[quote]ultimatethor wrote:
This case is yet another example of a decision that a cop had to make in 1/10th of a second that will be over-analyzed for 10 months by people who have never been in that situation.
[/quote]
over-analyzed ?
tell you what, i’ll say for arguement that this was a good shoot, and the marshall is satisfied in his own mind that he did what he had to do. given that, i’ll still bet that since the guy was only guilty of being retarded the marshall wishes he didn’t kill him, 'cause the bottom line is a guy who didn’t have to die got killed.
you think the dead guy’s family is sitting around saying" oh geez they did what they had to…" ? goddamn right they’re not. they’re gonna be in the shitter over this for years to come.
god forbid what you call “over-analyses” turns up something that could prove helpful in future situations you know ?
[quote]swivel wrote:
ultimatethor wrote:
This case is yet another example of a decision that a cop had to make in 1/10th of a second that will be over-analyzed for 10 months by people who have never been in that situation.
over-analyzed ?
tell you what, i’ll say for arguement that this was a good shoot, and the marshall is satisfied in his own mind that he did what he had to do. given that, i’ll still bet that since the guy was only guilty of being retarded the marshall wishes he didn’t kill him, 'cause the bottom line is a guy who didn’t have to die got killed.
you think the dead guy’s family is sitting around saying" oh geez they did what they had to…" ? goddamn right they’re not. they’re gonna be in the shitter over this for years to come.
god forbid what you call “over-analyses” turns up something that could prove helpful in future situations you know ?
[/quote]
Look, I don’t know what you expect to learn from this. That the guy was mentally handicapped? How could the cop know? That he didn’t really have a weapon? The cop does not have x-ray vision. The simple fact is this: a cop holding a gun issued commands that were not followed. Instead a threatening gesture was made that the cop had nanoseconds to respond to. Does a cop have to get shot at before he can fire his weapon? Cops are not psychic and are not Superman. I’m not sure what you expected the cop to do, but the fact is he only had a fraction of a second to make a choice. It is unfortunate that the man was killed, and I’m sure the cop regrets that he had to kill him. He’s going to be “in the goddamn shitter over this for years to come” as you say as well. You say that the guy was only guilty of being retarded. I say, how the hell was the cop supposed to know? This incident is a tragedy for everyone involved.
[quote]ultimatethor wrote:
swivel wrote:
ultimatethor wrote:
This case is yet another example of a decision that a cop had to make in 1/10th of a second that will be over-analyzed for 10 months by people who have never been in that situation.
over-analyzed ?
tell you what, i’ll say for arguement that this was a good shoot, and the marshall is satisfied in his own mind that he did what he had to do. given that, i’ll still bet that since the guy was only guilty of being retarded the marshall wishes he didn’t kill him, 'cause the bottom line is a guy who didn’t have to die got killed.
you think the dead guy’s family is sitting around saying" oh geez they did what they had to…" ? goddamn right they’re not. they’re gonna be in the shitter over this for years to come.
god forbid what you call “over-analyses” turns up something that could prove helpful in future situations you know ?
Look, I don’t know what you expect to learn from this. That the guy was mentally handicapped? How could the cop know? That he didn’t really have a weapon? The cop does not have x-ray vision. The simple fact is this: a cop holding a gun issued commands that were not followed. Instead a threatening gesture was made that the cop had nanoseconds to respond to. Does a cop have to get shot at before he can fire his weapon? Cops are not psychic and are not Superman. I’m not sure what you expected the cop to do, but the fact is he only had a fraction of a second to make a choice. It is unfortunate that the man was killed, and I’m sure the cop regrets that he had to kill him. He’s going to be “in the goddamn shitter over this for years to come” as you say as well. You say that the guy was only guilty of being retarded. I say, how the hell was the cop supposed to know? This incident is a tragedy for everyone involved.[/quote]
You may not be aware of this, but there is some debate on whether he even made a threatening gesture or statement. That has become the topic of this discussion.
If the only people who know the truth are the cops and the victim, should we just take the cop’s word and forget about it?
By the way, if a cop has his gun drawn on you and he says lie down, you think he has the right to shoot for no other reason than you not listening to him?
Look, I don’t know what you expect to learn from this. That the guy was mentally handicapped? How could the cop know? That he didn’t really have a weapon? The cop does not have x-ray vision. The simple fact is this: a cop holding a gun issued commands that were not followed. Instead a threatening gesture was made that the cop had nanoseconds to respond to. Does a cop have to get shot at before he can fire his weapon? Cops are not psychic and are not Superman. I’m not sure what you expected the cop to do, but the fact is he only had a fraction of a second to make a choice. It is unfortunate that the man was killed, and I’m sure the cop regrets that he had to kill him. He’s going to be “in the goddamn shitter over this for years to come” as you say as well. You say that the guy was only guilty of being retarded. I say, how the hell was the cop supposed to know? This incident is a tragedy for everyone involved.[/quote]
basically i agree w/ everything except your attitude. i won’t simply throw my hands up and say "how was the cop supposed to know? ". sounds about as good to me as saying “nobody could’ve foreseen airplanes being used as weapons”. oh well, call it a draw, tragedy for everyone. how can you just quit right there and say “i don’t know what you expect to learn…”?
what you expect to learn is the answer to the question : what was the level of threat and was the response appropriate ? what if we learn the cop was a little itchy, or wasn’t following protocol, or was re-ordering Spike from T-Nation when the guy blew buy him and that’s what caught him off-guard. who knows. the questions should be answered. and they will be. and it will be done by people who’ve been there btw.
personally i’d like to learn why, in tbis age when america is safer than ever, an air marshall would even think it’s possible for a guy to be able to board a plane w/a bomb on his person.
[quote]AZMojo wrote:
By the way, if a cop has his gun drawn on you and he says lie down, you think he has the right to shoot for no other reason than you not listening to him?[/quote]
You misunderstand me. What I’m saying is that if a cop has a gun pointed at you and you do not follow his commands BUT INSTEAD make a threatening gesture like reaching into a bag, you should expect to get shot. Of course noncompliance alone is not enough to warrant lethal force. If I was unclear then I’m sorry.
I just feel bad for the cop because their job is hard enough. I don’t think anyone would envy being in that position and having only a split second to make a decision that will affect so many people.
[quote]ultimatethor wrote:
I don’t think anyone would envy being in that position and having only a split second to make a decision that will affect so many people. [/quote]
firstly, take YOUR medicine, esp when getting on a plane and knowing that this can be a stressfuol time, he should have thought of the others on the plane nad TAKEN HIS FKN medication!!! he isnt on medication for the sake of it…
secondly, dont RUN UP and DOWN a plane screaming…that is just asking to get shot…the air marshall did his job in protecting the 100+ ppl on the plane by eliminating a threat in a way they were trained…
yes, it is unfortunate, but it could have been avoided if he TOOK HIS MEDICATION!!!
and yes, there should be an investigation, and id hope that the air marshall is found to have acted in the way that he is trained to…
[quote]swivel wrote:
JimmyOZ wrote:
yes, it is unfortunate, but it could have been avoided if he TOOK HIS MEDICATION!!!
wow ! think of all the kills prevented today alone by people taking their meds !
[/quote]
haha, but think about it, prevention is better than cure, in this case, death. He knew he was going onto a plane, planes are stressul for some pple, obviously for this guy it was, so to make sure he is safe, take his medication, if his wife is using this as an excuse, then maybe this could have been avoided. im sorry the guy was shot and killed, but ppl have to take responsibility for their own actions and health.
but i agree, you have to feel for the air marshall who did his job.
but i agree, you have to feel for the air marshall who did his job.[/quote]
seems like we’re right here eh? :
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Jessep: You want answers?
Kaffee: I think I’m entitled to them.
Jessep: You want answers?
Kaffee: I want the truth!
Jessep: You can’t handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who’s gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago’s death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives…You don’t want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.
We use words like honor, code, loyalty…we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I’d rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you’re entitled to!
Kaffee: Did you order the code red?
Jessep: (quietly) I did the job you sent me to do.
Kaffee: Did you order the code red?
Jessep: You’re goddamn right I did!!
[quote]subhuman wrote:
You don’t want to fuck with the air marshalls their not trained to wing A possible terrorist their trained to put those dumb bastards down. [/quote]
For those asking why there’s a chance a bomb could get through our security, I had a sister who found she’d boarded the plane with three box cutter razors from the grocery store she was working at in the bottom of her purse. She went through TWO checkpoints and they didn’t detect a thing.
[quote]Aeon Infinitus wrote:
For those asking why there’s a chance a bomb could get through our security, I had a sister who found she’d boarded the plane with three box cutter razors from the grocery store she was working at in the bottom of her purse. She went through TWO checkpoints and they didn’t detect a thing.[/quote]
How the fuck do you “find” that you’ve boarded an airplane with 3 box cutter razors? Since when does razor=BOMB? So, she didn’t have the whole box cutter, just the razor? She bought these razors or she was just keeping them for safe keeping just in case the grocery store needed some emergency cutting and she happened to have her purse with her? I’m confused. Would you mind putting your sister on because I have some questions.