Book 1 is a book written for law enforcement officers and other criminal justice employees. It details and outlines the legal code regarding pedophilia. It does so with a dry, detached tone. It outlines what behavior constitutes what acts and what the punishments are for each act. Because it is written for cops or others with special interest in seeing these terrible criminals be brought to justice, it takes special note of situations where a slightly different behavior by the defendant can result in a much harsher penalty. It also outlines what conduct is acceptable by investigating officers and prosecuting attorneys and what sort of behavior can wind up getting a case thrown out or a sentence reduced.
Book 2 is a book written for pedophiles. It details and outlines the legal code regarding pedophilia. It does so with a creepy, emotionally-involved tone. It outlines what behavior and consitutes what acts and what the punishments are for each act. Because it is written for pedophiles or others with special interest in avoiding punishment for sick acts, it takes special note of situations where a slightly different behavior by the defendant can result in a much harsher penalty. It also outlines what conduct is acceptable by investigating officers and prosecuting attorneys and what sort of behavior can wind up getting a case thrown out or a sentence reduced.
Should one or either of these books be banned. If so, what is the crucial distinction? What should the penalty be for somebody producing this sort of material?
Book 1 is a book written for teenage girls, and with a tone like it is written by a teenage girl. It discusses the legal definitions of various types of sexual harassment and what the penalties are, but not so dryly that it seems like a legal textbook. It makes very clear distinctions between what legal precedent has established as “rape”, “statutory rape”, “offensive touching”, etc., and also discusses what the gray areas are. It also describes the extent to which personal or hearsay-type testimony is believed and, historically, what sort of actions have made the testimony of victims more or less believable. It describes a few situations where a male authority figure has unknowingly done actions that, while not criminal in and of themselves, have made him look much more guilty. The book doesn’t come right out and say it, but you kind of get the vibe from reading it that it is a manual on how teenage girls can manipulate their coaches or teachers through the threats of sexual harassment, or how to outright destroy a male coach/teacher’s life.
Book 2 is a book written for adult males, and with a tone like it written for an adult male. It discusses the legal definitions of various types of sexual harassment and what the penalties are, but not so dryly that it seems like a legal textbook. It makes very clear distinctions between what legal precedent has established as “rape”, “statutory rape”, “offensive touching”, etc., and also discusses what the gray areas are. It also describes the extent to which personal or hearsay-type testimony is believed and, historically, what sort of actions have made the testimony of victims more or less believable. It describes a few situations where a male authority figure has unknowingly done actions that, while not criminal in and of themselves, have made him look much more guilty. The book doesn’t come right out and say it, but you kind of get the vibe from reading it that is a manual on how male coaches or teachers can get away with having consensual sex with their underage female players/students, or how to outright get away with sexual harassment or rape.
Should one or either of these books be banned. If so, what is the crucial distinction? What should the penalty be for somebody producing this sort of material?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
If freedom is really such a fetish, let’s do away with all anti-discrimination laws. If employers flat out do not want to hire or serve blacks, hispanics, or jews, so be it. FREEEEEEEDOOOOOM!
Example 1
Book 1 : the “penalty” for this one should be a medal. but it would probably be better if it was a professionnal document restricted to a professionnal audience.
Book 2 should be outlawed.
Example 2 :
Book 1 and Book 2 : neither of these books are explicitly headed toward a criminal audience. they shouldn’t be outlawed as long as the criminal intent is not proven.
Bear in mind that i’m not american.
I’m french, and my understanding of the US legal system could well be totally wrong.
under french law, selling this book (the amazon’s one) would be illegal because even if it is not an incitement to crime, it’s at least an “apology of crime”.
[quote]Aaargh wrote:
debraD and X are narsists, they don’t have children how would they understand.
In fact they are nerds like these Amazon guys, f*cking muppets.[/quote]
Haha, well we got your attention. Just wait until ProfX and I have babies together
A Lot of you guys in here are seriously retarded and are just looking to argue for the sake of arguing…
This book WAS NOT banned.
This isnt a freedom of speech issue.
Dude wrote a book to help out other pedos (im pretty sure one of his quotes said “OTHER pedos” which means the author is a pedophile) not to get caught and a privately owned company decided not to sell it. That isnt BANNING a book nor is it restricting freedom of speech.
[quote]kamui wrote:
Example 1
Book 1 : the “penalty” for this one should be a medal.
Book 2 should be outlawed.
[/quote]
Keep in mind the content of the books are basically exactly the same. The only thing I changed was the “audience” and the “tone.”
Information presented in a dry manner: okay.
The same information presented in a disturbing manner: not okay?
[quote]Example 2 :
Book 1 and Book 2 : neither of these books are explicitly headed toward a criminal audience. they shouldn’t be outlawed as long as the criminal intent is not proven. [/quote]
Now we get into gray areas of interpretation. At what point does a book that’s “kind of slimy because it may or may not be written for adult men wanting to get away with sexual harassment or other questionable content,” become, “a manual for pedophiles”?
I don’t know. But I do know that it is dangerous to define something as “criminal” without being able to define exactly what makes it criminal and what separates it from other, non-criminal things.
[quote]gregron wrote:
A Lot of you guys in here are seriously retarded and are just looking to argue for the sake of arguing…
This book WAS NOT banned.
This isnt a freedom of speech issue.
Dude wrote a book to help out other pedos (im pretty sure one of his quotes said “OTHER pedos” which means the author is a pedophile) not to get caught and a privately owned company decided not to sell it. That isnt BANNING a book nor is it restricting freedom of speech. [/quote]
Dude, a bunch of us sitting around talking about how good it is that Amazon isn’t selling the book makes for a short thread.
A good discussion about free speech and personal liberties, and the difficulties involved with those ideals makes for a good thread.
[quote]gregron wrote:
A Lot of you guys in here are seriously retarded and are just looking to argue for the sake of arguing…
This book WAS NOT banned.
This isnt a freedom of speech issue.
Dude wrote a book to help out other pedos (im pretty sure one of his quotes said “OTHER pedos” which means the author is a pedophile) not to get caught and a privately owned company decided not to sell it. That isnt BANNING a book nor is it restricting freedom of speech. [/quote]
Dude, a bunch of us sitting around talking about how good it is that Amazon isn’t selling the book makes for a short thread.
A good discussion about free speech and personal liberties, and the difficulties involved with those ideals makes for a good thread.[/quote]
yeah it does make for a better thread… I will admit it was a good read (just read through it this morning while watching some NFL games) The people saying that this was going against freedom of speech was what I was talking about/took issue with.
I know what you are saying though. Carry on discussing personal liberties and free speech
[quote]gregron wrote:
A Lot of you guys in here are seriously retarded and are just looking to argue for the sake of arguing…
This book WAS NOT banned.
This isnt a freedom of speech issue.
Dude wrote a book to help out other pedos (im pretty sure one of his quotes said “OTHER pedos” which means the author is a pedophile) not to get caught and a privately owned company decided not to sell it. That isnt BANNING a book nor is it restricting freedom of speech. [/quote]
Dude, a bunch of us sitting around talking about how good it is that Amazon isn’t selling the book makes for a short thread.
A good discussion about free speech and personal liberties, and the difficulties involved with those ideals makes for a good thread.[/quote]
yeah it does make for a better thread… I will admit it was a good read (just read through it this morning while watching some NFL games) The people saying that this was going against freedom of speech was what I was talking about/took issue with.
I know what you are saying though. Carry on discussing personal liberties and free speech :)[/quote]
Reading comprehension fail. No said expressly that Amazon’s decision was an abridgment of freedom of speech. In fact, I and others defended it as their right and explicitly said it wasn’t a freedom of speech issue. The freedom of speech discussion arose from those that suggested the book be banned. It was for the most part an intelligent respectful thread. I think you were paying more attention to the football games. Assuming you’re not a member of the team, maybe you should stop betting or, stop multi-tasking
Well, he’s pretty creepy, but that was expected. But I do respect his standing there and answering questions. Most would have run into the house, no comment, and slammed the door. He is pretty brave.
“They’re very impressed to know someone that writes”. If you can call what he does “writing” LMFAO, his roommates are pretty easily impressed.
I do have no doubt he’s a pedophile despite his protestations to the contrary.
Now that he and his house have appeared on the local news, who wants to bet on an over/under for vandalism, demonstration, assault or firebombing? Or, society’s greatest crime - apathy?
As long as we’re on the same page