pope doesn’t tell catholics to kill muslims…
Crusades? hello? And in the crusades the muslims treated their christian prisoners with respect where the christian warriors killed men woman and children… And this was 100s of years before whats going on right now…
Reguardless this is a good reason not to like any religion “you dont like my god, now i stab you”
Really guys, I would just love it if everyone could come to their senses and realize that there is no God until someone comes along and imagines him/her/it. Honestly, the fairies of Bubbleyum forest are just as real as the idea of an almighty creator bouncing around on the clouds with a bunch of smiling, harp-wielding, winged hippies. And yes, I know I’m a smart-ass, but jeez! A bunch of crazy religious fruitcakes throwing around grenades and strapping bombs to themselves are making it pretty irritating to get through this life lately. Things are tough enough already, ya know? I don’t care if it’s jesus, allah, jehovah, krishna, buddha, sheba, or some other name ending in -ah, y’all need to get a grip.
i just wanted to post this for your guys digestion. it is from www.free-minds.org a muslim website. it has an interesting perspective because it rejects the hadith (a collection of stories about the prophet muhammed) and only follow the quran.
you would be surprised to see what really is not in the quran and what is.
anyways, here is the article.
One of the most seriously misunderstood aspects of Islam is it’s position on fighting. This stems both from a widespread, general ignorance of Islam and a tendency to view the violent behavior of groups and individuals with only nominal ties to Islam as representative of Islam. For Muslims, the Qur’an contains God’s own words and is not the work of inspired men. It is therefore, the ultimate authority which defines the beliefs and practices of Islam.
Often, people take verses, or parts of verses from the Qur’an, ignoring context and related verses, to make Islam appear warlike and violent, or to justify hostility and aggression. But a careful examination of the Qur’an yields a very different view.
The word jihaad is familiar to most Americans and seems to evoke images of wild eyed, fanatics slaughtering infidels in a holy war. But what is the Qur’anic concept of jihaad and how does it relate to war and fighting? There is no concept of holy war (al-Harb almuqaddas) in the Qur’an.
The noun jihaad occurs 4 times in the Qur’an. The verb jaahada (to struggle, strive) in various forms appears 29 times. None of these refers directly to fighting, let alone specifically to military action.
In 14 of the 29 places the verb jaahada appears in the Qur’an, striving in the cause of God is used in very a very general context as a quality of those who believe. Many of these verses have nearly identical wording:
alatheena amanuu wa haajaruu wa jaahaduu fi sabeelallah bi amwalihim wa anfusihim. [those who believe and emigrate and strive in the cause of God with their wealth and their selves] (2:218; 3:142; 5:57; 8:72,74,75; 9:16,20,44,88 ; 16:110; 29:6,69; 49:15).
Two other instances tell how hypocrites hate to strive in God’s cause and try to avoid it (9:81,86). Where the Qur’an specifically commands striving, there is no reference to warfare (5:38, 9:41,73, 22:78, 25:52, 66:9).
Verses 29:8 and 31:15 give believers permission to disobey parents who strive (jaahadaa) to make them associate partners with God. Even under such circumstances the believer is ordered to be considerate and just toward the parents.
We learn from the Qur’an that believers must be willing to exert great efforts in the cause of God, using our wealth and ourselves. These efforts (jihaad) may, or may not include fighting (qitaal). Fighting is called for only under certain circumstances and then, is strictly regulated in the Qur’an.
One often misused verse is 2:216;
“Fighting is prescribed for you and it is hateful to you. It is possible that you hate a thing that is good for you, and that you love a thing that is bad for. God knows and you do not know.”
But this is, by no means the only verse that deals with fighting. What else does the Qur’an say about fighting? When, where, why, how, and with whom is fighting allowed? We find fighting commanded in these words:
Fight in the cause of God THOSE WHO FIGHT YOU. But DO NOT COMMIT EXCESSES. God does not love those who commit excesses. And slay them where encounter them. And expel them FROM WHERE THEY EXPELLED YOU. Unrest and oppression are worse than killing. Do not fight them at the sacred mosque, unless they fight you there. But IF THEY FIGHT YOU, slay them. Such is the reward of the disbelievers. (2:190-191 emphasis added).
These verses order fighting only those who fight you, suggesting only defensive combat. This is supported by the verses immediately following:
BUT IF THEY CEASE, God is Forgiving, Merciful, and Fight them UNTIL THERE IS NO MORE UNREST OR OPPRESSION and religion is for God. But if they cease, LET THERE BE NO HOSTILITY EXCEPT TO OPPRESSORS (2:192-193 emphasis added).
Combat is not limited to self-defense, however, but also includes defense of others;
And why should you not fight in the cause of God and THE WEAK AND OPPRESSED AMONG MEN, WOMEN, AND CHILDREN who say, “Our Lord rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors. And give us from You, a protector. And give us from You, a helper” (4:75 emphasis added).
The Qur’an indicates whom to fight, as we saw in 2:193 above. It also details specific behaviors in which they engage that justify fighting them:
The unbelievers plotted to resist you, or kill you or, expel you…The unbelievers spend their wealth to hinder (people) from the path of God…They are those with whom you made a covenant. BUT THEY BREAK THEIR COVENANT EVERY TIME and they are not conscious of God…But IF THEY VIOLATE THEIR OATH SAFTER THEIR COVENANT, AND DEFAME YOU FOR YOUR FAITH, fight the leaders of the unbelievers. For their oaths mean nothing to them. Perhaps they will be restrained. Will you not fight people who VIOLATED THEIR OATHS AND PLOTTED TO EXPEL THE MESSENGER, and ATTACKED YOU FIRST?(8:30, 36, 56, 9:12-13 emphasis added).
Knowing when to stop fighting is also critical and is dealt with by the Qur’an in no uncertain terms:
And fight them UNTIL THERE IS NO MORE UNREST AND OPPRESSION, and religion is for God… But IF THEY LEAN TOWARD PEACE, YOU LEAN TOWARD PEACE and trust in God. He is the Hearer, the Knower (8:39, 61 emphasis added).
Finally, the Qur’an calls for good relations with all who uphold their treaties and do not fight against the Muslims:
As long as they stand true to you, stand true to them. For God loves the pious…God DOES NOT FORBID YOU, regarding THOSE WHO DO NOT FIGHT YOU FOR THE RELIGION, NOR EXPEL YOU FROM YOUR HOMES, FROM DEALING WITH THEM KINDLY AND JUSTLY. For God loves the just (9:7, 60:8 emphasis added).
These and other verses in the Qur’an make it clear that fighting is required in self-defense, or in defense of the weak and oppressed. But aggression is forbidden and fighting is allowed only against direct combatants, or their active supporters.
just one more…
“And kill them wherever you find them…” (Quran 2:191)
The above part of a verse has been duplicated in countless sites and many publications to be used as a testimony for the ‘violence’ and cruelty that is encouraged by the words of the Quran…
In this article, we will dispel the myths surrounding warfare in the Quran and show exactly ‘what’ the GOD of Submission (Islam) teaches.
"You may fight in the cause of GOD those who fight you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors. (2:190)
“They question you with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great (transgression), but to turn (men) from the way of GOD, and to disbelieve in Him and in the Inviolable Place of Worship, and to expel His people thence, is a greater with GOD; for persecution is worse than killing. And they will not cease from fighting against you till they have made you renegades from your religion, if they can. And he who becomes renegade and dies in his disbelief: such are they whose works have fallen both in the world and the Hereafter. Such are rightful owners of the Fire: they will abide therein.” (2:217)
Contrary to the wishes of many who would rather picture Islam as a warmongering system, the Quran does not allow warfare except in ‘self-defense’.
"And kill them where you find them, and evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque, unless they fight you therein. If they fight you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those who disbelieve. (2:191)
Look again at that fearful verse used at the beginning of this article…
Well, it happens to be a direct continuation from 2:190 where people are told to fight is self defense. We are allowed to fight and kill those who fight and kill us, and to evict them from where they evicted us…Sanctuary is given at the Holy Shrine, however, this is not-valid if they continue to fight at this sacred location.
"You shall prepare for them all the power you can muster, and all the equipment you can mobilize, that you may frighten the enemies of GOD, your enemies, as well as others who are not known to you; GOD knows them. Whatever you spend in the cause of GOD will be repaid to you generously, without the least injustice. (8:60)
The Quran is a book of life, and a book of wisdom. The above verse encourages a strategy of displaying forces and making sure everyone is aware of them. This is usually the best deterrent to avoid warfare and makes those with ill intentions think twice about beginning a war or attacking out of feeling superior.
“Warfare has been ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. GOD knows, but you do not know.” 2:216
"O you prophet, you shall exhort the believers to fight. If there are twenty of you who are steadfast, they can defeat two hundred, and a hundred of you can defeat a thousand of those who disbelieved. That is because they are people who do not understand. (8:65)
To make it clear from the beginning, Islam as a system invites people to stand ready to fight at all times…The Quran does not adapt a ‘walk-away’ attitude, but puts aggressors down from the beginning and demands its followers to be aware of such responsibilities.
"…As for those who believe, but do not emigrate with you, you do not owe them any support, until they do emigrate. However, if they seek your help, as brethren in faith, you shall help them, except against people with whom you have signed a peace treaty. GOD is Seer of everything you do. (8:72)
"And why should you not fight in the cause of God and the weak and oppressed among men, women, and children who say, “Our Lord rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors. And give us from You, a protector. And give us from You, a helper” (4:75).
Believers who are attacked may seek help and military action may be used in these cases. The exception is clearly if a treaty exists with the country/people who are housing them and the conditions of such treaty has not been broken (see 9:1-15 for dealing with broken treaties).
“And strive (Jahidu) in the cause of GOD as it deserves striving (Jihad)” (22:78)
Jihad is thought of in the West and even in some Islamic circles as ‘Holy War’. In-fact, the word as per its usage in GOD’s holy book means ‘To Strive’:
“But the messenger and those with him strove/jahadu with thier money and their lives…” (9"88)
“GOD has preferred those who strive/mujahideen with thier money and thier lives over those who sat…” (4:95)
Even your parents can ‘strive’ against you:
“And if they strive/jahadaak that you set-up partners with Me that which you hav no knoledge of, do not obey them…” (29:8, 31:15)
Obviously your parents are not doing a ‘holy war’ against you.
“…if you are attacked, then you shall attack by the same equivalence. And reverence GOD and know that GOD is with the righteous” (2:194)
"And if you punish, you shall inflict an equivalent punishment. But if you resort to patience (instead of revenge), it would be better for the patient ones. (16:26)
This is the law for equivalence. If 100 of your soldiers are killed, then a maximum 100 of the enemies soldiers may be killed…You cannot kill more than has been killed with you, and if you hold-off and are not quick to seek revenge, then it is always better.
"O you who believe, if you encounter the disbelievers who have mobilized against you, do not turn back and flee. Anyone who turns back on that day, except to carry out a battle plan, or to join his group, has incurred wrath from GOD, and his abode is Hell; what a miserable destiny! (8:15-16)
Although there is no law against desertion from the battle field, those who believe in GOD would not be very smart to do so as the consequences are related to the after-life.
"… Some of them you killed, and some you took captive. (33:26)
"O you prophet, tell the prisoners of war in your hands, “If GOD knew of anything good in your hearts, He would have given you better than anything you have lost, and would have forgiven you. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.” (8:70)
In the laws of GOD, prisoners can be taken during warfare and held until such time as there release is possible. Prisoners are neither to be killed nor tortured…these are not practices which have any legitimacy.
"They consult you about the spoils of war. Say, “The spoils of war belong to GOD and the messenger.” You shall observe GOD, exhort one another to be righteous, and obey GOD and His messenger, if you are believers. (8:1)
"He made you inherit their land, their homes, their money, and lands you had never stepped on. GOD is in full control of all things. (33:27)
Spoils of war belong to the state to be distributed as per the Quranic requirements (orphans, needy. etc…). The land and goods of enemies is confiscated in these battles.
“If they refrain, then GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.” (2:192)
"If they seek peace, so shall you, and put your trust in GOD. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient. (8:61)
This is the GOD of Submission…A GOD who only allows violence when it is carried out against a person, and is quick to call for peace once the violence is ended.
There can be no justification for war and killing to continue simply because it was started by means of aggression…
“You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the system of truth-among those who received the scripture-until they pay the penalty, willingly or unwillingly.” (9:29)
Sura 9 deals with the breaking of treaties and warfare. The penalty for those who have have broken the law and have fought against the believers is to pay ‘compensation’ for their action.
Reconciliation of Believers.
“If two groups of believers fought with each other, you shall reconcile them. If one group aggresses against the other, you shall fight the aggressing group until they submit to GOD’s command. Once they submit, you shall reconcile the two groups equitably. You shall maintain justice; GOD loves those who are just.” (49:9)
Although this does not deal with warfare directly, it lays the ground for what to do when two groups of believers fight.
Final Reminder.
“…anyone who kills any person who had not committed murder or horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he killed all the people. And anyone who spares a life, it shall be as if he spared the lives of all the people…” (5:32)
If you have read any hatred post longer than 100 words on a forum of any language, you’ll find the striking similarity. “Every XXXese/ish/an should read this!”, “If you love your country, come in and read this!”, “If you are a patriot, spread this around!”, and also, of course, full of slandering bullshit. Most of them are made up. This would be most likely the same.
Yes, “TheRed1” it would be wonderful if Muslims around the world have distilled their religion and texts to what you have posted. We’re still waiting.
(P.S. of course you realize that you haven’t posted the boatload of quotes in the Koran that context does not ameiliorate?)
OOOOPPPPPSSSS!!! I meant to also post an opposing article (I think someone else did) along with this one. It obviously didn’t work. Sorry folks. This does not reflect my views. My point was to show how easily shit gets twisted. The funny thing is I did this on another forum and got the same response. oh well, time to brush up on the cut and paste skills.