Airstrike on Syria

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]
BostonBarrister wrote:
You really should lay off the sauce so early in the day…

Firstly, note the lack of reaction by the moderate Arab countries in the region, who are normally quick to condemn any such action by the Israelis.

Secondly, the Syrians don’t seem to be very interested in letting anyone in to see the bombed site and confirm it was an unwarranted aggression.

JustTheFacts wrote:
It WAS an unwarranted aggression – if thats an excuse, then Syria, Iran or Egypt would be rightfully able to “pre-emptively” bomb Israel under this logic.[/quote]

Firstly, it wouldn’t be pre-emptive as your post implies to bomb them decades after they attained the technology.

Generally, to proliferate means to grow or spread.

Thus a policy of general nonproliferation means that countries that currently don’t have nuclear technology are to be stopped from obtaining it. That’s the general international policy, as favored by the U.N. security counsel.

It’s not a policy of nonpossession – and it’s pretty easy to see that such a policy would be quite difficult to enforce in any event.

India and Pakistan have generally been ignored under nonproliferation - the cat’s out of the bag with them. Israel falls in that same category. This is simple realism. One might argue it’s realism to just accept that technology is advancing to the point that one cannot reasonably expect to stymie any country’s development of nuclear weapons technology, but enough people disagree with that to keep nonproliferation as a policy.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Lastly, I wouldn’t doubt this was meant as a message to the Iranians – and neither would they: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1189411419433&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull ; http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070919/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_israel_7

JustTheFacts wrote:
Yes, beware the pre-emptive strike by the nation of peace…[/quote]

Who said anything about Israel being a nation of peace? It’s a nation that perceives itself - rightfully in many cases - as being under constant threat from its neighbors. Those neighbors who, at least rhetorically, support wiping Israel off of the map: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/27/AR2005102702221.html

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
BTW, I think you’ll recall that those Arab countries did band together back in the 60s and 70s to attack the Israelis and got their heads handed to them on a platter. Or was that all staged, part of the grand Jewish conspiracy?

JustTheFacts wrote:
You probably shouldn’t learn your history from the Weekly Standard…

1967: Israel launches attack on Egypt
Israeli forces have launched a pre-emptive attack on Egypt and destroyed nearly 400 Egypt-based military aircraft.

“The USS Liberty Memorial Web Site honors the memory of thirty four Americans who were brutally killed aboard a United States Ship in international waters on June 8, 1967, by the air and naval forces of the state of Israel.”

And when Israel uses nuclear weapons in their next “pre-emptive” strike to pre-emptively stop other countries from producing nuclear weapons, you still won’t get it.

Growing Dissent among American Jews

You probably should learn your history somewhere…

I note you reference one of the Wars, the Six Day War - in which Israel launched a pre-emptive strike on Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian forces, respectively, that were being built up on Israel’s border, which Israel considered causus belli, with good reason: Six-Day War - Wikipedia

And you’ve managed to forget about the Yom Kippur War, in which Egyptian and Syrian forces launched a surprise attack during the high Jewish holy days and were subsequently routed: Yom Kippur War - Wikipedia

22

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
I think Syria’s low key handling of this indicates they had something to hide. Otherwise we would be plastered with photos of the “innocent” target.

Plastered by who? Murdoch?

He doesn’t control all the media. Show me where al Jazeera is covering the story with real detail on the target. [/quote]

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/newsfull.php?newid=37421

Nothing about the target though.

23

Imagine that, Lixy being anti-Israel, you act like Syria is the land of cotton candy and gumdrops, they freaking harbor terrorists. I hope Israel and the U.S. bomb Iran, and Afghanistan, and Iraq, and we’re going to North Korea, and Sudan, and then were going to Washinton D.C. to take back the White House, BYAAAAAAAAAAH.

24

[quote]lixy wrote:
Saddam couldn’t have attacked America in a million years, and you have the audacity to compare both events?[/quote]

So, Saddam couldn’t have attacked America in a million years. Who’da (intentionally mispelled btw) thought Afghanistan could have attacked us in a million years? Or terrorists living in their country?

In another thread you say: “If America (the thread is about France incidently) strikes Iran, they will retaliate by setting off bombs in your cities…”

You mean to tell me that reasonably Al-Qaeda, a bunch of terrorists, could attack us, and Iran also has the capabilites to attack us, but Saddam, who had a strong military in the ME could not harm us in a million years?

25

[quote]pat36 wrote:

Let’s see, Syria is home to both Hamas and Hezbolah.

Fuck Syria.[/quote]

Do not know if they live there, but Syria is funding both organizations.

26

[quote]lixy wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
BTW, didn’t GWB appeal to the UN at least twice prior to the Iraq invasion? How’d that work out?

What the fuck is the matter with you? Are you retarted?[/quote]

Intelligent retort

I had the audacity to hope that the UN could actually be effective, even willing, to enforce it’s own resolutions. I was very wrong. My point to you is that the UN is an incapable, impotant orginization.

My reference to Bush’s visits to the UN was that they were unwilling and incapable to enforce it’s own resolutions and sanctions upon Saddam. What would have happened if the UN had been tough and straightforward with their handling of Saddam? Would the US have invaded Iraq in such a case? Golly, what if the UN was capable of doing what it’s actually supposed to do?

We’ll never know.

Also, I think that Zap has a good point. What about the strange handling of this incident by Syria? I think it possibly says alot. We’ve still never proven that WMD’s weren’t shipped out to Syria prior to the invasion. I don’t care what relationship Saddam had with any of his neighbors. He would have sooner gotten rid of them to surrounding Arab countries rather than look the fool on an international stage when the inevitable US invasion came.

27

They think it might have been a trial run for penetrating Irans air defenses. Syria and Iran recently purchased the latest Russian made air defrense system that the Russians claimed could not be jammed.

http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1301

DEBKAfile�??s military experts conclude from the way Damascus described the episode Wednesday, Sept. 6, that the Pantsyr-S1E missiles, purchased from Russia to repel air assailants, failed to down the Israeli jets accused of penetrating northern Syrian airspace from the Mediterranean the night before.

The new Pantsyr missiles therefore leave Syrian and Iranian airspace vulnerable to hostile intrusion.

The Israeli plane or planes were described by a Syrian military spokesman as �??forced to leave by Syrian air defense fire after dropping ammunition over deserted areas without causing casualties.�?? He warned �??the Israeli enemy against repeating its aggressive action�?? and said his government reserved the right to respond in an appropriate manner.

Western intelligence circles stress that information on Russian missile consignments to Syria or Iran is vital to any US calculation of whether to attack Iran over its nuclear program. They assume that the �??absolute jamming immunity�?? which the Russian manufactures promised for the improved Pantsyr missiles was immobilized by superior electronic capabilities exercised by the jets before they were �??forced to leave.�??

Syria took delivery in mid-August of 10 batteries of sophisticated Russian Pantsyr-S1E Air Defense Missile fire control systems with advanced radar, those sources report. They have just been installed in Syria.

Understanding that the Pantsyr-S1E had failed in its mission to bring down trespassing aircraft, Moscow hastened Thursday, Sept 6, to officially deny selling these systems to Syria or Iran and called on Israel to respect international law. This was diplomatic-speak for a warning against attacking the Russian-made missiles batteries stations where Russian instructors are working alongside Syrian teams.

Western intelligence circles maintain that it is vital for the US and Israel to establish the location and gauge the effectiveness of Pantsyr-S1E air defenses in Syrian and Iranian hands, as well as discovering how many each received.

They estimate that at least three or four batteries of the first batch of ten were shipped to Iran to boost its air defense arsenal; another 50 are thought to be on the way, of which Syria will keep 36.

The purported Israeli air force flights over the Pantsyr-S1E site established that the new Russian missiles, activated for the first time in the Middle East, are effective and dangerous but can be disarmed. Western military sources attribute to those Israeli or other air force planes superior electronics for jamming the Russian missile systems, but stress nonetheless that they were extremely lucky to get away unharmed, or at worst, with damage minor enough for a safe return to base.

The courage, daring and operational skills of the air crews must have been exceptional. They would have needed to spend enough time in hostile Syrian air space to execute several passes at varying altitudes under fire in order to test the Pantsyr-S1E responses. Their success demonstrated to Damascus and Tehran that their expensive new Russian anti-air system leaves them vulnerable.

Washington like Jerusalem withheld comment in the immediate aftermath of the episode. After its original disclosure, Damascus too is holding silent. Western intelligence sources believe the Syrians in consultation with the Russians and Tehran are weighing action to gain further media mileage from the incident. They may decide to exhibit some of the �??ammunition�?? dropped by the Israeli aircraft as proof of Israel�??s contempt for international law. A military response may come next.

Pantsir-S1 or Panzir (�??Shell" in English) is a short-range, mobile air defense system, combining two 30mm anti-aircraft guns and 12 surface-to-air missiles which can fire on the move. It can simultaneously engage two separate targets at 12 targets per minute, ranging from fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters, ballistic and cruise missiles, precision-guided munitions and unmanned air vehicles. It can also engage light-armored ground targets.

The Pantsyr S1 short-range air defense system is designed to provide point defense of key military and industrial facilities and air defense support for military units during air and ground operations.

The integrated missile and gun armament creates an uninterrupted engagement zone of 18 to 20 km in range and of up to 10 km in altitude. Immunity to jamming is promised via a common multimode and multi-spectral radar and optical control system. The combined missile and artillery capability makes the Russian system the most advanced air defense system in the world. Syria and Iran believe it provides the best possible protection against American or Israeli air and missile attack. Stationed in al Hamma, at the meeting point of the Syrian-Jordanian and Israeli borders, the missile�??s detection range of 30 km takes in all of Israel�??s northern air force bases.

28

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
I note you reference one of the Wars, the Six Day War - in which Israel launched a pre-emptive strike on Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian forces, respectively, that were being built up on Israel’s border, which Israel considered causus belli, with good reason: Six-Day War - Wikipedia [/quote]

By your logic, Iran would be justified in pre-emptively attacking the US.

There is no such thing as a pre-emptive war. There are only wars of aggression.

29

I think that nothing is being said about this because The Euro’s and the US, and most every country capable of rational thought knows that Iran needs to have its nukes destroyed.

Israel is the junkyard dog everyone likes to keep in a cage, and poke with sticks. But when they need the Israelis to do their bidding - The West lets it out of the cage.

Everyone has either seen, or read about how vicious Israel is if left un-muzzled. It scares the living shit out of Syria, Egypt, and all of the other players in the region.

Israel will destroy Iran’s nukes, and the world will feign outrage as they shuffle the Jews back to their cage.