Some rights should never be taken away.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Nards wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Nards wrote:
Aw X, this just perpetuates the notion that you disagree with people because you just want a good little fight.
The first thing to help your iconoclastic cause would’ve been to not call worzel a bloody lemming for holding the view that a book on pedophilia is bad.
[/quote]
Your post makes no sense. His personal opinion of a book he hasn’t read is irrelevant. I am against censorship based on differing values alone. I thought I made this clear.
I’ve got Magic Markers.[/quote]
You don’t know what censorship is then.
Censorship would be when you are forbidden forcibly from saying something.
If Amazon decides not to carry that book anymore, that’s actually the surest example of freedom. It’s their right not to carry that book because they can do what they want without being controlled by the government.
You see? I run circles around you logically.[/quote]
No, you don’t.
FREEDOM is allowing Amazon to sell whatever books they please without some national backlash that forces them to remove it from their list of sales.
People have the right to buy or NOT buy what they please.[/quote]
I agree with your general point about censorship but your logic above is flawed. Amazon as a business is perfectly situated to determine if selling a product is in their own best interest based on CONSUMER RESPONSE. Making a “business decision” is much different than censorship. Deciding not to carry a product because you think your business will suffer harm is good business - not censorship. Amazon is not a public library.[/quote]
My bad for using the word CENSORSHIP! I should have clarified my point and stated that Amazon (as a for profit business)should not sell or handle this book period!
The author can write whatever the fuck he wants, thats his own business.
Whether a publisher/distributer wants to handle this material is a matter for the publisher/distributer but you can be sure as hell that business wont be smooth running if they ever choose to do so as experienced by Amazon.
Just to reiterate’ this sick fuck can write whatever he wants to but dont expect me to be rejoicing about his freedom to do so or a business who chooses to profit off of sick shit material.
[quote]worzel wrote:
Just to reiterate’ this sick fuck can write whatever he wants to but dont expect me to be rejoicing about his freedom to do so or a business who chooses to profit off of sick shit material.[/quote]
I’m pretty sure no one is rejoicing about it dude. Don’t project shit onto the side you may not agree with to try and make your argument valid. Enough idiots around here project their own insecurities onto others as it is, don’t become like that.
Book sucks, author sucks, but it is a slippery slope once the state starts dictating what information gets out to the public.
Plus if this shit brings attention to the situation and starts helping the effort to protect kids, good. Getting all indignant on an internet forum is all well and good, but until this book was sold, how often did some of you council suicidal victims, or otherwise try and protect anyone’s kids?
Simple fact is kids get raped every day in this world. And no one gives shit about it unless some douche bag writes a book about it? But rather than do something constructive, lets just burn a book…
I don’t care what the author said was his aim for writing this book, it tells people how to get around the pedophilia laws. Which kissing and touching is okay, at what age you have to use a condom, stuff like that. That is NOT intended to help protect people! He was not writing this to parents, if he was, it would be titled “the parent’s guide to spotting and stopping pedophilia”, not the “PEDOPHILE’S GUIDE TO PEDOPHILIA.”
And his argument that pedophiles aren’t rapists and murderers? HELLO?!?!?!?! A pedophile takes away a child’s right to say no, shit, the child barely knows he/she can say no! They all use the “this is our secret, okay? If you tell people, they won’t believe you” shit. What kid would say no to a secret? Kids love secrets!
Amazon should never have agreed to sell this book and I’m glad society made them take it down.
I saw numerous references to child porn and its illegality to even view it and this is really a poor analogy for this topic. The illegality to view child porn is based upon some tortured legal wrangling by the Courts that basically puts forth the logic that, while acknowledging the viewer of the material did not necessarily commit the offense, that by criminalizing the very viewing of the material, it will diminish the demand for such material and therefore protect children somehow.
I do not support child pornography before anyone ventures a smart ass reply. However, the above is very tortured logic and I’m willing to bet making it illegal to view child pornography has not saved a single child. And before someone comes along and says I’m sympathizing with those that want to view child pornography, I am not. I am merely acknowledging the tortured logic of the law and, that the law is practically telling you what you can think, not only view.
Anyway, the above arguments really have nothing to do with this book in particular. If we want freedom, and I think we all agree we do, we have to tolerate books and material like this. If we do not want censorship, and I think we all agree we do not, we have to tolerate books and material like this. Why some of you might ask? Because no one can be the arbiter of acceptable material. If we allowed that, most forms of expression would be gone. Rock music? Much of it gone. Rap music? Except for Rapper’s Delight and other “happy rap”, gone. Porn? Gone. And where does it stop? Where do you draw the line once you start drawing lines. Where do we say no more? Well, that’s the problem with “slippery slopes”…you keep sliding down the hill, trampling rights as you go along. Books like this are the price we pay for those freedoms. I’d rather tolerate books like this than be told what I can read or view.
As someone pointed out earlier, this book is not going to make someone a pedophile. And we already have material all over the internet and elsewhere regarding how to make bombs and commit other crimes - and this material is protected freedom of expression. This book, save for whatever publicity it has drawn, is barely a blip on the literary radar - where it should remain.
As for pedophiles, I say we take them for long walks in the woods, to a place where their final resting place is already prepared, and leave them there, where they belong. Let them keep their books too…and I will try my very best to let them take those books with them to the great beyond if any harm ever came to my child. But that’s just me…
Now that I think of this subject, I find myself wondering if these deviants had some outlet for their deviant interest - if they could legally view child porn for instance, could it keep them from acting out their urges in “real life”? I don’t know. I do know that I find it very hard to believe that prosecuting the viewers of child porn has really saved any child. Every day, we hear about someone in our community caught with child porn on their computer, and rarely are they ever the ones that produced the material. I’d bet the number of arrests for viewing child porn greatly outnumbers the arrests for producing it. And there’s just something wrong with that.
I’m rambling…there’s a point there somewhere. No easy answers here, but there never are when principles of freedom are at stake.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
As someone pointed out earlier, this book is not going to make someone a pedophile.
[/quote]
Part of the problem as I see it, is that your claim above is not known. (I admit still not being too familiar with the content of this book in particular)
The premise that a pedophile is a pedophile and cannot be encouraged or created by media is not necessary true (or false) but it really is not understood so I don’t think anyone can claim one way or another.
Edited to add:
To that I’d sat the consumers of porn (any kind of porn) are the ones creating a demand for it. In addition, there seems to be a reasonable risk of normalizing and accepting unacceptable behavior.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
I saw numerous references to child porn and its illegality to even view it and this is really a poor analogy for this topic. The illegality to view child porn is based upon some tortured legal wrangling by the Courts that basically puts forth the logic that, while acknowledging the viewer of the material did not necessarily commit the offense, that by criminalizing the very viewing of the material, it will diminish the demand for such material and therefore protect children somehow.
I do not support child pornography before anyone ventures a smart ass reply. However, the above is very tortured logic and I’m willing to bet making it illegal to view child pornography has not saved a single child. And before someone comes along and says I’m sympathizing with those that want to view child pornography, I am not. I am merely acknowledging the tortured logic of the law and, that the law is practically telling you what you can think, not only view.
Anyway, the above arguments really have nothing to do with this book in particular. If we want freedom, and I think we all agree we do, we have to tolerate books and material like this. If we do not want censorship, and I think we all agree we do not, we have to tolerate books and material like this. Why some of you might ask? Because no one can be the arbiter of acceptable material. If we allowed that, most forms of expression would be gone. Rock music? Much of it gone. Rap music? Except for Rapper’s Delight and other “happy rap”, gone. Porn? Gone. And where does it stop? Where do you draw the line once you start drawing lines. Where do we say no more? Well, that’s the problem with “slippery slopes”…you keep sliding down the hill, trampling rights as you go along. Books like this are the price we pay for those freedoms. I’d rather tolerate books like this than be told what I can read or view.
As someone pointed out earlier, this book is not going to make someone a pedophile. And we already have material all over the internet and elsewhere regarding how to make bombs and commit other crimes - and this material is protected freedom of expression. This book, save for whatever publicity it has drawn, is barely a blip on the literary radar - where it should remain.
As for pedophiles, I say we take them for long walks in the woods, to a place where their final resting place is already prepared, and leave them there, where they belong. Let them keep their books too…and I will try my very best to let them take those books with them to the great beyond if any harm ever came to my child. But that’s just me…
Now that I think of this subject, I find myself wondering if these deviants had some outlet for their deviant interest - if they could legally view child porn for instance, could it keep them from acting out their urges in “real life”? I don’t know. I do know that I find it very hard to believe that prosecuting the viewers of child porn has really saved any child. Every day, we hear about someone in our community caught with child porn on their computer, and rarely are they ever the ones that produced the material. I’d bet the number of arrests for viewing child porn greatly outnumbers the arrests for producing it. And there’s just something wrong with that.
I’m rambling…there’s a point there somewhere. No easy answers here, but there never are when principles of freedom are at stake.[/quote]
OMG, I think I love you.
[quote]debraD wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
As someone pointed out earlier, this book is not going to make someone a pedophile.
[/quote]
Part of the problem as I see it, is that your claim above is not known. (I admit still not being too familiar with the content of this book in particular)
The premise that a pedophile is a pedophile and cannot be encouraged or created by media is not necessary true (or false) but it really is not understood so I don’t think anyone can claim one way or another.
[/quote]
“This is my attempt to make pedophile situations safer for those juveniles that find themselves involved in them, by establishing certian rules for these adults to follow. I hope to achieve this by appealing to the better nature of pedosexuals, with hope that their doing so will result in less hatred and perhaps liter sentences should they ever be caught.”
That’s from the MSNBC link, seems as if the author feels that the book is meant to give a code of conduct to pedophiles to legitimize them. Somehow I don’t think many pedophiles will read this book then say “well, guess I’m not going to kidnap children today!”.
[quote]debraD wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
As someone pointed out earlier, this book is not going to make someone a pedophile.
[/quote]
Part of the problem as I see it, is that your claim above is not known. (I admit still not being too familiar with the content of this book in particular)
The premise that a pedophile is a pedophile and cannot be encouraged or created by media is not necessary true (or false) but it really is not understood so I don’t think anyone can claim one way or another.
Edited to add:
To that I’d sat the consumers of porn (any kind of porn) are the ones creating a demand for it. In addition, there seems to be a reasonable risk of normalizing and accepting unacceptable behavior.
[/quote]
I said something like this in another thread. About if they had an outlet or whatever and I cannot think of it. I think it was in SAMA though.
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
As someone pointed out earlier, this book is not going to make someone a pedophile.
[/quote]
Part of the problem as I see it, is that your claim above is not known. (I admit still not being too familiar with the content of this book in particular)
The premise that a pedophile is a pedophile and cannot be encouraged or created by media is not necessary true (or false) but it really is not understood so I don’t think anyone can claim one way or another.
Edited to add:
To that I’d sat the consumers of porn (any kind of porn) are the ones creating a demand for it. In addition, there seems to be a reasonable risk of normalizing and accepting unacceptable behavior.
[/quote]
I said something like this in another thread. About if they had an outlet or whatever and I cannot think of it. I think it was in SAMA though.[/quote]
Yeah I think it was in the simpsons porn thread IIRC.
- Sell book.
- Monitor people who buy book.
- ???
- Profit!
[quote]Makavali wrote:
- Sell book.
- Monitor people who buy book.
- ???
- Profit![/quote]
hahaha!
Actually it would support the earlier post about the intelligence of pedophiles if that worked too.
[quote]debraD wrote:
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
As someone pointed out earlier, this book is not going to make someone a pedophile.
[/quote]
Part of the problem as I see it, is that your claim above is not known. (I admit still not being too familiar with the content of this book in particular)
The premise that a pedophile is a pedophile and cannot be encouraged or created by media is not necessary true (or false) but it really is not understood so I don’t think anyone can claim one way or another.
Edited to add:
To that I’d sat the consumers of porn (any kind of porn) are the ones creating a demand for it. In addition, there seems to be a reasonable risk of normalizing and accepting unacceptable behavior.
[/quote]
I said something like this in another thread. About if they had an outlet or whatever and I cannot think of it. I think it was in SAMA though.[/quote]
Yeah I think it was in the simpsons porn thread IIRC. [/quote]
Yeah, that was it! Thanx!
Can I make a book OUT of pedophiles and then sell it? Like run them through a meat grinder, dry out the mush that comes out the other end, bleach it and bake it in a kiln? Then I could just fill every page with the same saying over and over “fuck you pedophile! Now you ARE a book you asshole!” and I think it might be a best cellar too!
V
^^One more thing on that thought:
Do any of you guys out there think you could give up sex with women if only you have unfettered access to porn? I don’t think I could give up on sex with men, and in my experience, porn increases my appetite.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
- Sell book.
- Monitor people who buy book.
- ???
- Profit![/quote]
Wrong idea:
- Monitor people who buy book.
- Open a used car dealership.
- Sell them a Chevy g20.
True story:
There was a bit of a fuss on Halloween that some guy was giving out free candy from a parked van and I think the police were called. It ends up, our local cable company instructed it’s repair guys to park their vans and hand out candy to the kiddies to show some community spirit.
[quote]debraD wrote:
^^One more thing on that thought:
Do any of you guys out there think you could give up sex with women if only you have unfettered access to porn? I don’t think I could give up on sex with men, and in my experience, porn increases my appetite.[/quote]
OH, HELL NO!!!
Nothing can replace the real thing… NOTHING.
Hey… found a place to put my gif…
[quote]debraD wrote:
True story:
There was a bit of a fuss on Halloween that some guy was giving out free candy from a parked van and I think the police were called. It ends up, our local cable company instructed it’s repair guys to park their vans and hand out candy to the kiddies to show some community spirit.
[/quote]
Weren’t the vans marked?