Alpha Male Fashion

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Hey Varq, FYI, I just wrote the first few sentences of my Great American Novel. Maybe I will hire you as editor for the project.[/quote]

Really?

Good luck, my friend. It’s a helluva ride, and 99.99999 percent of the time, you don’t even get this lousy t-shirt. But it’s worth taking, I reckon.

One piece of advice: Pick up a book you really like and study a couple page’s worth of dialogue. Note how and how often attribution (e.g., "said Ishmael or, as I prefer, “Ishmael said”) is offered. Note when attribution is skipped completely. That is the one thing that (in my experience) doesn’t come naturally, even to a great writer.[/quote]

I need all the help I can git, I reckon. Bring it on.[/quote]

An interesting book in this regard is J.R., by William Gaddis. There is never any attribution in the dialog, and in fact almost no narration whatsoever. Each character just has their own unique quirks in how they speak, you can usually tell who is speaking solely based on their phrasing, or the context. It’s exhausting to read though

Excellent advice fromsmh. Orwell’s essay on writing is a must. Another writer I learned a lot from was Bernard Levin. You’d probably have trouble finding his stuff though.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Hey Varq, FYI, I just wrote the first few sentences of my Great American Novel. Maybe I will hire you as editor for the project.[/quote]

Really?

Good luck, my friend. It’s a helluva ride, and 99.99999 percent of the time, you don’t even get this lousy t-shirt. But it’s worth taking, I reckon.

One piece of advice: Pick up a book you really like and study a couple page’s worth of dialogue. Note how and how often attribution (e.g., "said Ishmael or, as I prefer, “Ishmael said”) is offered. Note when attribution is skipped completely. That is the one thing that (in my experience) doesn’t come naturally, even to a great writer.[/quote]

I need all the help I can git, I reckon. Bring it on.[/quote]

I think that’s great, Push. You have so many good stories, I’d love to see them on paper.

Good advice from SMH, and I’ll offer my own.

When I was a copywriter in Tokyo we had a junior copywriter who was a born comedian. Very funny guy. However, his writing was stilted, stiff, and not funny at all. It boggled my mind that there was such a disconnect between his speech and writing. But it’s a lot more common than you might imagine. People think that they have to be more proper and serious when they write, and perhaps that’s true for business communication, but it’s death for fiction.

I told him to take whatever he wrote, and read it out loud. If it sounded stupid or unnatural, I told him to change it until it was something that he would say. He balked at first, saying that what he would normally say didn’t seem serious enough, but I told him that was the point. If it sounds unnatural to the ear of the writer, it will sound twice as unnatural in the head of the reader. He finally started following this advice, and his writing got much better–and funnier–as a result.

This goes for all writing, but especially for fiction, double for dialogue, and quintuple for dialogue that incorporates any sort of regional dialect. In short, if “you” are narrating the story, write how you talk. And when you read the dialogue out loud, read it in the voice of the characters who say it. If it’s written exactly how they sound in your head, it’ll sound the same when you read it. But just to make sure, let someone else read it out loud to you. If their reading of it sounds like your character is supposed to sound, you are home free.

Another point: describing a scene is tricky. You can paint a lush verbal picture, meticulously covering every detail, or you can describe in very broad, stark strokes and let the reader fill in the details in his mind. There are pros and cons to both. My writing used to be lavishly descriptive, but advertising and screenwriting cured me of that. Short, pithy, concise phrases are best in most cases. Think Hemingway rather than Emily Bronte.

I’m looking forward to seeing what you’ve written. Maybe we can discuss my role as editor over some roasted meat and whiskey sometime soon.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]CLUNK wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

Good luck, my friend. It’s a helluva ride, and 99.99999 percent of the time, you don’t even get this lousy t-shirt. But it’s worth taking, I reckon.

[/quote]

Trying to fall asleep a couple nights I formulated the first few sentences in my head.

I had just concluded (for the second time in my life) Vardis Fisher’s “Mountain Man,” a literary masterpiece if I do say so myself. That book was the inspiration for the Jeremiah Johnston movie starring Robert Redford.

Have you read it?

I loved the book for its wordsmithing as well as the fact that I’ve been every single place mentioned in it and can picture all its scenes.[/quote]

Probably the best book I read as a kid. It transported me to the mountain. The movie didn’t com close to how the book made me feel… Redford or not.
[/quote]

For sure. The movie, as is often the case, fell far, far short.[/quote]

Yes. If I’ve really loved a book, the film adaptation is often painful to watch.

I was just going to say, you should absolutely write, Push. A strong sense of place is HUGE and you’ll certainly have that. A book would be great. Even a collection of short stories which may become a book. BTW, my son also has a strong sense of place. Probably from the contrast of growing up in suburban SoCal and spending time in the summer at my parent’s ranch. He’s started with poems and essays. One of his poems about New Mexico is being published soon. Not the same thing, but still kind of exciting.

You guys should start a writing thread.

Edited

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
This goes for all writing, but especially for fiction, double for dialogue, and quintuple for dialogue that incorporates any sort of regional dialect. In short, if “you” are narrating the story, write how you talk. And when you read the dialogue out loud, read it in the voice of the characters who say it. If it’s written exactly how they sound in your head, it’ll sound the same when you read it. But just to make sure, let someone else read it out loud to you. If their reading of it sounds like your character is supposed to sound, you are home free.[/quote]

Ah, yeah! This also serves the ancillary purpose of exposing the problem of characters who speak in the same voice and style, with the same word choices, etc. (If they are all the same age, from the same town, and grew up under the same circumstances, this is perhaps unavoidable, but it’s always good to try to switch’er up.)

Honestly, who among us is reading a book and just fucking loves the feeling when he discovers that the next page’s wall of text is a meticulous inventory of all the fussy little baubles sitting on a piece of furniture (which, of course, is also described in near-exact detail)? Nobody. The mind doesn’t like to hold all of that at once, because it really doesn’t matter.

I’ve noticed that the “Inventory of Baubles” method has become a shortcut by which not-great writers (usually fresh off the ridiculous MFA boat) hope to achieve a Faulknerian-McCarthian style. Of course, this is really the cheapest and most boring way to go about it.

Edit: Though I know to a moral certainty that your previously lavish writing was not like what I’ve described here, and this certainly wasn’t directed at you. Vivid prose can be absolutely great. It’s the detail-stuffed lists that get me.

Good idea, Powerpuff. Maybe we should.

FightingIrish is another professional writer on these forums whose work has really blossomed just in the time I’ve known him. He writes for a newspaper, and some of his pieces are spectacular. I’m sure he’d have a lot of good pointers.

Push, I can’t imagine that you haven’t read Cormac McCarthy, but if you haven’t, you should. Cortes gave me a copy of Blood Meridian, which is his favorite book, and it is a hell of a read. What is exceptional about McCarthy is his ability to convey scenes of utter brutality in a supremely understated, almost matter-of-fact manner, combined with a painstaking commitment to historical authenticity and a finely tuned ear for regional dialect. McCarthy, of course, also wrote The Road, The Councelor, and No Country for Old Men, but I think Blood Meridian is the one that will be of greatest value to you as you write your story, if it is the kind of story that I am imagining it is.

If you all start a writing thread I will be lurking the hell out of it. I am mostly an academic writer, but I have been playing with the idea of writing something fun. I will be watching to see if all you writers make a dedicated thread!

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Push, I can’t imagine that you haven’t read Cormac McCarthy, but if you haven’t, you should. Cortes gave me a copy of Blood Meridian, which is his favorite book, and it is a hell of a read. What is exceptional about McCarthy is his ability to convey scenes of utter brutality in a supremely understated, almost matter-of-fact manner, combined with a painstaking commitment to historical authenticity and a finely tuned ear for regional dialect. McCarthy, of course, also wrote The Road, The Councelor, and No Country for Old Men, but I think Blood Meridian is the one that will be of greatest value to you as you write your story, if it is the kind of story that I am imagining it is.[/quote]

Yep, well said. The landscapes, too. Strong emphasis on terrain and setting can bore me after a while. But never – never – with McCarthy. I sit there thinking, “I hope he describes a mountain soon.” Have you read Suttree? Very different – much funnier; more Faulknerian, too.

[quote]sjoconn wrote:
If you all start a writing thread I will be lurking the hell out of it. I am mostly an academic writer, but I have been playing with the idea of writing something fun. I will be watching to see if all you writers make a dedicated thread![/quote]

I would definitely enjoy that if there is enough interest!

Back to the topic of Alpha Male Fashion

[quote]wiggyadam wrote:
Back to the topic of Alpha Male Fashion

Interesting character. He has unique dress style too.

Money can’t buy class…

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
Money can’t buy class…[/quote]

But it can buy ass.

My understanding of “Candyman” is the entire thing is a dodge around anti-tobacco advertising. I think he takes the whores off his taxes.

[quote]wiggyadam wrote:
Back to the topic of Alpha Male Fashion

Oh, shit.

I think that’s SexMachine.

[quote]wiggyadam wrote:
Back to the topic of Alpha Male Fashion

Very well done.