian bitching and moaning about our government and our lack of freedoms.

Got your latest order of MAG-10, buddy?

28

Quote:
“I have never advocated war except as a means of peace”

~ Ulysses S. Grant

Of course he also said…

“The friend in my adversity I shall always cherish most. I can better trust those who helped to relieve the gloom of my dark hours than those who are so ready to enjoy with me the sunshine of my prosperity”

~ Ulysses S. Grant

I think as Canadians we should stand the fuck up and back up our friends…not that our docile nature would ever hold our leaders accountable to proper behavior…

29

THE PEOPLE OF CANADA DO NOT SUPPORT THIS SENSELESS UNJUSTIFIED AGGRESSION!! IF CRETIEN DOES NOT STAND UP TO AMERICAN PRESSURE HE IS NOT REPRESENTING HIS PEOPLE & THEY WILL NEVER FORGIVE HIM!!

{note from MOD: kill caps}

30

DocT, You’re going to have to do a little better then that (you’re Mag-10 example) when asserting Canadians have limited freedom. If you wish to continue using your line of argument and ignorant example, you should realize a main inconsistency in your logic. While Mag-10 and other AAS are illegal in Canada they are not categorized with Heroin and Cocaine as like in the US. Furthermore, possesion for personal use is not even considered an offence, once again unlike in the US.

31

I just don’t understand how so many people can sit back and let their rights be taken away. I truly cannot understand that. All of you realize that the issue of war in iraq will not go to congress because YOUR representatives signed away your voice. You know why? Because they were afraid that if they didn’t give away your voice, many of you would call them “anti-american” for opposing the administration. They gave the president and his administration the power to make decisions on their own that you would normally have input in. Even if you support this war, why would you want your voice to have no weight on the issue? Doesn’t anyone question an administration that seeks such powers? It’s amusing to me that while some people mindlessly sit and regurgitate the administration’s propaganda, there are people that are being called “anti-american” fighting to give you your rights, and your voice, back. Ironic. First of all this country has never been a true “Democracy”, but for one that claims to be it’s funny that our leader dismiss the public will as a “focus group” that is “irrelevant.” Wake up, turn off CNN, and read a fucking book for God’s sake please. Look when it’s time to pick up guns and fight for this country I will be the first in line. But show me a real threat. Hand me a gun and send me to North Korea, someone that actually has WMD, and actually has the means to deliver them to the US. I refuse to believe that a person has fully educated them on this situation and truly believes that iraq is a threat to national security at this time.

32

I would still be against this war in Iraq if Al Gore was the one in the White House who was pushing for it.

33

UWO, I wasn’t attacking Canada.

I was pointing out the hypocrisy of somebody not from my country criticizing mine and telling me how limited I am in my freedoms. The continual complaints on this board about the inability to get certain supps through to Canada was just ripe to be pointed out.

I knew somebody would be offended by that post. Trust me, I have no problems with Canada or Canadians, even if Say is one of yours. :slight_smile:

34

Dogchild, you are certainly no idiot. You answered each mocking post (mild flames, as you say) with rational explanations. Your initial post could have been perceived by some as socialistic. But you clarified your points well. I hope you choose a career in which you can use your verbal skills to make our society a better one. Consider union organizing ? working people need well-educated representatives who care about working people. Many in our country have been duped into following the elusive path to being rich, or at least to worship the rich. They seem to be quite blinded to the realities of the working poor. You refer to sweatshops in third world countries ? we have plenty of exploitation here, also. But the argument often countered with (such as brider?s) is that we are nothing but a welfare state. While this is patently untrue to the degree argued, Brider (and those like him) probably doesn?t care that Wal-Mart workers are paid wages that a person cannot live on (even in a trailer) while the Walton clan live as well as kings and dictators. Under the current administration?s tax plan, the Walton?s will receive tax breaks to make them even wealthier. Do you think they will then give their workers better wages and benefits? No, those minimum wage workers at Wal-Mart are made to work for free after they have clocked out so Wal-Mart won?t have to pay overtime. This is just one example and our country is filled with them.

One of the reasons America is so strong is that we have created a mix of capitalism and social democracy. But the social democracy part is quickly becoming a thing of the past. Unbridled capitalism and arrogant dominance in world affairs will ultimately doom our country and our society. You are the next generation, dogchild ? use your knowledge, talents, skills and education to keep the social democracy part of our country alive.

35

Bryan to Doc T: UWO raises some excellent points. Further, as a Canadian, by law I may not be able to purchase MAG-10 at my local store… but I was able to get corrective surgery for bilateral gynecomastia performed by a top plastic surgeon for FREE! (With only a 2 month wait, and no questions asked!)

I still love ya USA, but that service made me pleased as punch to be a Canadian!

:slight_smile:

36

" So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. "

Rev 3:16

37

DocT: Hipocrocy? How is that? Unless I’m a Canadian lawmaker or politician, I’m not being a hipocrite at all. At no point did I say Canada is any better.

Your automatic defensive knee-jerk response proves my point nicely. If you said my government sucked would I start calling you a hipocrite? No, because it does suck.

I’m not blind. Are you?

38

HYpocrisy…let’s just get the spelling issue of the way.

Ok, maybe hypocrisy isn’t the right word, since you seem to abhor your own government. How about “irrelevant?”

The opinions of a citizen not of my country about my government are irrelevant. Feel better now?

39

One more comment. It’s seems that people in favor of this war think that people opposed to it are “anti-american” becuase we don’t have to security of the nation in mind. In fact this is not true. Most of us that are against this war believe that Saddam Hussein is NOT a threat to our national security at this time.

“Saddam probably does not yet have any nuclear weapons or sufficient
material to make any. Iraq is unlikely to produce indigenously enough weapons-grade material for a deliverable nuclear
weapon until the last half of the decade. Iraq could not produce a bomb
quickly without the delivery of weapons-grade fissile material from abroad.
There is no evidence or claim that such deliveries have been made. As long as
effective sanctions remain in place, it is unlikely that Iraq could acquire such
materials."
-The U.S. Central Intelligence Agency reported in October 2002

“There are no public reports that [Iraq] has tested dry-storable biological weapons, or has made major advances in its weaponization of nerve gas. Furthermore, it seems unlikely that Iraq can openly build up major production and deployment capabilities
without them being detected. In assessing biological and chemical weapons threats it is important to
note that these materials can degrade over time and lose their lethality. In the absence of production facilities to create new toxins, Iraq’s biological agents would gradually deteriorate.
The shelf-life and lethality of Iraq’s weapons is unknown, but it seems likely that the shelf-life was limited. In balance, it seems probable that any agents Iraq retained after the Gulf War now have very limited lethality, if any.”

I don’t reasonably believe I can change anyone mind right now over a forum, but perhaps I can open people’s eyes to the wealth of information from our nation’s own intelligence gathering community that suggests our administration is not being honest with us. If we really want disarmament, why not let the inspections continue? That inspection in the past were incredibly effective. Why would it hurt to let these professinals do what they were brought in to do? If the administration has somehow gathered its own evidence that contradicts the CIA’s information, why are they playing smoke and mirrors with it? That in itself is a violation of the UN Security Council Resolution we accuse Saddam of breaking. Point these guns at North Korea, and I will back you, but keep lying to me and the American public, and I will question you.

40

“Naturally the common people don’t want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, It is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg trials, 1946.