Amputee Healings?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
181

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:Yes, I am sincere. 100%.

I tell you what. I’ll meet you in the middle. Can you provide me either a synopsis or some way of getting to the heart of the matter in terms of Calvin’s view of predestination. I don’t mean that I am lazy or something, it’s just that I am not in a place where I can dedicate time to such a project. But I would like to see it from your eyes so I could understand, at least in some way.
One thing I have learned is that the ‘predestination’ is actually a tricky word and I take the strictest definition of it. But recently I realize that people don’t see it the same way. In other words, we tend to agree at the core but our words fail to express it accurately. Sometimes people fight about things they even agree with. [/quote]Well Pat that’s very decent of you. I’ll see what I can do. I must say that predestination is simply the natural result of a certain view of God and not the central point in itself. I don’t believe in predestination because I love predestination for predestination’s sake. I honestly see a God who simply cannot fail. It is not possible that He could genuinely desire anything He does not get.

Listen, I came to believe in predestination indirectly through being convinced by Calvin himself of my own deadness in sin. He took me though the Scriptures on a journey of self examination after which I wound up in my bathroom leaning on the sink looking myself in the eyes in the mirror and I knew he was tellin me the truth. It wasn’t even about predestination at that point. It was about what I was without Jesus. I KNEW. Had God left it to me to lift myself up and choose Him I was damned where I stood.
[/quote]

Is this a good synopsis?
http://www.reformedtheology.ca/calvin.html

Cause if so, it my contentions and issues stand with the doctrine. And I do find Calvin’s inability to explain, but a retort of ‘smaller minds’ being incapable of understanding arrogant and fallacious. It does not explain away the issues it just disregards the opponents as being ‘lesser’ in someway. Which is basically an ad hominem attack, which is a fallacy.

What I get from it, is that predestination exists and if you don’t get it, your just to stupid to understand. He also seems to counter argue with a ‘God said so’ attitude.

I simply don’t find his arguments well founded. I know he quotes a lot of scripture, but out of context and you know I have huge issues with that.

Tell me if you think this is a good representation of what Calvin’s theology was.

182

[quote]mertdawg wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]mertdawg wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]mertdawg wrote:

[quote]saveski wrote:
Still no answer to my post - why has God never healed an amputee?

I see all kinds of other mumbo-jumbo but no ANSWERs.[/quote]

IF one accepted your (argument sake) premises that God performs explainable miracles like curing cancer and healing other diseases, but does not heal amputees, the obvious answer would be that he only performs miracles that could have another explanation. Or put another way he only performs miracles that don’t violate laws of physics, but that he only shifts or manipulates reality within the parameters of the probabalistic laws of physics.
[/quote]

I thought god was supposed to be omnipotent. What you’re saying, essentially, is that miracles don’t exist and everything follows the laws of nature. If that is true, a supernatural god is both impossible and unnecessary.[/quote]

Define Omnipotent. IF God is truely omnipotent to the extreme definition then he can violate the constricts of logical argument. You can’t logically limit a OMNIPOTENT being.

Others have argued that God is omnipotent to the degree that he sets the laws and does but not break his own laws.

If he is the creator of natural laws, and desires not to violate them, then when he heals an amputee, he would do so by going back in time and keeping it from happening in the first place and we’d never know.

Or he would erase any inconsistency from the history of the universe and we’d never know.

Or if he wanted to change something that would be unexplainable, he’d change the laws of physics and then we wouldn’t consider it to be unexplainable anymore.

Lastly, all that my statement requires is that a god would chose not to perform miracles by violating the lmits of physics, but only by manipulating reality within probabilistic constraints. If its a choice then it does not limit omnipotence.

But “some god” could still steer the universe within probability limits, and he actually does this through our unexplainable free will ability to affect the universe within the limits of probability. Some “god” whatever you call it, only need to be the last step beyond the edge of scientific explanation, and that science itself requires. Science can never completely describe reality because science is a creature of reality. It is part of it and a map can never contain the territory that it is mapping, unless the map is greater than the territory.

So as far as God being possible or necessary, that does not require that he perform unexplainable mysteries, except the one unexplainable mystery of non-determinism, which allows the ability for “probabalistic miracles”. Would it be explainable if you flipped a coin and it cam up heads 50 straight times? A god could avoid violating laws, and still basically dtermine the coin flip for every binary quantum event.

“Everytihing” does not follow the laws of physics anyway. The laws of physics are non-deterministic. They only set limits so that part is a misunderstanding too.

[/quote]

Very good post. [/quote]

Damn right! mertdowg, well done.[/quote]

I’m surprised you agree with this, since I thought your position was that the laws of nature are deterministic, which is the opposite of what he said.

On the post itself, the problem is that “god” doesn’t do anything beyond what would be expected anyway, without divine intervention. If a priest could flip a coin and have it come up heads 50 straight times, consistently and in a controlled setting, it would be the headline of the millennium. The problem is they can’t do this. Religious claims never bear out, beyond what would be expected by chance alone.
[/quote]

No, my understanding is simpler than that. Being omnipotent and all, we can engineer a redo to where said limb or what not never happened. That kind of thing. I just like that such things are acknowledged as possibilities.

I do disagree with the last sentence, but the over all post is good. The essence that possibilities are endless. Limits are a controlling factor and therefore determinatory ← (I think I invented a new word! But I like it so I am going to use it)
[/quote]

I still don’t fully understand this. Do you agree that there are multiple but limited possibilities? Like you can walk anywhere inside your house but not through the walls?

That’s basically the essence of teh argument that debunks the amputee paradox. God acts within his nature which is manifest in the laws of physics, and regrowing amputated limbs are inherently different than flipping a coin 50 times heads, which would be equivalent to the curing cancer miracle.

Now the argument against this is that regrowing a limb would still be a probabilistic occurrance, just highly improbably, like flipping a million straight coins. I thought that would be the atheists answer.

I’m not sure one way or another. Growing limbs has thermodynamic implications, while probabalistically healing cancer does not (the coins flips permutations are all energetically equivalent, but a healed or severed limb is not because they have different states of entropy, though locally entropy can decrease probabalistically). So they are different, but are they different enough?[/quote]

183

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Does not explain why he does not heal amputees though.
[/quote]

You’d have to first explain why G-d would heal amputees. I say if G-d cannot play on my fantasy football team then he is not real…doesn’t make sense there is no basis for my argument.[/quote]

We still don’t know if it has ever happened or not. Nobody apparently knows. I am guessing the thought process is that if it happened it would be front page news around the world, which is horseshit. I may be happening right now far all we know. If you live in booly booly, Africa and you had a limb restored, we’d likely never hear of it.

185

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]mertdawg wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]mertdawg wrote:

[quote]saveski wrote:
Still no answer to my post - why has God never healed an amputee?

I see all kinds of other mumbo-jumbo but no ANSWERs.[/quote]

IF one accepted your (argument sake) premises that God performs explainable miracles like curing cancer and healing other diseases, but does not heal amputees, the obvious answer would be that he only performs miracles that could have another explanation. Or put another way he only performs miracles that don’t violate laws of physics, but that he only shifts or manipulates reality within the parameters of the probabalistic laws of physics.
[/quote]

I thought god was supposed to be omnipotent. What you’re saying, essentially, is that miracles don’t exist and everything follows the laws of nature. If that is true, a supernatural god is both impossible and unnecessary.[/quote]

Define Omnipotent. IF God is truely omnipotent to the extreme definition then he can violate the constricts of logical argument. You can’t logically limit a OMNIPOTENT being.

Others have argued that God is omnipotent to the degree that he sets the laws and does but not break his own laws.

If he is the creator of natural laws, and desires not to violate them, then when he heals an amputee, he would do so by going back in time and keeping it from happening in the first place and we’d never know.

Or he would erase any inconsistency from the history of the universe and we’d never know.

Or if he wanted to change something that would be unexplainable, he’d change the laws of physics and then we wouldn’t consider it to be unexplainable anymore.

Lastly, all that my statement requires is that a god would chose not to perform miracles by violating the lmits of physics, but only by manipulating reality within probabilistic constraints. If its a choice then it does not limit omnipotence.

But “some god” could still steer the universe within probability limits, and he actually does this through our unexplainable free will ability to affect the universe within the limits of probability. Some “god” whatever you call it, only need to be the last step beyond the edge of scientific explanation, and that science itself requires. Science can never completely describe reality because science is a creature of reality. It is part of it and a map can never contain the territory that it is mapping, unless the map is greater than the territory.

So as far as God being possible or necessary, that does not require that he perform unexplainable mysteries, except the one unexplainable mystery of non-determinism, which allows the ability for “probabalistic miracles”. Would it be explainable if you flipped a coin and it cam up heads 50 straight times? A god could avoid violating laws, and still basically dtermine the coin flip for every binary quantum event.

“Everytihing” does not follow the laws of physics anyway. The laws of physics are non-deterministic. They only set limits so that part is a misunderstanding too.

[/quote]

Very good post. [/quote]

Does not explain why he does not heal amputees though.

[/quote]

Because it it not in humankind’s nature to grow back limbs. It is impossible given our genetic make up. Higher life forms do not have this ability, a horse, for example, can not re-grow a limb, either can a dog, but if they did, would this qualify as a miracle as well?

What you are asking for is not a miracle, it is an impossibility. It can not happen because God did not create mankind or higher lifeforms to possess this ability.

[/quote]

But some reptiles can and their limbs are no more complicated than ours.

So why canr we?

It is absolutely possible to do that and stay within the laws of nature.

[/quote]

Because the genes to regrow limbs have become dormant in mammals. And God is not a magician, he won’t do tricks to satisfy your curiosity. If you don’t believe me, read JOB.

anyhow, check out this article:

depending on how true it is, Pat may be correct. . . . .

186

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]siouxperman wrote:<<< But I still don’ quite understand how you separate evil from God’s plan. >>>[/quote]I don’t. Evil IS included in God’s plan. In His sovereign might and wisdom He orders ALL things to His own purpose and glory, not the least of which is every act of unthinkable evil and depravity in history. [quote]siouxperman wrote:<<< In the case of genocide, if it is God’s plan and it’s all well and good, but how do you know if it’s not? >>>[/quote]It is not possible for one single sub atomic particle or one single thought or act of man or beast to defy the eternal decree of almighty God. [quote]siouxperman wrote:<<< Many things that seem evil to me have been described as in God’s plan, but what if they were actually part of Satan’s plan and we’ve confused them? >>>[/quote]Everything Satan does or can do is under God’s sovereign control. Satan conducted a horrific campaign of destruction against Job, but was required to ask God’s permission every step of the way for example. Read chapter 1. [quote]siouxperman wrote:<<< How the hell do you make sense of when terrible things happen? >>>[/quote]As I said, God orders all things to His own purpose and glory and therefore to those who have been made new in Christ EVERYTHING makes sense though in a sinful world, this side of the resurrection, much of it is unpleasant to us. [quote]siouxperman wrote:<<< Regardless of whether it was Satan or God killing the people, the Christians will go the heaven, right? >>>[/quote]Right. [quote]siouxperman wrote:<<< So why not just throw up your hands and say I believe in God but have no power to influence the events of my life and am just waiting to die?[/quote]Because in the supER logical, mind numbing plan and providence of God, man can be free, accountable, responsible and utterly predestined all at the same time. To quote the apostle Paul when he anticipated the exact question you are wondering which is " Why does He still find fault for who resists His will"? The apostle answers: “who are you, O man, to answer back to God?”. Romans 9:19-20. (Read that whole chapter if you’re interested)

To me this is not even a slight problem. Evil. True evil. Damnable, sinful, death worthy evil is made by the most high God to ultimately praise His glorious name. He displays both his justice in His flawless judgment of all evil AND His unthinkable grace in judging His own Son guilty in my place (and maybe yours) that I may not only be declared not guilty, but be counted as His brother, bride and son. A blood relative of the God of all things seen and unseen. Once He makes one aware of His unsearchable mercy and majesty what I’ve just said is not merely possible, but anything else is just manifestly IMpossible.

I know. More new questions than answered, but I’m doin the best I can as your questions are good ones. Ones I had myself even after coming to know the Lord.

[/quote]

It seems to be that the answers to the questions I have can only really be understood by those who have accepted Christianity. And for whatever reason I don’t have the ability/willingness to accept and or fully believe in Christianity. Given the situation I don’t know that I can square your answers with my questions, but just have to accept that’s how and why you believe what you do. And also just accept that it truly doesn’t make sense to me. But then again neither does the double slit experiment. Blows my mind every time.

187

[quote]siouxperman wrote:It seems to be that the answers to the questions I have can only really be understood by those who have accepted Christianity. And for whatever reason I don’t have the ability/willingness to accept and or fully believe in Christianity. Given the situation I don’t know that I can square your answers with my questions, but just have to accept that’s how and why you believe what you do. And also just accept that it truly doesn’t make sense to me. >>>[/quote]Fair enough for now [quote]siouxperman wrote:<<< But then again neither does the double slit experiment. Blows my mind every time.[/quote]I LOVE that stuff man. I am one Christian who eats up science, physics, astronomy etc, like butterscotch pudding over chocolate fudge smothered in marshmallow cream (with sprinkles =] ). I see my magnificent awesome all powerful God displaying Himself terrible and mighty through and through. Especially in quantum science. LOL! He cracks the door to His outer court open just a bit and then probably chuckles at our arrogant ignorance as our minds bend tryin ta figger it out LOL!

Whatever all this means we know God didn’t do it and if some god did actually do it? It’ll be ANY god imaginable EXCEPT the one true and living God to whom we owe our existence and obedience.

188

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Does not explain why he does not heal amputees though.
[/quote]

You’d have to first explain why G-d would heal amputees. I say if G-d cannot play on my fantasy football team then he is not real…doesn’t make sense there is no basis for my argument.[/quote]

We still don’t know if it has ever happened or not. Nobody apparently knows. I am guessing the thought process is that if it happened it would be front page news around the world, which is horseshit. I may be happening right now far all we know. If you live in booly booly, Africa and you had a limb restored, we’d likely never hear of it. [/quote]

I have several friends from Africa and they always ask me why we don’t use the miracles in Africa as proof of G-d against the atheists, I say because they’ll deny that Africans are mentally capable of knowing that miracles aren’t real and that they are stupid for being religious.

189

[quote]pat wrote:
Nor did I make any such claim you stated.[/quote]

Except you did. You replace prime mover with the God of your choice. You should try being intellectually honest and admitting you don’t know.

190

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Does not explain why he does not heal amputees though.
[/quote]

You’d have to first explain why G-d would heal amputees. I say if G-d cannot play on my fantasy football team then he is not real…doesn’t make sense there is no basis for my argument.[/quote]

We still don’t know if it has ever happened or not. Nobody apparently knows. I am guessing the thought process is that if it happened it would be front page news around the world, which is horseshit. I may be happening right now far all we know. If you live in booly booly, Africa and you had a limb restored, we’d likely never hear of it. [/quote]

I have several friends from Africa and they always ask me why we don’t use the miracles in Africa as proof of G-d against the atheists, I say because they’ll deny that Africans are mentally capable of knowing that miracles aren’t real and that they are stupid for being religious.[/quote]

You know that’s not true and you know it.

191

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Does not explain why he does not heal amputees though.
[/quote]

You’d have to first explain why G-d would heal amputees. I say if G-d cannot play on my fantasy football team then he is not real…doesn’t make sense there is no basis for my argument.[/quote]

We still don’t know if it has ever happened or not. Nobody apparently knows. I am guessing the thought process is that if it happened it would be front page news around the world, which is horseshit. I may be happening right now far all we know. If you live in booly booly, Africa and you had a limb restored, we’d likely never hear of it. [/quote]

I have several friends from Africa and they always ask me why we don’t use the miracles in Africa as proof of G-d against the atheists, I say because they’ll deny that Africans are mentally capable of knowing that miracles aren’t real and that they are stupid for being religious.[/quote]

You know that’s not true and you know it.[/quote]

Actually, there is a poster on here (I won’t mention names) that said exactly that and I have heard it said in various ways to my face.

192

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Does not explain why he does not heal amputees though.
[/quote]

You’d have to first explain why G-d would heal amputees. I say if G-d cannot play on my fantasy football team then he is not real…doesn’t make sense there is no basis for my argument.[/quote]

We still don’t know if it has ever happened or not. Nobody apparently knows. I am guessing the thought process is that if it happened it would be front page news around the world, which is horseshit. I may be happening right now far all we know. If you live in booly booly, Africa and you had a limb restored, we’d likely never hear of it. [/quote]

I have several friends from Africa and they always ask me why we don’t use the miracles in Africa as proof of G-d against the atheists, I say because they’ll deny that Africans are mentally capable of knowing that miracles aren’t real and that they are stupid for being religious.[/quote]

You know that’s not true and you know it.[/quote]

Actually, there is a poster on here (I won’t mention names) that said exactly that and I have heard it said in various ways to my face.[/quote]

A poster or a handful of people you know doesn’t constitute every atheist or even a majority. Is it fair for me to call you a pedophile based on the actions of some of your priests?

193

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Does not explain why he does not heal amputees though.
[/quote]

You’d have to first explain why G-d would heal amputees. I say if G-d cannot play on my fantasy football team then he is not real…doesn’t make sense there is no basis for my argument.[/quote]

We still don’t know if it has ever happened or not. Nobody apparently knows. I am guessing the thought process is that if it happened it would be front page news around the world, which is horseshit. I may be happening right now far all we know. If you live in booly booly, Africa and you had a limb restored, we’d likely never hear of it. [/quote]

I have several friends from Africa and they always ask me why we don’t use the miracles in Africa as proof of G-d against the atheists, I say because they’ll deny that Africans are mentally capable of knowing that miracles aren’t real and that they are stupid for being religious.[/quote]

You know that’s not true and you know it.[/quote]

Actually, there is a poster on here (I won’t mention names) that said exactly that and I have heard it said in various ways to my face.[/quote]

A poster or a handful of people you know doesn’t constitute every atheist or even a majority. Is it fair for me to call you a pedophile based on the actions of some of your priests?[/quote]

Wasn’t talking about every atheist or even a majority. I haven’t talked to every or a majority of atheists.

194

[quote]pat wrote:<<< Is this a good synopsis?
http://www.reformedtheology.ca/calvin.html

Cause if so, it my contentions and issues stand with the doctrine. And I do find Calvin’s inability to explain, but a retort of ‘smaller minds’ being incapable of understanding arrogant and fallacious. It does not explain away the issues it just disregards the opponents as being ‘lesser’ in someway. Which is basically an ad hominem attack, which is a fallacy.

What I get from it, is that predestination exists and if you don’t get it, your just to stupid to understand. He also seems to counter argue with a ‘God said so’ attitude.

I simply don’t find his arguments well founded. I know he quotes a lot of scripture, but out of context and you know I have huge issues with that.

Tell me if you think this is a good representation of what Calvin’s theology was.[/quote]I WILL read this Pat and I want you to know that your willingness to simply hear speaks well of you and I’m gratified. I have no illusions that you will fall on your face embracing the reformation, but we can discuss more meaningfully maybe if we at least understand each other better.

In any case I will try to dig up something shorter from Calvin. The reason I wanted you to read the man himself is so that you could see that he loved the Lord man. He didn’t spend all his time pounding on the pope. The vast majority of what he wrote, even in the institutes, was all about helping people love, exalt, worship and please God. Honestly. So many think of John Calvin as this cold academic theologian and are stunned at the devotional, Christ adoring style of his writings when they actually pick up one of his works and read it for themselves.

195

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]siouxperman wrote:It seems to be that the answers to the questions I have can only really be understood by those who have accepted Christianity. And for whatever reason I don’t have the ability/willingness to accept and or fully believe in Christianity. Given the situation I don’t know that I can square your answers with my questions, but just have to accept that’s how and why you believe what you do. And also just accept that it truly doesn’t make sense to me. >>>[/quote]Fair enough for now [quote]siouxperman wrote:<<< But then again neither does the double slit experiment. Blows my mind every time.[/quote]I LOVE that stuff man. I am one Christian who eats up science, physics, astronomy etc, like butterscotch pudding over chocolate fudge smothered in marshmallow cream (with sprinkles =] ). I see my magnificent awesome all powerful God displaying Himself terrible and mighty through and through. Especially in quantum science. LOL! He cracks the door to His outer court open just a bit and then probably chuckles at our arrogant ignorance as our minds bend tryin ta figger it out LOL!

Whatever all this means we know God didn’t do it and if some god did actually do it? It’ll be ANY god imaginable EXCEPT the one true and living God to whom we owe our existence and obedience.
[/quote]

What do those last two sentences mean?

Also, a video of the double slit experiment for anyone inclined to watch it. The animaiton is a bit silly but does a great job of explaining the phenomenon: - YouTube

196

[quote]siouxperman wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]siouxperman wrote:It seems to be that the answers to the questions I have can only really be understood by those who have accepted Christianity. And for whatever reason I don’t have the ability/willingness to accept and or fully believe in Christianity. Given the situation I don’t know that I can square your answers with my questions, but just have to accept that’s how and why you believe what you do. And also just accept that it truly doesn’t make sense to me. >>>[/quote]Fair enough for now [quote]siouxperman wrote:<<< But then again neither does the double slit experiment. Blows my mind every time.[/quote]I LOVE that stuff man. I am one Christian who eats up science, physics, astronomy etc, like butterscotch pudding over chocolate fudge smothered in marshmallow cream (with sprinkles =] ). I see my magnificent awesome all powerful God displaying Himself terrible and mighty through and through. Especially in quantum science. LOL! He cracks the door to His outer court open just a bit and then probably chuckles at our arrogant ignorance as our minds bend tryin ta figger it out LOL!

Whatever all this means we know God didn’t do it and if some god did actually do it? It’ll be ANY god imaginable EXCEPT the one true and living God to whom we owe our existence and obedience.
[/quote]

What do those last two sentences mean?

Also, a video of the double slit experiment for anyone inclined to watch it. The animaiton is a bit silly but does a great job of explaining the phenomenon: - YouTube

Magic! :wink:

197

GUYS! I just realized: God has never caused gold to spontaneously appear in my hand, therefore he can’t be real.

198

[quote]byukid wrote:
GUYS! I just realized: God has never caused gold to spontaneously appear in my hand, therefore he can’t be real. [/quote]

Actually, that’s the point. A miracle should be something that doesn’t occur in nature, yet all miracle healings tend to be something that would/could have happened anyway.

199

[quote]byukid wrote:
GUYS! I just realized: God has never caused gold to spontaneously appear in my hand, therefore he can’t be real. [/quote]

So, your all-powerful, all-loving god created the ENTIRE universe, can cure diseases, part the sea for Moses, preserve the bodies of saints, etc., but can NOT for some reason do a simple amputee healing or materialize a trivial bit of gold in your hand.

Hmm. Am I asking for too much from your god?

And here’s another question which will befuddle you since you won’t use your faculty of reason.

How do you know there’s only one god?

And don’t give me a self-referential answer like it says in Leviticus 13:1 that Jesus said there is only one god therefore I believe whatever it says in there since I can’t use my brain.

(Still amazes me how people are so blinded by mythology.)

200

[quote]saveski wrote:

[quote]byukid wrote:
GUYS! I just realized: God has never caused gold to spontaneously appear in my hand, therefore he can’t be real. [/quote]

So, your all-powerful, all-loving god created the ENTIRE universe, can cure diseases, part the sea for Moses, preserve the bodies of saints, etc., but can NOT for some reason do a simple amputee healing or materialize a trivial bit of gold in your hand.

Hmm. Am I asking for too much from your god?

And here’s another question which will befuddle you since you won’t use your faculty of reason.

How do you know there’s only one god?

And don’t give me a self-referential answer like it says in Leviticus 13:1 that Jesus said there is only one god therefore I believe whatever it says in there since I can’t use my brain.

(Still amazes me how people are so blinded by mythology.)[/quote]

I didn’t know Jesus was speaking in Leviticus.

Two reasons, according to the truth and Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, Kalam Argument, Thomas Aquinas there is one god/intelligent mind/greater good/&c. Moreover, Occam’s Razor. Why would we need multiple eternal, timeless, space-less, personal beings when one is enough.