Another Havoc Cycle

Pharma
41

[quote]benmoore wrote:
Westclock wrote:
benmoore wrote:
Westclock wrote:
downintucson wrote:
Thanks Westclock. So, this is the reason (one of them, at least) behind stacking compounds instead of bridging them, right?

Well stacking is mostly so you can run several different drugs at once.

The drugs synergize with each other for better gains if done properly.

But yes it also keeps cycles short.

The less your shut down, the better from a recovery standpoint.

4 weeks you bounce right back with an SERM, 8 weeks might drag a little more.

And you want to bounce back quickly with PH’s, because they dont give great gains, you can end up losing everything you got from the cycle simply because you cant recover fast enough.

Interesting considering how common 8 week bold cycles seem to be.

People do odd cycles all the time, many of them are decently successful.

People do deca only cycles, which is just moronic, but they still make progress. Just because something isn’t ideal doesn’t mean it will not work, and doesn’t mean it isn’t done.

Been thinking even more about this cycle.

I think I would definatly like to run havoc at 40mg ED for 4 weeks minimum.

I WOULD like to run hdrol alongside it.

I am wondering however - since hdrol takes a while to kick in - for the first 1-2 weeks would there be any reason why it would be a bad idea to run at a lower dose… say 50mg? (I do realise you feel that anything under 50mg is a waste).

Im just looking at minimising liver risk for two methyls:

Week 1: Havoc 40mg, Hdrol 50mg
Week 2: Havoc 40mg, Hdrol 50mg
Week 3: Havoc 40mg, Hdrol 75mg
Weel 4: Havoc 40mg, Hdrol 75mg
Week 5: Hdrol 100mg
Week 6: Hdrol 100mg

Or Weeks 1-4 could be ran at 75mg straight?
[/quote]

I would not run less than 75 but certainly it is up to you.

Either way, the 25 mg isnt going to make or break the cycle, your not going to see liver failure at 75 if you don’t see it at 50.

I would run atleast 75 mg/day

42

[quote]TattoosNLifting wrote:
Westclock wrote:

Transdermal PH are a waste of money for the most part.

Also:

The tren clones have an anabolic effect, but only when dosed relatively high, this leads to much higher progesterone qualities than anabolic.

In other words, muscle growth/anabolic effects are practically a side effect of these compounds.

We actually have no idea how or why they work for the most part, zero research of any kind has been done on them, atleast with real tren we have used it in animals, and people have been using it for years.

And atleast a few cases of extremely aggressive prostate cancer have been reported from even moderate usage in YOUNG men with these off the shelf compounds.

The stuff is a plague on the weightlifting society, and it needs to be banned immediately.

That said, its gains are no more impressive than say superdrol, or pheraplex, the trens are attractive due to their lack of methyls for stacking reasons, but its not worth while in my opinion.

Pheraplex parent compound, DMT has been linked to some heart issues, how accurate that is, is hearsay, but so far superdrol has only been linked to liver issues from methylation.

If I were to use any current prohormones I would choose epistane, hdrol, superdrol, or pheraplex.

If I were you and I were limited to prohormones I would stack epistane and hdrol.

Its mixing a type I and II, its two methyls but they are somewhat mild on the liver compared to many.

Both give decent strength and clean gains with no water. They provide “quality” muscle as much as any prohormone can.

Epistane/havoc at 40mg/day + hdrol at 75-100mg/day would be a decent cycle imo.

I would run the hdrol for atleast 5-6 weeks, it takes a little longer to kick than epistane.

Meaning you can start with epistane, run it for 4 weeks along side the epistane, and the simply continue for another 2 weeks on just the hdrol.

Or you can buy more epistane and run it throughout, etc.

Ive posted about it in a thread before. I would expect atleast 7-8 pounds a slight reduction in body fat with a clean diet, increased cardio capacit and moderate strength increases all around.

This is what westlock told me about hdrol and epi, I’m still planning on running the cycle only I think I’m going to run a bridge cycle, hdrol into epistane.

I’ve run milder cycles in the past normally for about 4 weeks, so i am nervous about shut down.

I remember I did mess with dbol and took it too late in the afternoon/night I wanna say, and my member/balls were not the same until i pct’d

I’m thinking about logging the cycle too [/quote]

Just remember you need to run the hdrol for about six weeks or it doesn’t have enough time to kick in.

Hence why I suggested running the epistane as some a pseudo kickstart.

43

Taking into consideration westclocks reccomendations for hdrol dosing I think the below revised cycle is a pleasant balance between results and liver safety. Certainly beats the crap out of a straight 40mg havoc and 100mg hdrol for 6 weeks in terms of liver toxicity.

Week 1: CEL Cycle Assist
Week 2: Havoc 40mg, Hdrol 75mg, CEL Cycle Assist
Week 3: Havoc 40mg, Hdrol 75mg, CEL Cycle Assist
Week 4: Havoc 40mg, Hdrol 75mg, CEL Cycle Assist
Weel 5: Havoc 40mg, Hdrol 75mg, CEL Cycle Assist
Week 6: Hdrol 100mg, CEL Cycle Assist
Week 7: Hdrol 100mg, CEL Cycle Assist
Week 8: Nolvadex 40mg, CEL Cycle Assist, ZMA
Week 9: Nolvadex 40mg, CEL Cycle Assist, ZMA
Week 10: Nolvadex 20mg, TRIBEX Gold 4 tablets, CEL Cycle Assist, ZMA
Week 11: Nolvadex 20mg, TRIBEX Gold 4 tablets, CEL Cycle Assist, ZMA
Week 12: TRIBEX Gold 4 tablets, CEL Cycle Assist, ZMA
Week 13: TRIBEX Gold 4 tablets, ZMA
Week 14: ZMA
Week 15: ZMA

44

benmoore, what is this cycle looking to cost you?

45

[quote]B rocK wrote:
benmoore, what is this cycle looking to cost you?[/quote]

A lot.

46

The ZMA, TRIBEX, and Cycle support arent necessary.

ZMA hasnt been shown to be helpful at all unless your zinc deficient, if you eat a normal diet, you just piss it out.

If you really want it, make your own, buy some magnesium caps for like 10 bucks, and some zinc caps. And take a melatonin/sleep product with B6 in it. Like half of them do.

But I wouldent pay for a ZMA, too much cost, almost no benefit.

The TRIBEX is a decent enough product, not too expensive, and trib does help some post cycle, libido if nothing else.

Cycle support isn’t necessary, blood pressure should not be an issue here.

So I would just buy a jug of milk thistle for like 10 bucks and run that instead.

The actual drugs are like 30 for the havoc and 2*35 for the hdrol, as you need two bottles for that dosage.

So like 100 bucks for drugs, and 60 for an SERM.
10 bucks for milk thistle, 20 bucks for TRIBEX, 160 for drugs = 190 total.

Not cheap, but not outrageous.

Hdrol is a more expensive alternative to say, superdrol and is actually a tad weaker than superdrol.

But it is a clean drug, very few sides, and most users tend to love it.

If your own a budget, a simple cycle of just superdrol dosed at 40mg/day for 4-5 weeks would be effective as well, and a tad cheaper.

40mg/day has a pretty good kick to it, is also quite clean, and at 25 a bottle, mdrol is pretty cheap. Mabey a few more sideffects.

50 for two bottles of superdrol+60 for SERM + your cycle support 20 = 130.

You have alot of options, dont everyone think that what I say is the only option, or even the best option. I simply outline options, you take your pick.

47

[quote]benmoore wrote:
B rocK wrote:
benmoore, what is this cycle looking to cost you?

A lot.[/quote]

what a coincidence, i have put aside “a lot” for a day just like today!! horray! thanks!

48

[quote]Westclock wrote:
The ZMA, TRIBEX, and Cycle support arent necessary.

ZMA hasnt been shown to be helpful at all unless your zinc deficient, if you eat a normal diet, you just piss it out.

If you really want it, make your own, buy some magnesium caps for like 10 bucks, and some zinc caps. And take a melatonin/sleep product with B6 in it. Like half of them do.

But I wouldent pay for a ZMA, too much cost, almost no benefit.

The TRIBEX is a decent enough product, not too expensive, and trib does help some post cycle, libido if nothing else.

Cycle support isn’t necessary, blood pressure should not be an issue here.

So I would just buy a jug of milk thistle for like 10 bucks and run that instead.

The actual drugs are like 30 for the havoc and 2*35 for the hdrol, as you need two bottles for that dosage.

So like 100 bucks for drugs, and 60 for an SERM.
10 bucks for milk thistle, 20 bucks for TRIBEX, 160 for drugs = 190 total.

Not cheap, but not outrageous.

Hdrol is a more expensive alternative to say, superdrol and is actually a tad weaker than superdrol.

But it is a clean drug, very few sides, and most users tend to love it.

If your own a budget, a simple cycle of just superdrol dosed at 40mg/day for 4-5 weeks would be effective as well, and a tad cheaper.

40mg/day has a pretty good kick to it, is also quite clean, and at 25 a bottle, mdrol is pretty cheap. Mabey a few more sideffects.

50 for two bottles of superdrol+60 for SERM + your cycle support 20 = 130.

You have alot of options, dont everyone think that what I say is the only option, or even the best option. I simply outline options, you take your pick.

[/quote]

Already have 3 bottles of cycle support in. I guess I could save one if I really wanted to.

H-drol
= (3 caps a day * 7 days * 4 weeks) + (4 caps a day * 7 days * 2 weeks) / 60 caps per bottle
= 84 + 56 / 60
= 2.3 recurring
= 3 bottles.

Havoc
= (4 caps a day * 7 days * 4 weeks) / 90 caps per bottle
= 1.24 recurring
= 2 bottles.

I guess one could cut cost by only getting 2 and 1 bottles and cutting the dose for a few days here and there. I’ll be saving the leftovers and getting in another bottle of havoc and 2 bottles of hdrol at a later date to perhaps run the exact same cycle again to use up my leftover pills.

m-drol is looking a very tempting option for a future cycle due to cost.

Unrelated but I may have found a real 4ad source. Not sure if they will be willing to ship to me though.

49

[quote]B rocK wrote:
benmoore wrote:
B rocK wrote:
benmoore, what is this cycle looking to cost you?

A lot.

what a coincidence, i have put aside “a lot” for a day just like today!! horray! thanks![/quote]

Just outlined in previous post how many bottles of each I would need (or how you could cut corners)… I couldnt get you a price because Im based in the UK.

50

[quote]benmoore wrote:
Westclock wrote:
The ZMA, TRIBEX, and Cycle support arent necessary.

ZMA hasnt been shown to be helpful at all unless your zinc deficient, if you eat a normal diet, you just piss it out.

If you really want it, make your own, buy some magnesium caps for like 10 bucks, and some zinc caps. And take a melatonin/sleep product with B6 in it. Like half of them do.

But I wouldent pay for a ZMA, too much cost, almost no benefit.

The TRIBEX is a decent enough product, not too expensive, and trib does help some post cycle, libido if nothing else.

Cycle support isn’t necessary, blood pressure should not be an issue here.

So I would just buy a jug of milk thistle for like 10 bucks and run that instead.

The actual drugs are like 30 for the havoc and 2*35 for the hdrol, as you need two bottles for that dosage.

So like 100 bucks for drugs, and 60 for an SERM.
10 bucks for milk thistle, 20 bucks for TRIBEX, 160 for drugs = 190 total.

Not cheap, but not outrageous.

Hdrol is a more expensive alternative to say, superdrol and is actually a tad weaker than superdrol.

But it is a clean drug, very few sides, and most users tend to love it.

If your own a budget, a simple cycle of just superdrol dosed at 40mg/day for 4-5 weeks would be effective as well, and a tad cheaper.

40mg/day has a pretty good kick to it, is also quite clean, and at 25 a bottle, mdrol is pretty cheap. Mabey a few more sideffects.

50 for two bottles of superdrol+60 for SERM + your cycle support 20 = 130.

You have alot of options, dont everyone think that what I say is the only option, or even the best option. I simply outline options, you take your pick.

Already have 3 bottles of cycle support in. I guess I could save one if I really wanted to.

H-drol
= (3 caps a day * 7 days * 4 weeks) + (4 caps a day * 7 days * 2 weeks) / 60 caps per bottle
= 84 + 56 / 60
= 2.3 recurring
= 3 bottles.

Havoc
= (4 caps a day * 7 days * 4 weeks) / 90 caps per bottle
= 1.24 recurring
= 2 bottles.

I guess one could cut cost by only getting 2 and 1 bottles and cutting the dose for a few days here and there. I’ll be saving the leftovers and getting in another bottle of havoc and 2 bottles of hdrol at a later date to perhaps run the exact same cycle again to use up my leftover pills.

m-drol is looking a very tempting option for a future cycle due to cost.

Unrelated but I may have found a real 4ad source. Not sure if they will be willing to ship to me though.[/quote]

Lol, theres no reason to use 4-ad if its not legal to buy.

You might as well just buy real steroids.

51

[quote]Westclock wrote:
benmoore wrote:
Westclock wrote:
The ZMA, TRIBEX, and Cycle support arent necessary.

ZMA hasnt been shown to be helpful at all unless your zinc deficient, if you eat a normal diet, you just piss it out.

If you really want it, make your own, buy some magnesium caps for like 10 bucks, and some zinc caps. And take a melatonin/sleep product with B6 in it. Like half of them do.

But I wouldent pay for a ZMA, too much cost, almost no benefit.

The TRIBEX is a decent enough product, not too expensive, and trib does help some post cycle, libido if nothing else.

Cycle support isn’t necessary, blood pressure should not be an issue here.

So I would just buy a jug of milk thistle for like 10 bucks and run that instead.

The actual drugs are like 30 for the havoc and 2*35 for the hdrol, as you need two bottles for that dosage.

So like 100 bucks for drugs, and 60 for an SERM.
10 bucks for milk thistle, 20 bucks for TRIBEX, 160 for drugs = 190 total.

Not cheap, but not outrageous.

Hdrol is a more expensive alternative to say, superdrol and is actually a tad weaker than superdrol.

But it is a clean drug, very few sides, and most users tend to love it.

If your own a budget, a simple cycle of just superdrol dosed at 40mg/day for 4-5 weeks would be effective as well, and a tad cheaper.

40mg/day has a pretty good kick to it, is also quite clean, and at 25 a bottle, mdrol is pretty cheap. Mabey a few more sideffects.

50 for two bottles of superdrol+60 for SERM + your cycle support 20 = 130.

You have alot of options, dont everyone think that what I say is the only option, or even the best option. I simply outline options, you take your pick.

Already have 3 bottles of cycle support in. I guess I could save one if I really wanted to.

H-drol
= (3 caps a day * 7 days * 4 weeks) + (4 caps a day * 7 days * 2 weeks) / 60 caps per bottle
= 84 + 56 / 60
= 2.3 recurring
= 3 bottles.

Havoc
= (4 caps a day * 7 days * 4 weeks) / 90 caps per bottle
= 1.24 recurring
= 2 bottles.

I guess one could cut cost by only getting 2 and 1 bottles and cutting the dose for a few days here and there. I’ll be saving the leftovers and getting in another bottle of havoc and 2 bottles of hdrol at a later date to perhaps run the exact same cycle again to use up my leftover pills.

m-drol is looking a very tempting option for a future cycle due to cost.

Unrelated but I may have found a real 4ad source. Not sure if they will be willing to ship to me though.

Lol, theres no reason to use 4-ad if its not legal to buy.

You might as well just buy real steroids.
[/quote]

Its legal to buy just nobody wants to damn well sell it! sighs

Regardless - going back to the TRIBEX and the such… I know you have said before that first cycle often kills libido when coming off and following cycles will be better - but Im just trying to minimise any losses in libido and speed up recovery.

52

[quote]benmoore wrote:

Its legal to buy just nobody wants to damn well sell it! sighs

Regardless - going back to the TRIBEX and the such… I know you have said before that first cycle often kills libido when coming off and following cycles will be better - but Im just trying to minimise any losses in libido and speed up recovery.[/quote]

Its on the banned substances list actually.

Cant be legally sold.

53

Im thinking I will run this cycle come october… shoulder should be healed by then and will be back at uni so will minimise long distance walking with back and calf pumps. Will also take some time to reduce my anterior pelvic tilt and improve squat form/mobility.