DJS, I would like to ammend your analogy. You slam the door in the police’s face. At which point, the SWAT team kicks your door in, suffers casualties, and secures the premises. After ransacking the place finding no weapons and despite their losses, they fix your door and your plumbing, make sure there’s food in the fridge, and promise to help you get your life back in order after this ordeal. I’ll resume lurking now, thanks.
Ferrum, amen!!!
Okay, to use your Cops analogy… The police do not have the right to break down anybody’s door that they want. They need a search warrant. And if their search warrant was cooked up based on bogus information, that is extremely wrong.
Like it or not, Saddam Hussein was the recognized leader of a sovereign nation. What the US did is a violation of international law.
The US coddles worse people than Saddam. Hell, we propped the guy up for decades. We are coddling other brutal regimes right now. So nobody should get all righteous about the US “doing the right thing” because if we wouldn’t have been doing the wrong thing for so long, we wouldn’t be in this mess we’re in. Spare me the “Two wrongs don’t make a right” comment, that logic may work within the world-view of a five-year old, but not when it comes to foreign policy and international diplomacy.
Lumpy is right, all the rhetoric of “getting a brutal dictator out of power” or the “iraqi people being better off” just doesn’t logically make sense, given the regimes we tolerate.
Let’s just be truthful, ok? I can accept that. We invaded Iraq, not because of an “imminent” threat of WMD’s (though they had the programs), and not because Hussein was evil (though he was), but according to the long term political strategy of the Wolfowitz Defense Department - long term change in the Middle East, withdrawl of US troops from Saudi Arabia, foothold in the middle east.
I may not agree that these reasons are just, but I can understand the rationale behind them. I’m just tired of all this transaprent rhetoric bullshit. Freedom, justice, blah blah blah. Politics has never been about these things, and never will be. Politics is about power, protection, and wealth.
Lumpy, you aren’t by any chance a college professor are you?
im not going to debate your bogus information comment. beleive it all you want but the warrant is there. and he didn’t cooperate. That is all he had to do. We warned him what would happen and he tested if we would really do it. We did. Its done. Millions of Iraqis will be better off and thousands more won’t be slaughtered by Saddam and his two sons.
bad guys (lumpy, iscariot, rumbach, etc…),
You guys stun me!!! You tend to have no trouble taking a piece of information and extrapolating to the Nth degree when you think some fact suits your anti-American arguments. BUT, when faced with a piece of information that clearly points not only to deception and intent to produce banned weapons, you cannot make the intellectual leap to take it a step further. REITERATION: (1)SADDAM SUPPORTED TERRORISTS. (2) THESE TERRORISTS HATED THE UNITED STATES (3)SADDAM USED CHEMICAL WEAPONS AGAINST IRAN AND HIS OWN PEOPLE. (4) SADDAM WAS THROWN OUT OF KUWAIT BY AN AMERICAN LED INVASION (5) SADDAM HATED THE UNITED STATES.
Why in the name of God can’t you put those pieces together? Why can’t you see the threat? I’m just baffled and bemused by your blinders. There is no propaganda here. Just plain facts. No contextual arguments. Let me make it real simple for the morons: Why hide plans, parts, and scientists if the same items were not going to be used later? Can’t you people figure out that this is just the tip of the iceberg? I want to hear each one of you say publically whether saddam had wmd’s. I want you on record. No bullshit, just yes or no. If he had them, he was in violation. If he had them, then he was a threat as obviously shown by my boldfaced facts above. He therefore, needed to be dealt with. Another point, I would hate to be one of you cynics who believes in nothing. I’m waiting for a better solution than the Iraq War. If you are going to say we should have let weapons inspectors inspect longer, do not bother to respond. How many millions of years would it have taken blix and the boys to find the articles we have just recovered?
I don’t think any country has broken more UN Resolutions than Israel. Why doesn’t the US invade and disarm them?
Because there are a bazillion jews in the US, and they wouldn’t approve.
Besides everything any jew ever does is justifiable. Just think of the second world war.
/Jacob
"If you are going to say we should have let weapons inspectors inspect longer, do not bother to respond. How many millions of years would it have taken blix and the boys to find the articles we have just recovered? "
You mean the big rose bush discovery? That’s a real big haul there.
All that is is “intellectual property”. There are scientists walking around with worse information in their heads, in every country in the world.
Also, there is no link between Saddam and 9-11 or Osama Bin Laden or Al-Qaeda.
And remember, what we were promised by Bush is that Iraq has the “most lethal WMD” in the history of mankind, that pose an imminent threat to us NOW. The “most lethal” WMDs are nuclear warheads (not mustard gas). So yes, I’ll go on record as saying “I don’t think he has any”.
Gee US=GG, you don’t sound nearly as cocky as you did a month ago…
The hubris of u.s. propaganda never rests.
100%alberta beef: I don’t know, the u.s. has broken many resolutions or maybe we just exclude ourselves from them. At any rate we ought to invade ourselves using the logic that was used to invade Iraq.
It is interesting to note that the u.n. atomic agency says that this “finding” appears to back it’s stance that the program had never been reactivated. These comments seem to highlight the ongoing dispute between the u.n. and washington.
Opps hit the submit button too soon. The u.s. has said that such programs exsisted in going to war against bagdad, while the u.n. inspectors said their searches on the ground turned up no evidence of such programs. A u.s. intelligence offical acknowledged the find was not the smoking gun the u.s. authorities are seeking to prove u.s. claims that iraq had an active program to develop a nuclear weapon.
The I.A.E.A. went further saying the evidence backed it’s arguement that there was no evidence of such revived programs. An agency spokesman said “the findings and comments fron Obedi appear to confirm there have been no post-1991 nuclear weapons program in iraq and are consistent with reports from the securtiy council”
The I.A.E.A. had long monitored iraq’a nuke program and has questioned the u.s. claim that saddam has been reviving the program.
The head if the I.A.E.A. said there is noevidence to support u.s. claims and other u.n. inspectors found no signs of bio/chem weapons.
Assembled these components would not be useful in making enough uranium. Hundreds of centrifuges are necessary to make enough to construct a nuclear weapon.
Of course you can’t look to CNN to tell you these things as they are a part of the u.s. propaganda machine.
I urge evryone to read the foreign press after you recieve your indoctrination of the u.s. daily “news”. Then you can see two different points of view and be better equipped to help find the truth in the matter.
Excellent recommendation Zeppelin!
Seeing a variety of news sources is essential in getting a better idea of what really is happening.
the BBC & Guardian UK are pretty good places to look.