Ames Debate

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
So you are saying that people will vote based on superficial criteria and not consider what might actually be good for them?

.[/quote]

Welcome to politics!

Romney looked presidential but I have no idea how the Mormon thing will play. Perry looked fake (to be fair so do all candidates, democrat or republican and it was only a gut feeling) But I feel he could get voters out to the polls. Bachmann has a decent shot at VP. I watched the whole debate in its entirety. Appreciate it PWI :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Ron Paul[/quote]
[/quote]

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
I think the lesson US Republicans need to learn is that without the libertarian vote, broadly defined as socially liberal and fiscally conservative, they will lose.
[/quote]

Yeah, let’s nominate the ‘fiscal conservative’ (libertarian) somehow, and then watch as he get’s stomped into the floor during the general elections as his long term planning for scrapping SS and medicare comes into focus. I’d sooner give up on the republicans completely, and try to support socially conservative Democrats (if they still run for office). Libertarians have a party, no one cares. So why the hell do you think we’re stupid enough to let a non-winning ideology, one responsible for the welfare state anyways, take over the GoP. I will never, ever vote for a libertarian. [/quote]

No worries, say hello to your next commander in chief.

[/quote]

Better governance than a libertarian could offer. [/quote]

By default. [/quote]

Absolutely. A libertarian would find himself as a lame duck president when the people turn on him. Meanwhile, he’s deaf, dumb, and blind when it comes to invoking those moral, familial, community, and yes, religious institutions that actually cultivate a self governing people for the future.
[/quote]

Sure, and those institutions did such a marvelous job too.

[/quote]

Oh, but they did. It was people such as yourself that begin to undermine them. If not outright counter to traditional values and morals, dead silent as they came under attack. [/quote]

Exactly. Well said.

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
So you are saying that people will vote based on superficial criteria and not consider what might actually be good for them?

.[/quote]

Welcome to politics!

Romney looked presidential but I have no idea how the Mormon thing will play. Perry looked fake (to be fair so do all candidates, democrat or republican and it was only a gut feeling) But I feel he could get voters out to the polls. Bachmann has a decent shot at VP. I watched the whole debate in its entirety. Appreciate it PWI :P[/quote]

They’d be wise to keep Bachman as far away from the ticket as possibe. The media has declared her Palin the II and will not let go of her until she’s lying bloody on the ground. Also, I never Congressmen and women do not do well at the Presidential level. A good example is Obama. Whether you agree with his policies or not, he’s a weak leader. He does not know how to take charge. That is not what legislators do, it is what Chief Executives do. Governors, heads of large organizations etc.

Romney-Christie

Romney-Perry

Romney-Santorum

Perry-Romney

Perry-Christie

There are other potential winning combinations, none of which include Bachman.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
So you are saying that people will vote based on superficial criteria and not consider what might actually be good for them?

.[/quote]

Welcome to politics!

Romney looked presidential but I have no idea how the Mormon thing will play. Perry looked fake (to be fair so do all candidates, democrat or republican and it was only a gut feeling) But I feel he could get voters out to the polls. Bachmann has a decent shot at VP. I watched the whole debate in its entirety. Appreciate it PWI :P[/quote]

They’d be wise to keep Bachman as far away from the ticket as possibe. The media has declared her Palin the II and will not let go of her until she’s lying bloody on the ground. Also, I never Congressmen and women do not do well at the Presidential level. A good example is Obama. Whether you agree with his policies or not, he’s a weak leader. He does not know how to take charge. That is not what legislators do, it is what Chief Executives do. Governors, heads of large organizations etc.

Romney-Christie

Romney-Perry

Romney-Santorum

Perry-Romney

Perry-Christie

There are other potential winning combinations, none of which include Bachman.[/quote]

You think Perry and Romney could run together with their egos?

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
So you are saying that people will vote based on superficial criteria and not consider what might actually be good for them?

.[/quote]

Welcome to politics!

Romney looked presidential but I have no idea how the Mormon thing will play. Perry looked fake (to be fair so do all candidates, democrat or republican and it was only a gut feeling) But I feel he could get voters out to the polls. Bachmann has a decent shot at VP. I watched the whole debate in its entirety. Appreciate it PWI :P[/quote]

They’d be wise to keep Bachman as far away from the ticket as possibe. The media has declared her Palin the II and will not let go of her until she’s lying bloody on the ground. Also, I never Congressmen and women do not do well at the Presidential level. A good example is Obama. Whether you agree with his policies or not, he’s a weak leader. He does not know how to take charge. That is not what legislators do, it is what Chief Executives do. Governors, heads of large organizations etc.

Romney-Christie

Romney-Perry

Romney-Santorum

Perry-Romney

Perry-Christie

There are other potential winning combinations, none of which include Bachman.[/quote]

You think Perry and Romney could run together with their egos? [/quote]

It is BECAUSE of their ego’s that they could make an alliance. Neither person wanting to fade from the public stage and potential world platform. We only need to look back to 1960 to see LBJ, who had a huge Texas sized ego take the VP slot under John Kennedy. Why did he do that? Because it was better than going back to being a Senator from Texas. That’s only one example, but it’s probably the best. Back in 1980 Geroge Bush (Sr.) and Ronald Reagan fought tooth and nail for the nomination. In fact, Bush called Regan’s economic policies “Voodoo Economics.” A phrase which later came back to haunt him as the media and those on the left picked up on it and never let it go. After Reagan won the nomination Bush knuckled under and ran on the ticket. Incidentally, in both of those examples they ended up forming the winning ticket. One reason is that during a campaign for the top job you get your name out and are instantly recognized by the voters. You’ve also been vetted so there is nothing that the public will find out about you that they didn’t already know. (unless you are Obama and then you get a free pass and a back rub by the MSLIM).

In fact, many times a candidate will run for President knowing he has no chance of winning but does so because he is really running for the VP position (just as Joe Biden did in 08’). Take Rick Santorum for example. He’s a smart guy and he know’s going in that he’s not going to beat Romney. But he’d love to be on the bottom half of the ticket. And win or lose he is in a great position for 2012. In fact, Santorum’s campaign is so underfunded that soon all he’ll be doing is showing up at the debates and not attacking the individual(s) whom he thinks has the best chance of actually winning the nomination - That would be Romney and Perry.

No charge on the political education this time - But next time I will be billing you. Do you use Pay Pal?

:slight_smile:

You think of your opinions as educational?

Oh, please!

You need to wake up and read the writing on the wall.

Non sequitur Youtube artifact:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
You think of your opinions as educational?

Oh, please![/quote]

I know they’re not quite the bat shit anarchist crap that you drool all over the forum but yeah…they’re historically accurate. And if you don’t think that my above post is accurate then it is incumbent upon you to specifically refute said information that you do not think is true. Or you could just become more irrelevant (to the political threads) than you already are and post some outdated music…Oh wait…you just did that.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
You think of your opinions as educational?

Oh, please![/quote]

…they’re historically accurate.
[/quote]

How can you be sure?

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
You think of your opinions as educational?

Oh, please![/quote]

…they’re historically accurate.
[/quote]

How can you be sure?[/quote]

Education, general reading and 25 years of hands on experience. Now, if you are going to attack any of the points that I made I suggest that you do it in your next post.

New Gallup poll out today. the 4 frontrunners Romney,Perry,Paul,Bachmann.

Romney 48% Obama 46% 6% undecided
Perry 47% Obama 47% 6% undecided
Paul 46% Obama 48% with 8% undecided
Bachmann 44% Obama 48% 7% undecided

We got a competitive race now.

[quote]John S. wrote:

New Gallup poll out today. the 4 frontrunners Romney,Perry,Paul,Bachmann.

Romney 48% Obama 46% 6% undecided
Perry 47% Obama 47% 6% undecided
Paul 46% Obama 48% with 8% undecided
Bachmann 44% Obama 48% 7% undecided

We got a competitive race now.

[/quote]

John,

On other topics you seem to be a pretty bright guy. That’s why it’s awful to watch you play the fool on these Ron Paul threads. I’ve schooled you in polling many times. And (since I have to repeat myself yet again) I’ve told you that a cross party Presidential at this very early date MEANS NOTHING. And do you know why that is John? Come on…I’ve told you and retold you. This early in the game most people are NOT paying attention. And even more importantly the general campaign has not yet begun.

One more wake up call for you as we take a look at some fairly recent history:

-In August 1999, Texas Gov. George W. Bush led Vice President Al Gore by 55% to 41% in a Gallup trial heat poll. That race ended up in a virtual dead heat, with Gore ultimately winning slightly more of the national popular vote than Bush.

-In August 1995, Kansas Sen. Bob Dole was slightly ahead of President Bill Clinton in a Gallup poll, 48% to 46%. On Election Day 1996, Clinton beat Dole by eight points.

-In August 1983, President Ronald Reagan was ahead of Democrat Walter Mondale by only one point, 44% to 43%. Reagan went on to beat Mondale in a 59% to 41% landslide in the November 1984 election.

-In August 1979, incumbent President Jimmy Carter was tied with former California Gov. Reagan each getting 45% of the vote. Reagan ultimately defeated Carter by 10 points.

Each of the above polls were done 15 months out and each turned out to be wrong - EVERY ONE OF THEM.

Honestly John I’m going to have to lower my opinion of you if you keep this up.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:

New Gallup poll out today. the 4 frontrunners Romney,Perry,Paul,Bachmann.

Romney 48% Obama 46% 6% undecided
Perry 47% Obama 47% 6% undecided
Paul 46% Obama 48% with 8% undecided
Bachmann 44% Obama 48% 7% undecided

We got a competitive race now.

[/quote]

John,

On other topics you seem to be a pretty bright guy. That’s why it’s awful to watch you play the fool on these Ron Paul threads. I’ve schooled you in polling many times. And (since I have to repeat myself yet again) I’ve told you that a cross party Presidential at this very early date MEANS NOTHING. And do you know why that is John? Come on…I’ve told you and retold you. This early in the game most people are NOT paying attention. And even more importantly the general campaign has not yet begun.

One more wake up call for you as we take a look at some fairly recent history:

-In August 1999, Texas Gov. George W. Bush led Vice President Al Gore by 55% to 41% in a Gallup trial heat poll. That race ended up in a virtual dead heat, with Gore ultimately winning slightly more of the national popular vote than Bush.

-In August 1995, Kansas Sen. Bob Dole was slightly ahead of President Bill Clinton in a Gallup poll, 48% to 46%. On Election Day 1996, Clinton beat Dole by eight points.

-In August 1983, President Ronald Reagan was ahead of Democrat Walter Mondale by only one point, 44% to 43%. Reagan went on to beat Mondale in a 59% to 41% landslide in the November 1984 election.

-In August 1979, incumbent President Jimmy Carter was tied with former California Gov. Reagan each getting 45% of the vote. Reagan ultimately defeated Carter by 10 points.

Each of the above polls were done 15 months out and each turned out to be wrong - EVERY ONE OF THEM.

Honestly John I’m going to have to lower my opinion of you if you keep this up. [/quote]

What this poll shows is the whole Ron Paul is unelectable crap that you have said before and others is a bunch of bullshit. The economy is going to get a lot worse in the run up to next years election so every single one of these guy’s is going to get a boost. You hear about the Blue Republican movement? I called that one remember and you told me it would never happen.

Your right about one thing tho about polls being nonsense, the GOP polls are garbage because the Blue Republicans havn’t switched parties yet. Rick Perry’s letter to nancy Pelosi has just surfaced where he begged for TARP.

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:

New Gallup poll out today. the 4 frontrunners Romney,Perry,Paul,Bachmann.

Romney 48% Obama 46% 6% undecided
Perry 47% Obama 47% 6% undecided
Paul 46% Obama 48% with 8% undecided
Bachmann 44% Obama 48% 7% undecided

We got a competitive race now.

[/quote]

John,

On other topics you seem to be a pretty bright guy. That’s why it’s awful to watch you play the fool on these Ron Paul threads. I’ve schooled you in polling many times. And (since I have to repeat myself yet again) I’ve told you that a cross party Presidential at this very early date MEANS NOTHING. And do you know why that is John? Come on…I’ve told you and retold you. This early in the game most people are NOT paying attention. And even more importantly the general campaign has not yet begun.

One more wake up call for you as we take a look at some fairly recent history:

-In August 1999, Texas Gov. George W. Bush led Vice President Al Gore by 55% to 41% in a Gallup trial heat poll. That race ended up in a virtual dead heat, with Gore ultimately winning slightly more of the national popular vote than Bush.

-In August 1995, Kansas Sen. Bob Dole was slightly ahead of President Bill Clinton in a Gallup poll, 48% to 46%. On Election Day 1996, Clinton beat Dole by eight points.

-In August 1983, President Ronald Reagan was ahead of Democrat Walter Mondale by only one point, 44% to 43%. Reagan went on to beat Mondale in a 59% to 41% landslide in the November 1984 election.

-In August 1979, incumbent President Jimmy Carter was tied with former California Gov. Reagan each getting 45% of the vote. Reagan ultimately defeated Carter by 10 points.

Each of the above polls were done 15 months out and each turned out to be wrong - EVERY ONE OF THEM.

Honestly John I’m going to have to lower my opinion of you if you keep this up. [/quote]

What this poll shows is the whole Ron Paul is unelectable crap that you have said before and others is a bunch of bullshit.[/quote]

Nonsense John, any name that is put up next to Obama’s at this early time will attract votes. They did an experiment a few years back. Fred Gribshaw, was put up next to oppose the President at the time, I think it was Bill Clinton. And Gribshaw drew within 5pts of beating Clinton! And guess what John there was no Fred Grimshaw!

As I’ve been telling you, cross party polls at this point are worthless. It’s mere entertainment. You might as well watch a sit-com as spend your time reading this garbage.

And that has nothing to do with Ron Paul. You think the average voter is going to say "by golly Ron Paul said the economy would tank and it did. I’m voting for Ron Paul! LMAO–you naive little man. Ron Paul will not get credit for that. You have to have a media willing to tell the truth in order for that to happen. The credit if there is any will go to the lead republican which will be someone other than Ron Paul.

First of all the only polls which make sense are the “inner party polls” as I’ve been trying to get through that wooden head of yours. Those are fairly accurate because those races are eminent. Please read a book on politics and polling and also politics and the media as I’ve been asking you to do now for four years. I assure you Paul is NOT going get elected President, nor is he going to get the nomination.

And as far as Perry goes he can go back to Texas and be Governor for all I care. I know the Paulies have been trying to sabotage his campaign. In fact one of you guys actually ran an ad looking for women he slept with. Was that you John? Did you do that? LOL–Paul sure does run a classy campaign a boys?

Bambi (as well as others) stated they were “unclear” on how the “Mormon thing” will play for Romney.

While political history is more Zeb’s expertise (hopefully he’ll give us some insights); I think that we will know once he starts stumping through the “traditional” Super Tuesday States (that as I studied it, started as sort of a “Southern Regional”).

We should learn a lot as Romney campaigns through the “Bible Belt” states of Texas, Florida, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Mississippi, Kentucky, Alabama and Georgia.

Mufasa

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Bambi (as well as others) stated they were “unclear” on how the “Mormon thing” will play for Romney.

While political history is more Zeb’s expertise (hopefully he’ll give us some insights); I think that we will know once he starts stumping through the “traditional” Super Tuesday States (that as I studied it, started as sort of a “Southern Regional”).

We should learn a lot as Romney campaigns through the “Bible Belt” states of Texas, Florida, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Mississippi, Kentucky, Alabama and Georgia.

Mufasa[/quote]

If the MSLM and the Paulies do not drive Perry from the campaign I would expect him to eat Romney’s lunch in the Bible Belt states. Not that Perry would do better than Romney against Obama in a general election, but he first has to get the nomination. And his religion and the fact that he is left of Perry will indeed hurt him.

[quote]John S. wrote:

New Gallup poll out today. the 4 frontrunners Romney,Perry,Paul,Bachmann.

Romney 48% Obama 46% 6% undecided
Perry 47% Obama 47% 6% undecided
Paul 46% Obama 48% with 8% undecided
Bachmann 44% Obama 48% 7% undecided

We got a competitive race now.

[/quote]

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
.[/quote]

cool story bro

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
So you are saying that people will vote based on superficial criteria and not consider what might actually be good for them?

.[/quote]

Welcome to politics!

Romney looked presidential but I have no idea how the Mormon thing will play. Perry looked fake (to be fair so do all candidates, democrat or republican and it was only a gut feeling) But I feel he could get voters out to the polls. Bachmann has a decent shot at VP. I watched the whole debate in its entirety. Appreciate it PWI :P[/quote]

They’d be wise to keep Bachman as far away from the ticket as possibe. The media has declared her Palin the II and will not let go of her until she’s lying bloody on the ground. Also, I never Congressmen and women do not do well at the Presidential level. A good example is Obama. Whether you agree with his policies or not, he’s a weak leader. He does not know how to take charge. That is not what legislators do, it is what Chief Executives do. Governors, heads of large organizations etc.

Romney-Christie

Romney-Perry

Romney-Santorum

Perry-Romney

Perry-Christie

There are other potential winning combinations, none of which include Bachman.[/quote]

You think Perry and Romney could run together with their egos? [/quote]

It is BECAUSE of their ego’s that they could make an alliance. Neither person wanting to fade from the public stage and potential world platform. We only need to look back to 1960 to see LBJ, who had a huge Texas sized ego take the VP slot under John Kennedy. Why did he do that? Because it was better than going back to being a Senator from Texas. That’s only one example, but it’s probably the best. Back in 1980 Geroge Bush (Sr.) and Ronald Reagan fought tooth and nail for the nomination. In fact, Bush called Regan’s economic policies “Voodoo Economics.” A phrase which later came back to haunt him as the media and those on the left picked up on it and never let it go. After Reagan won the nomination Bush knuckled under and ran on the ticket. Incidentally, in both of those examples they ended up forming the winning ticket. One reason is that during a campaign for the top job you get your name out and are instantly recognized by the voters. You’ve also been vetted so there is nothing that the public will find out about you that they didn’t already know. (unless you are Obama and then you get a free pass and a back rub by the MSLIM).

In fact, many times a candidate will run for President knowing he has no chance of winning but does so because he is really running for the VP position (just as Joe Biden did in 08’). Take Rick Santorum for example. He’s a smart guy and he know’s going in that he’s not going to beat Romney. But he’d love to be on the bottom half of the ticket. And win or lose he is in a great position for 2012. In fact, Santorum’s campaign is so underfunded that soon all he’ll be doing is showing up at the debates and not attacking the individual(s) whom he thinks has the best chance of actually winning the nomination - That would be Romney and Perry.

No charge on the political education this time - But next time I will be billing you. Do you use Pay Pal?

:)[/quote]

I am aware of the Bush/Reagan voodoo economics affair, and don’t have Paypal :P. Recently we saw the same battle between Clinton/Obama and that didn’t play out as well for Clinton as she hoped But I don’t personally see a Perry/Romney alliance (though having said this I will no doubt eat my words soon), not only for the egos, but because Romney introduced a ‘mini-Obamacare’ in Massachusetts which might not play out well to the type that attend primaries. And of course, the ‘M’ word. If Romney did go on the VP ticket, it would be seen as a sop to independent, more central types, which could work… meh not sure, it’ll be interesting to see how the plyaed out

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Bambi (as well as others) stated they were “unclear” on how the “Mormon thing” will play for Romney.

While political history is more Zeb’s expertise (hopefully he’ll give us some insights); I think that we will know once he starts stumping through the “traditional” Super Tuesday States (that as I studied it, started as sort of a “Southern Regional”).

We should learn a lot as Romney campaigns through the “Bible Belt” states of Texas, Florida, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Mississippi, Kentucky, Alabama and Georgia.

Mufasa[/quote]

Agreed. I’m a complete news junkie so I will be watching with interest.