Well, that level of internal rotation is really “bad” if you’re doing a lot of big, heavy lifts that require More internal rotation than that.
Anyway, a basic stretch for tightness in the back of your shoulder is the crossbody stretch, like this.
This picture shows the meat that is short and tight that you’re trying to stretch.
Then this video shows how you have to hold your shoulder blade in place to stretch the back of your shoulder VS putting the stretch into your traps or rhomboids.
To strengthen internal rotation, basic BS like this works OK. If you can support the elbow, and focus the motion in the shoulder, that is really good to do.
As you improve you can start lifting the arm away from your body and do the internal rotations. Some out to the side, upper arm at about 45 degrees to the floor.
Progressing to upper arm parallel to floor.
Some with your arm infront of your body are good too.
You can also start with your elbow lower than this lady. Even seated with your elbow on your knee. But I cant find a pic of that.
Internal rotation is pretty important for the olympic lifts. Somewhere there will be a video of more focused, targeted, lifting specific info. With olympic lifters showing showing drills and stuff to work on internal shoulder rotation for the clean and snatch. And internal rotation when locking out weights overhead.
We just need to find a good video. Hopefully just typing that out will be enough to make my algorithms find one for us.
Much appreciated flats.
When i get to a keyboard, i have new observations today about my lack of mobility during o-lifts.
Edit from an actual keyboard to clarify:
@FlatsFarmer
When dropping into the bottom of the snatch, you kinda want your arms to lock out overhead and also a little bit behind you. The further forward your torso leans, the further back your arms have to go to keep the weight balanced.
This morning it became painfully obvious that my arms just don’t want to go behind me when they’re over my head.
In every snatch, I’m catching in the power position instead of at the bottom, then slowly trying to force the bar back further so I can lower my torso down to the bottom. It just doesn’t want to go haha so this is slow and grindy.
After the snatches I tried two things to help with this:
IDK if you can visualize what I’m talking about. I also imagine that’s unrelated to the lack of internal rotation mobility specifically, and moreso just another indicator of overall poor mobility.
8/30/2024 Friday
TGIF. If I get the chance I’ll update on some personal items which are very positive. TLDR I’m in a good headspace.
BSS. 5 sets maybe? Highest was 85lb.
Clean and Jerk:
This went much better than last time. No pain really.
Worked up very slowly, did a good handful of reps at 135, then a couple at 145. They were way better than the sloppy 155 I did on Monday. So a good 155 is coming but I’m not in a hurry.
Snatch.
Warmup at 65lb, then:
EMOM: 2 snatches at 95lbs, 10 rounds.
This was pretty tough honestly. I didn’t have chalk so I was slipping, I hurt my right ring finger pretty bad so I was just clawing onto the bar with half a hand. See mobility notes above - each rep is really a power snatch followed by an overhead squat.
After that, PT for my shoulders as per the above post.
10 minutes brisk walk on high incline.
Sorry if I’ve missed this, but is there a specific reason/need to do Olympic lifts? I get that you’ll want to work on mobility in general anyway, but wondering what’s the purpose of O lifts in your training?
As Bender once said, “Why does anyone do anything?”
I just gravitated back to them after the Spartan race.
It’s something to do, they’re FUN, and:
They’re explosive. WHich I guess has benefits.
They involve a squat.
They involve overhead strength.
They involve a pull.
They involve a hinge.
If you get fat and slow, you can’t do them.
Also, training the powerlifts is innately discouraging to me. You’ve seen my journey on that road, took years and years to get up to entry-level weights and I had to eat insanely - and can’t sustain that kind of eating anyway now.
Bodybuilding is cool, and can be fun and rewarding, but at this moment I find o-lifting more fun than focusing on BB. And I can still find time for a little pump work at the end of some sessions.
Clean and jerking my bodyweight and doing a pullup with half my bodyweight around my waist sounds to me like a pretty fit place to be.
There’s a famous strength test in climbing that uses weighted pull ups as one of 4 metrics. Adding 50% bodyweight to a pull up would make you an intermediate climber without even having to do any of the other tests.
1 that face down, straight arm front raise motion is sometimes called a Y Raise, or a Low Trap Raise. You’re right, it’s a nice move to get that mid back squeezing right. And those low trap muscles pull your shoulder blades together and back for that good overhead position.
I found this picture of those muscles working.
And in this picture some guy has the barbell overhead, and he’s turning his elbows to point almost behind him, to get his shoulders and arms aligned and strong, right under the barbell.
Think about that when you do your loaded barbell overhead stretch. You don’t want to fully internally rotate your shoulders with the bar over your head. But if you can use your internal rotators just enough you should be able to get into a better position.
If it works, it should feel “good.” Instead of the burning sensation of twisted joints you want your shoulders and elbows to feel lined up and strong. And any stretching or burning should be in the belly of the muscles, not the joint.
This one shows the same rotation of the elbows in the hang position. Again, you probably don’t want to maximally turn your arms “in” when you snatch. But if your internal rotators are weak you may need to actively think about it and engage them to get your arms straight before each rep.
And this one shows how you need good mobility and internal shoulder rotation to keep the bar close as you pull the bar overhead.
Anyway, enough mobility and properly working shoulders are pretty important to the olympic lifts. And if you can improve those, you should be able to whip the bar up higher, faster and easier, and catch it better.
Sunday 9/1
Nice walk with the family, including a nice uphill toddler carry. Down at the park, the whole family took turns doing a sprint for time, I did it barefoot a couple times and got it down to 55 seconds. Might be worth using that as a benchmark and see how i can shave it down in future.
Monday 9/2
BSS
Snatches
Clean and Jerks
Strict Press
Prehab/rehab
Including loaded stretching and about a million BTN with a light bar, going lower than shoulder height and pushing back.
@FlatsFarmer it was amazing to realize that internal rotation actually helped keep the bar further back at lockout. I would never have made the connection.
I have a long way to go with shoulder mobility!
Edit to add for Monday 9/2:
It’s a holiday, so to the beach with the family as per usual. Wasn’t up for surfing today - waves were weak and after last week’s weird shoulder thing, I didn’t want to.
Instead I swam out pretty far with some of the kids, they enjoyed it, then stood in the surf break with them, chest-deep, and took turns throwing them into waves. Trying to actually get each kid overhead and then throw forward, a little clean-and-jerk drill snuck in there haha.
Then in the evening, around a mile walk pushing the stroller. I’m going to try to incorporate these back into the routine - used to be a staple.
Slow and steady! Every good rep strengthens the “right” muscles and takes tension off the “wrong” muscles to improve your ROM one sliver at a time.
9/3 Tuesday Training plan update:
Way, way back - maybe in my previous log or maybe before - I went on a spree of doing exclusively front squats and strict press.
It occurs to me that those are fundamental components of the O-lifts, especially the front squat.
Also, I’ve realized how much mobility and technique are critical in the O-lifts - you don’t just do linear progression to add weight, you actually have to get good at the skill; and training poorly reinforces poor techniques.
So I’m thinking I set up a schedule of some sort with:
-front squat strength in the low rep ranges being part of the goal;
-Overhead strength and stability being part of the goal;
-Mobility - specifically, from the bottom up, dorsiflexion, hip flexion, shoulder/Tspine, and wrist/elbow being part of the goal; maybe each session has a dedicated few minutes to one of those parts.
-Skill at the O-lifts or at portions of the O-lifts would be part of it.
So for example, I could work on heavy FS triples; but I’d also want to make sure I’m not leaning too far forward and that my front rack is high and tight. So don’t just stack on weight - progress slowly and improve the SKILL of front squatting with good O technique.
I could do strict presses, BTN presses, push presses, jerks, etc - with the same focus.
Take a few minutes each session to work a mobility area.
Not neglect my glutes, which chronically suck and aren’t neurologically tied to anything.
Not neglect pullups, because they are the only thing that makes me cool.
Maybe even add the occasional deadlift.
Haven’t worked it out yet. But tomorrow I could certainly start front squatting, pressing, and stretching.
9/4/2024 Wednesday
Big focus on mobility and technique.
Also some actual lifting.
-BSS, couple sets.
-Front squats: Deep, slow, and a real focus on a full grip and high elbows (elbows were not actually high but I was trying): Many Sets of 3. Worked up to a top set of 155 and did 3 sets at 135.
Strict press:
Triples, with a focus on starting in a really tight rack position with very high elbows. A painful way to start a press. Top set was probably 105lbs, most of the work was lower.
BTN press 45lbs 3x8
Stretching and misery:
Bar hangs x lots
Y raises
Tried to do forward-leaning BTN but was too weak
Tons and tons of loaded stretches: sitting at the bottom of a squat, trying to bend my wrists back and elbows up, etc. All the stuff you need to catch O-lifts.
Snatches: After everything else, I did a few snatches up to 85lbs. Felt like I was able to catch lower after all the drills. I think the drills and stretches will make a difference, and I think it’s important I not rush to adding weight to the actual lifts when my technique and mobility is not very good.
9/6/2024 Friday
Absolutely fabulous session this morning. Whatever it was, I got to the office afterward feeling on top of the world. Must have released some good endorphins.
Warmed up with a long deep squat focusing on ankle mobility, and a bar hang. Not much.
Snatches: Did triples, all the way up from 65lb to 135lb, with 135lb being a PR post-move. (I was at or above that in Texas but that doesn’t count). The snatches felt really good, and I took a video at 105 or 115. It will show that my technique is still not where it needs to be but that’s OK.
Did plenty of backoff work around 105 or 115, can’t remember which, but at least 3 triples.
Clean and Jerk:
All the way up to 155lb again. Which was much better this time than last time.
I got one on video, probably 135 but again wasn’t really tracking, point isn’t to capture a PR but to watch my technique and find areas for improvement. Again, these felt just great.
Did plenty of backoff reps at 135.
SGDL, 135lb, 3x3
Clean Hook Grip Deadlift, 205lb, 3x3.
Busted my right ring finger again during these, it was miserably painful and still is. I’ll explain later.
Not much after that - long set of biceps curls, triceps extensions, an un-named shoulder thing, light BTN. Set of pullups too.
My right ring finger - This started happening back when I was doing a lot of power cleans around the beginning of the year. My right ring finger, the segment closest to my palm, seems to pop a blood vessel against the barbell sometimes. When this happens it swells up and hurts really bad, and makes it very very hard to grip a bar. I use a talon grip with the first two fingers and thumb only, because the ring finger becomes useless.
It only happened back in the day with lots of cleans, and now with similar movements it’s happening again every session. No idea how to cure this. It’s swollen like a sausage right now but 48 hours will put it back to normal.
I ordered a couple books on o-lifting: One is geared particularly for older lifters, the other is supposed to be a comprehensive manual for training and coaching the o-lifts. Without an actual person to guide me I need all the help I can get.
Anyway for reasons unknown, I feel on top of the freaking world. And I assume it’s the endorphins from a lot of heavy reps from the floor to the ceiling, and the sense that I’m improving.
Think about using straps on the OLY lifts? Could help with the finger.
Your Ulnar Nerve runs down your arm, behind your elbow, along your forearm and into your ring finger. If your elbows are really bent it can squeeze the nerve between the bones. And then when the nerve is trapped and you bend your wrist and fingers way, way back it stretches the hell out of the nerve.
This could cause all kinds of pain, tingling, weakness and swelling.
If you’re making an effort to exaggerate your front rack and catch position, with your elbows way up, your wrists folded over and the bar way down your fingers you might be causing yourself this issue.
This is worth a try.
Didn’t know that!
I’m definitely trying to get a good front rack - I’m not there, but trying like hell to get my elbows way up. It SEEMS LIKE the pain is from gripping the bar during the clean, and that it’s a blood vesssel that I keep popping, but this may be to good to be coincidental.
The finger swells up like a sausage (I have thin bony fingers, but this one gets WAY thicker and inflated when this occurs). And I can see purple in the affected area. So that makes me think it’s just a bruising issue, but maybe messing with the ulnar nerve is what sets it off…
Anyway if I didn’t mention it already, I have a 2-week vacation coming up during which there will be zero gym access (taking all 4 kids halfway across the world, as per usual but farther this time) so that maybe will give it a chance to heal and reset.
Two more sessions until then, maybe I’ll use straps.
Snatch and c&j form checks.
@LoRez i wonder if your physics eval software can give any insights into these as i improve? Seems like a cool thing to track.
I am aware that i catch both lifts too high, losing efficiency.
Looks like at the bottom of the snatch my torso is too far forward putting my shoulders into a dangerous zone.
Ankle and hip mobility to move hips further forward for a more upright torso is probably the issue there.
I gotta say, I personally love the dichotomy between my response and what @FlatsFarmer had to say haha.
