[quote]boomerlu wrote:
Also, I believe Allah is simply the Arabic word for God.[/quote]
That is correct.
Wait a minute – a relgious thread on the politics forum. No, can’t be – and it wasn’t started by me.
Where is Vroom and Prof. X calling you a troll and complaining that this shouldn’t be here?
Where is Irish telling you that he is sick of organized religion and then throwing in a good choice 4-letter word?
I thought that they said that threads like these shouldn’t be here…seems a bit of hypocracy to me!
Oh, by the way…Jesus all the way!
[quote]boomerlu wrote:
Also, I believe Allah is simply the Arabic word for God.[/quote]
I agree with the above in the literal sense, but minus the word “simply”.
In a non-Arabic-language context, “Allah” implies Islam. Arab Christians might say “Allah” in the context of an Arab-language prayer; an Arab-language salutation; or an Arab-language discussion. But I doubt that any significant number of ethnic Arab Christians say “Allah” when they are praying in English, greeting in English, or discussing in English. Muslims, on the other hand, most likely always refer to God as “Allah” in any context in any language.
[quote]NealRaymond2 wrote:
I agree with the above in the literal sense, but minus the word “simply”.
In a non-Arabic-language context, “Allah” implies Islam. Arab Christians might say “Allah” in the context of an Arab-language prayer; an Arab-language salutation; or an Arab-language discussion. But I doubt that any significant number of ethnic Arab Christians say “Allah” when they are praying in English, greeting in English, or discussing in English. Muslims, on the other hand, most likely always refer to God as “Allah” in any context in any language.[/quote]
Incorrect, in everyday conversation and writing, Muslims refer to god as ‘God’(capitalized), and is often referred to as such by Imams when conversing in English, even though some traditionalists may still use the Arabic ‘Allah’.
[quote]Z-Man wrote:
NealRaymond2 wrote:
I agree with the above in the literal sense, but minus the word “simply”.
In a non-Arabic-language context, “Allah” implies Islam. Arab Christians might say “Allah” in the context of an Arab-language prayer; an Arab-language salutation; or an Arab-language discussion. But I doubt that any significant number of ethnic Arab Christians say “Allah” when they are praying in English, greeting in English, or discussing in English. Muslims, on the other hand, most likely always refer to God as “Allah” in any context in any language.
Incorrect, in everyday conversation and writing, Muslims refer to god as ‘God’(capitalized), and is often referred to as such by Imams when conversing in English, even though some traditionalists may still use the Arabic ‘Allah’.
[/quote]
I stand corrected with regards to my last sentence, “Muslims, on the other hand …”.
No arabic moon god for me please, I’ll stick with Jesus.
Jesus all the way.
[quote]InCorporeSano wrote:
I teach religious studies at a private Episcopal high school and I’m offering an Intro to Islam course this fall even though I myself am not a Muslim.
Nowhere in the Qur’an are believers instructed to kill non-believers. This sense of jihad as a purely physical, violent war is a perversion of Islam. The word in Arabic means “to exert utmost effort, to strive, struggle”. Muslim scholars identify several different types of jihad-- and, to be fair, one of them is violent-- but it is called for only when Muslims are prohibited from freely practicing their faith. I believe the US fought a little war over religious freedom itself some time ago. [/quote]
Actually, I thought the Qur’an had just such a missive about how to treat non-believers:
Qur’an 2:191 “And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. Disbelief is worse than killing. And fight not with them at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.”
[quote]Tokoya wrote:
InCorporeSano wrote:
I teach religious studies at a private Episcopal high school and I’m offering an Intro to Islam course this fall even though I myself am not a Muslim.
Nowhere in the Qur’an are believers instructed to kill non-believers. This sense of jihad as a purely physical, violent war is a perversion of Islam. The word in Arabic means “to exert utmost effort, to strive, struggle”. Muslim scholars identify several different types of jihad-- and, to be fair, one of them is violent-- but it is called for only when Muslims are prohibited from freely practicing their faith. I believe the US fought a little war over religious freedom itself some time ago.
Actually, I thought the Qur’an had just such a missive about how to treat non-believers:
Qur’an 2:191 “And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. Disbelief is worse than killing. And fight not with them at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.”[/quote]
Hey Genius, because you are such a scholar of islam, why don’t you also translate 2:190 and 2:192?
Every idiot uses 2:191 without taking the context of the prior and latter verse, and the context in which these were revealed.
[quote]Z-Man wrote:
Tokoya wrote:
InCorporeSano wrote:
I teach religious studies at a private Episcopal high school and I’m offering an Intro to Islam course this fall even though I myself am not a Muslim.
Nowhere in the Qur’an are believers instructed to kill non-believers. This sense of jihad as a purely physical, violent war is a perversion of Islam. The word in Arabic means “to exert utmost effort, to strive, struggle”. Muslim scholars identify several different types of jihad-- and, to be fair, one of them is violent-- but it is called for only when Muslims are prohibited from freely practicing their faith. I believe the US fought a little war over religious freedom itself some time ago.
Actually, I thought the Qur’an had just such a missive about how to treat non-believers:
Qur’an 2:191 “And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. Disbelief is worse than killing. And fight not with them at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.”
Hey Genius, because you are such a scholar of islam, why don’t you also translate 2:190 and 2:192?
Every idiot uses 2:191 without taking the context of the prior and latter verse, and the context in which these were revealed.[/quote]
Z-Man, read my post again.
My response was to the previous poster, that was having difficulty finding an area of the Quran that could be construed as enciting violence. I never said I was a scholar of islam.
I do have a functioning central nervous system however. Try keeping up with current events.
Since 9/11, I have noted a proclivity amongst a certain segment of “the religion of peace” as Muslims like to refer to it that consistantly use their teaching of their religion, imams, the Quran as justification for their violence.
For a “religion of peace”, a certain segment of them are very big on death.
[quote]Tokoya wrote:
Z-Man wrote:
Tokoya wrote:
InCorporeSano wrote:
I teach religious studies at a private Episcopal high school and I’m offering an Intro to Islam course this fall even though I myself am not a Muslim.
Nowhere in the Qur’an are believers instructed to kill non-believers. This sense of jihad as a purely physical, violent war is a perversion of Islam. The word in Arabic means “to exert utmost effort, to strive, struggle”. Muslim scholars identify several different types of jihad-- and, to be fair, one of them is violent-- but it is called for only when Muslims are prohibited from freely practicing their faith. I believe the US fought a little war over religious freedom itself some time ago.
Actually, I thought the Qur’an had just such a missive about how to treat non-believers:
Qur’an 2:191 “And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. Disbelief is worse than killing. And fight not with them at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.”
Hey Genius, because you are such a scholar of islam, why don’t you also translate 2:190 and 2:192?
Every idiot uses 2:191 without taking the context of the prior and latter verse, and the context in which these were revealed.
Z-Man, read my post again.
My response was to the previous poster, that was having difficulty finding an area of the Quran that could be construed as enciting violence. I never said I was a scholar of islam.
I do have a functioning central nervous system however. Try keeping up with current events.
Since 9/11, I have noted a proclivity amongst a certain segment of “the religion of peace” as Muslims like to refer to it that consistantly use their teaching of their religion, imams, the Quran as justification for their violence.
For a “religion of peace”, a certain segment of them are very big on death.
[/quote]
Z-Man, I would also add that in reference to your point below:
“Every idiot uses 2:191 without taking the context of the prior and latter verse, and the context in which these were revealed.”
Wouldn’t you say that Mohammed Att and the other 9-11 hijackers were “using” verse 2:191? Point being, it’s not me that you have to convince that Islam is so non-violent. I’d feel better if that sermon was directed to the various sleeper cells out there that still haven’t bought into the peace concept - yet.
[quote]Z-Man wrote:
Tokoya wrote:
InCorporeSano wrote:
I teach religious studies at a private Episcopal high school and I’m offering an Intro to Islam course this fall even though I myself am not a Muslim.
Nowhere in the Qur’an are believers instructed to kill non-believers. This sense of jihad as a purely physical, violent war is a perversion of Islam. The word in Arabic means “to exert utmost effort, to strive, struggle”. Muslim scholars identify several different types of jihad-- and, to be fair, one of them is violent-- but it is called for only when Muslims are prohibited from freely practicing their faith. I believe the US fought a little war over religious freedom itself some time ago.
Actually, I thought the Qur’an had just such a missive about how to treat non-believers:
Qur’an 2:191 “And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. Disbelief is worse than killing. And fight not with them at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.”
Hey Genius, because you are such a scholar of islam, why don’t you also translate 2:190 and 2:192?
Every idiot uses 2:191 without taking the context of the prior and latter verse, and the context in which these were revealed.[/quote]
“I was ordered to fight all men until they say ‘There is no God but Allah’.” - Mohammed’s farewell address, March 632
“I was ordered to fight the people until they say there is no God but Allah and his prophet Mohammed” - Osama bin Laden, November 2001
[quote]coolexec wrote:
“I was ordered to fight all men until they say ‘There is no God but Allah’.” - Mohammed’s farewell address, March 632
“I was ordered to fight the people until they say there is no God but Allah and his prophet Mohammed” - Osama bin Laden, November 2001
[/quote]
I’m not sure where you get your info, but find me this statement in the farewell address…
http://www.noornet.com/newsletter/Last%20Khutba.htm
Excerpt below…
[i]The Last Khutba (Sermon) of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
This Sermon was delivered on the Ninth Day of Dhul Hijjah 10 A.H. in the 'Uranah Valley of Mount Arafat
After praising, and thanking Allah he (PBUH) said:
"O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I don’t know whether, after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and take these words to those who could not be present here today.
O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your LORD, and that HE will indeed reckon your deeds. Allah has forbidden you to take usury (Interest), therefore all Interest obligation shall henceforth be waived. Your capital, however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer inequity. Allah has Judged that there shall be no interest and that all the interest due to Abbas ibn’ Abd’al Muttalib shall henceforth be waived…
Beware of Satan, for your safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.
O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under ALLAH’s trust and with HIS permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with any one of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste.
O People, listen to me in earnest, worship ALLAH, say your five daily prayers (Salah), fast during the month of Ramadhan, and give your wealth in Zakat. Perform Hajj if you can afford to.
All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.
Remember, one day you will appear before ALLAH and answer for your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.
O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand the words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QUR’AN and my example, the SUNNAH, and if you follow these you will never go astray.
All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O ALLAH, that I have conveyed YOUR message to YOUR people."[/i]
[quote]Tokoya wrote:
Wouldn’t you say that Mohammed Att and the other 9-11 hijackers were “using” verse 2:191? Point being, it’s not me that you have to convince that Islam is so non-violent. I’d feel better if that sermon was directed to the various sleeper cells out there that still haven’t bought into the peace concept - yet. [/quote]
I’d be surprised if any terrorist foot soldier has any Quranic knowledge at all.
Muhammad and the Qur’an, are the deepest source of inspiration for today’s jihadists with their path to the Muslim paradise, ar Janna, being secured only by killing and being killed for Allah. Mohammad was, in fact, the archetypal Islamic terrorist.
“I have been made victorious with terror” (Sahi Bukhari V4B52N220)
“I shall terrorise the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them, because they oppose Allah and his apostle.” (Qur’an 8:12)
“Killing unbelievers is a small matter to us” (al-Tabari IX:69)
“Paradise lies under the shade of swords” (Sahi Bukhari V4B5N73)
“The believers fight in Allah’s cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed” (Qur’an 9:111)
"Muhammad said, ‘You are commanded to carry out jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam’ " (Qur’an 47:4)
…
Koran = KILLKILLKILL/LOVELOVELOVE
Bible = KILLKILLKILL/LOVELOVELOVE
All religions are two faced. Get over it.
Muslims are just a bit behind. a few centuries ago, Christianity was just as bad, if not relativly worse (considering the amount killed with the lack of technology).
Both Muslims and Christians ignore the preachings of their core prophets daily.
[quote]Z-Man wrote:
NealRaymond2 wrote:
I agree with the above in the literal sense, but minus the word “simply”.
In a non-Arabic-language context, “Allah” implies Islam. Arab Christians might say “Allah” in the context of an Arab-language prayer; an Arab-language salutation; or an Arab-language discussion. But I doubt that any significant number of ethnic Arab Christians say “Allah” when they are praying in English, greeting in English, or discussing in English. Muslims, on the other hand, most likely always refer to God as “Allah” in any context in any language.
Incorrect, in everyday conversation and writing, Muslims refer to god as ‘God’(capitalized), and is often referred to as such by Imams when conversing in English, even though some traditionalists may still use the Arabic ‘Allah’.
[/quote]
The bible and the Koran refer to the same exact God. The Koran says this specifically, even calling Jesus one of God’s important prophets.
I have many Muslim friends who say God over Allah because they speak English as a first, as opposed to second language.
[quote]Z-Man wrote:
Tokoya wrote:
Wouldn’t you say that Mohammed Att and the other 9-11 hijackers were “using” verse 2:191? Point being, it’s not me that you have to convince that Islam is so non-violent. I’d feel better if that sermon was directed to the various sleeper cells out there that still haven’t bought into the peace concept - yet.
I’d be surprised if any terrorist foot soldier has any Quranic knowledge at all.
[/quote]
Prepare to be surprised I guess.
I’d wager that the men who killed 3,000 people on 9/11 in all likelihood died saying prayers to Allah.
Whatever they got out of the Quran was anything but peaceful. I know it’s a very small minority of the whole population. But this small % have very unsavory plans for us Kafirs.
“The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother’s keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.”
[quote]Tokoya wrote:
Z-Man wrote:
Tokoya wrote:
Wouldn’t you say that Mohammed Att and the other 9-11 hijackers were “using” verse 2:191? Point being, it’s not me that you have to convince that Islam is so non-violent. I’d feel better if that sermon was directed to the various sleeper cells out there that still haven’t bought into the peace concept - yet.
I’d be surprised if any terrorist foot soldier has any Quranic knowledge at all.
Prepare to be surprised I guess.
I’d wager that the men who killed 3,000 people on 9/11 in all likelihood died saying prayers to Allah.
Whatever they got out of the Quran was anything but peaceful. [/quote]
Same principle applies.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
“The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother’s keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.”
Tokoya wrote:
Z-Man wrote:
Tokoya wrote:
Wouldn’t you say that Mohammed Att and the other 9-11 hijackers were “using” verse 2:191? Point being, it’s not me that you have to convince that Islam is so non-violent. I’d feel better if that sermon was directed to the various sleeper cells out there that still haven’t bought into the peace concept - yet.
I’d be surprised if any terrorist foot soldier has any Quranic knowledge at all.
Prepare to be surprised I guess.
I’d wager that the men who killed 3,000 people on 9/11 in all likelihood died saying prayers to Allah.
Whatever they got out of the Quran was anything but peaceful.
Same principle applies.[/quote]
zing!