[quote]bigflamer wrote:
As an atheist, I’m a proud member of the reality based community.
[/quote]
What’s real about it? What can you actually prove really exists? Seriously, I am dying to know…
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
I truly miss Hitchens. The world is poorer in intellect after his passing for sure. Thankfully he was a damn fine writer, and he lives on in his writings and videos such as these.
Enjoy.
pat wrote:
Oh goody…Again? If folks aren’t willing to speak for themselves, at least post something new.
Geez…[/quote]
And yet you would continually reference all the authors in the bible.
Ironic it is.[/quote]
You don’t know me…I don’t don’t discuss bible with atheists. Ironically, it’s atheists who want to discuss the bible with theists, even though they’ve never read it which I find odd. Sadly, to many people fall for the trap. I don’t need the bible to prove God exists. The bible is for those who believe, not for those who don’t.
I just find it weird, if I were to critique a work of your hero Christopher Hitchens without reading it, you would berate me with out end, and I would deserve it.
But, a lot of you atheists feel compelled to criticize the bible without reading it or knowing anything about it. Yet you feel somehow justified. I call bullshit. If you don’t know it, don’t pretend you do. Stick to what you know.
God doesn’t need the bible to exist, just like I don’t need it to prove he does.
I know your out there Kamui, go on and tell him…
You want to prove to me God doesn’t exist, I am waiting…Prove it…
[/quote]
No one can prove that God doesn’t exist. Because you don’t prove a negative.
But…
there is a reason why atheists keep speaking and asking question about the bible.
Most atheists (the rare “i have a quasi-religious faith that God doesn’t exist” breed excepted) begin their intellectual journey with the same starting point than agnostics :
Their position is akin to “Oh, theoretically and strictly speaking, he may exist, but i won’t believe in him until his existence is proven”.
Agnostics remains here.
Atheists go further along the way.
They add another line : “Even if God exist, i’m pretty SURE he is not the obviously man-made god depicted in the religious book, because, well, these inconsistent books sucks”.
And they come here to try to show you how and why these books sucks.
Granted, most of us doesn’t have enough knowledge to properly criticize the Bible.
Doing it require that one :
-know very well the book themselves, and the history of their transmission.
-know the various hermeneutics and apologetics developped by the various branch of judaism and christianity.
-know very well the pre-biblical mythologies of the Fertile Crescent as well as the pagan traditions of Europe.
Few does qualify. And those who do usually don’t bother.
Which doesn’t mean it can’t be done.
[quote]kamui wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
I truly miss Hitchens. The world is poorer in intellect after his passing for sure. Thankfully he was a damn fine writer, and he lives on in his writings and videos such as these.
Enjoy.
pat wrote:
Oh goody…Again? If folks aren’t willing to speak for themselves, at least post something new.
Geez…[/quote]
And yet you would continually reference all the authors in the bible.
Ironic it is.[/quote]
You don’t know me…I don’t don’t discuss bible with atheists. Ironically, it’s atheists who want to discuss the bible with theists, even though they’ve never read it which I find odd. Sadly, to many people fall for the trap. I don’t need the bible to prove God exists. The bible is for those who believe, not for those who don’t.
I just find it weird, if I were to critique a work of your hero Christopher Hitchens without reading it, you would berate me with out end, and I would deserve it.
But, a lot of you atheists feel compelled to criticize the bible without reading it or knowing anything about it. Yet you feel somehow justified. I call bullshit. If you don’t know it, don’t pretend you do. Stick to what you know.
God doesn’t need the bible to exist, just like I don’t need it to prove he does.
I know your out there Kamui, go on and tell him…
You want to prove to me God doesn’t exist, I am waiting…Prove it…
[/quote]
No one can prove that God doesn’t exist. Because you don’t prove a negative.
[/quote]
I disagree. Math does it all the time. So long as a proposition is made, it can be disputed. The claim that God exists has been made in many, many forms.
I agree that the burden of proof is on the theist, but the theist has provided in spades. While many arguments have been refuted, a precious few, but mighty have survived.
The validity of a sacred book is a secondary issue to the existence of the thing they are claiming to have knowledge of.
The very bottom line here is that if God doesn’t exist, then all the ‘Holy Books’ are completely full of shit and with out a shred of value.
One fact is, is that every holy book can be full of shit and God still exist. Just because he exist’s doesn’t mean we know anything but the fact that he exists.
Another fact is, that one of these books may have some information about God.
And yet another is that all the “Holy Books”, and many other things have some information about God.
What I am trying to say this, if God does not exist no book matters. And if you completly manager to tear a holy book limb from limb, it still doesn’t mean that God doesn’t exist.
[quote]
And if you completly manager to tear a holy book limb from limb, it still doesn’t mean that God doesn’t exist.[/quote]
Indeed, but it would definitely mean that religions and religious practices are bullshit, which is the main point for many atheists.
Hence Mikhail Bakunin famous quote : “A Boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth. Therefore if God did exist, he would have to be abolished”.
[quote]kamui wrote:
[quote]
And if you completly manager to tear a holy book limb from limb, it still doesn’t mean that God doesn’t exist.[/quote]
Indeed, but it would definitely mean that religions and religious practices are bullshit, which is the main point for many atheists. >>>>>>>>>[/quote]You are absolutely correct. Most pagans don’t REALLY mind if there’s a god or not. As long as THEY get to define HIM and He doesn’t get to tell them what to do. The exact biblical picture of sin which has no meaning if the bible is not the Word of God.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
You mean other than the enthusiastic sacrifice of his own son?[/quote]
Oh brother…[/quote]
I know, right?
It’s such an obvious example of child sacrifice that it gets overlooked. But there it is…
[/quote]
Gee, I didn’t know a 33 year old could be counted as a child.
Even in the most liberal of societies 33 is still counted as an adult.[/quote]
When my children reach the age of 33, they will still be my children.
Did god not sacrifice his only son?
[/quote]
Jesus was murdered but the Romans and the Pharisees. There’s no God remember?[/quote]
Indeed, there is no god. My references are from the perspective of christian mythology. Jesus was executed by the Romans, just like Apollonius of Tyana at the same time in history, for the same crimes. Have you ever read about Apollonius? The similarities are interesting.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Perhaps I SHOULD be seeking the counsel of a christian, as to what age is the cut off between child sacrifice and regular sacrifice. Help me out here, Pat…where’s the cut off. lol
[/quote]
Beats me, Child sacrifice is condemned in the bible…But you don’t know that do you? lol.[/quote]
I am aware of the fact that in some parts it’s condemned, other parts it’s commanded by your god and approved. The bible is inconsistent like that.
So, when’s the cut off?
[quote]kamui wrote:
Well if God doesn’t exist, by default they are all bullshit.
But that really reduces it to a strawman for atheists to slay. You want to get rid of religion, you have to get rid of God. Unless you can do that, religion will be around as long as humans live.
There’s lot’s of excuses for bosses on earth. Even if you succeeded in killing off God, you’re still going to have a master.
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
You mean other than the enthusiastic sacrifice of his own son?[/quote]
Oh brother…[/quote]
I know, right?
It’s such an obvious example of child sacrifice that it gets overlooked. But there it is…
[/quote]
Gee, I didn’t know a 33 year old could be counted as a child.
Even in the most liberal of societies 33 is still counted as an adult.[/quote]
When my children reach the age of 33, they will still be my children.
Did god not sacrifice his only son?
[/quote]
Jesus was murdered but the Romans and the Pharisees. There’s no God remember?[/quote]
Indeed, there is no god. My references are from the perspective of christian mythology. Jesus was executed by the Romans, just like Apollonius of Tyana at the same time in history, for the same crimes. Have you ever read about Apollonius? The similarities are interesting.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Perhaps I SHOULD be seeking the counsel of a christian, as to what age is the cut off between child sacrifice and regular sacrifice. Help me out here, Pat…where’s the cut off. lol
[/quote]
Beats me, Child sacrifice is condemned in the bible…But you don’t know that do you? lol.[/quote]
I am aware of the fact that in some parts it’s condemned, other parts it’s commanded by your god and approved. The bible is inconsistent like that.
So, when’s the cut off?
[/quote]
Which just means you don’t know shit about the bible. Child sacrifice is condemned through out hte bible, period. There is no place in the bible that approves of it, no where. Children being killed does not equal child sacrifice. Children die all the time at the hands of men and it’s mostly never a a sacrifice, save for some folk who have flown off the deep end.
And if you are as ‘logical’ as you claimed, a logical cut off would be adulthood, would it not? You really needed me to figure that out? But again, no where is it approved of in the bible.
It’s trash like that, that atheists use to feel good about yourselves. I don’t understand the idea of using made up shit to defend your atheism. What’s the matter, doesn’t it stand up to fact?
And why do you keep posting links, can you not defend your own claims? I can understand it from time to time, but what the hell do I care about some ancient guy who was executed? The Romans crucified tons of people. You can post them I guess, but unless there is a real actual point, then I won’t bother with it.
Now, God does exist because existence itself demands it and cosmology proves it. None of the rest of it matters if that isn’t true. But this is real stuff based on real actual logic.
[quote]pat wrote:
Now, God does exist because existence itself demands it and cosmology proves it.
[/quote]
LOL. Must be nice to be able to make up anything to prove a point, yet anything we make up is wrong since it contradicts your made up stuff.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
You mean other than the enthusiastic sacrifice of his own son?[/quote]
Oh brother…[/quote]
I know, right?
It’s such an obvious example of child sacrifice that it gets overlooked. But there it is…
[/quote]
Gee, I didn’t know a 33 year old could be counted as a child.
Even in the most liberal of societies 33 is still counted as an adult.[/quote]
When my children reach the age of 33, they will still be my children.
Did god not sacrifice his only son?
[/quote]
Jesus was murdered but the Romans and the Pharisees. There’s no God remember?[/quote]
Indeed, there is no god. My references are from the perspective of christian mythology. Jesus was executed by the Romans, just like Apollonius of Tyana at the same time in history, for the same crimes. Have you ever read about Apollonius? The similarities are interesting.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Perhaps I SHOULD be seeking the counsel of a christian, as to what age is the cut off between child sacrifice and regular sacrifice. Help me out here, Pat…where’s the cut off. lol
[/quote]
Beats me, Child sacrifice is condemned in the bible…But you don’t know that do you? lol.[/quote]
I am aware of the fact that in some parts it’s condemned, other parts it’s commanded by your god and approved. The bible is inconsistent like that.
So, when’s the cut off?
[/quote]
Which just means you don’t know shit about the bible. Child sacrifice is condemned through out hte bible, period. There is no place in the bible that approves of it, no where. Children being killed does not equal child sacrifice. Children die all the time at the hands of men and it’s mostly never a a sacrifice, save for some folk who have flown off the deep end.
And if you are as ‘logical’ as you claimed, a logical cut off would be adulthood, would it not? You really needed me to figure that out? But again, no where is it approved of in the bible.
It’s trash like that, that atheists use to feel good about yourselves. I don’t understand the idea of using made up shit to defend your atheism. What’s the matter, doesn’t it stand up to fact?
Now, go does exist because existence itself demands it and cosmology proves it. None of the rest of it matters if that isn’t true. But this is real stuff based on real actual logic.
[/quote]
FACT: your god ordered Abraham to put his child to knife and burn him in sacrifice, and he approved of Jephthah murdering his own daughter in sacrifice. These are in addition to his commanding his own son to be tortured and killed in sacrifice.
And we haven’t even begun the discussion on his wanton murder of almost an entire civilization, including but not limited to women, children, the elderly, the sick, etc. All for what? Because he apparently wasn’t happy with his first draft? I mean, he IS supposedly the creator of all things, right? The all knowing and all seeing, right? So he doesn’t like his own work, and just kills them all off like so many fleas?
Damn, good luck with your “loving god”.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Now, God does exist because existence itself demands it and cosmology proves it.
[/quote]
LOL. Must be nice to be able to make up anything to prove a point, yet anything we make up is wrong since it contradicts your made up stuff.[/quote]
Then you should have no problem proving me wrong… So, prove me wrong. This ought to be good…
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
You mean other than the enthusiastic sacrifice of his own son?[/quote]
Oh brother…[/quote]
I know, right?
It’s such an obvious example of child sacrifice that it gets overlooked. But there it is…
[/quote]
Gee, I didn’t know a 33 year old could be counted as a child.
Even in the most liberal of societies 33 is still counted as an adult.[/quote]
When my children reach the age of 33, they will still be my children.
Did god not sacrifice his only son?
[/quote]
Jesus was murdered but the Romans and the Pharisees. There’s no God remember?[/quote]
Indeed, there is no god. My references are from the perspective of christian mythology. Jesus was executed by the Romans, just like Apollonius of Tyana at the same time in history, for the same crimes. Have you ever read about Apollonius? The similarities are interesting.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Perhaps I SHOULD be seeking the counsel of a christian, as to what age is the cut off between child sacrifice and regular sacrifice. Help me out here, Pat…where’s the cut off. lol
[/quote]
Beats me, Child sacrifice is condemned in the bible…But you don’t know that do you? lol.[/quote]
I am aware of the fact that in some parts it’s condemned, other parts it’s commanded by your god and approved. The bible is inconsistent like that.
So, when’s the cut off?
[/quote]
Which just means you don’t know shit about the bible. Child sacrifice is condemned through out hte bible, period. There is no place in the bible that approves of it, no where. Children being killed does not equal child sacrifice. Children die all the time at the hands of men and it’s mostly never a a sacrifice, save for some folk who have flown off the deep end.
And if you are as ‘logical’ as you claimed, a logical cut off would be adulthood, would it not? You really needed me to figure that out? But again, no where is it approved of in the bible.
It’s trash like that, that atheists use to feel good about yourselves. I don’t understand the idea of using made up shit to defend your atheism. What’s the matter, doesn’t it stand up to fact?
Now, go does exist because existence itself demands it and cosmology proves it. None of the rest of it matters if that isn’t true. But this is real stuff based on real actual logic.
[/quote]
FACT: your god ordered Abraham to put his child to knife and burn him in sacrifice, and he approved of Jephthah murdering his own daughter in sacrifice. These are in addition to his commanding his own son to be tortured and killed in sacrifice.
[/quote]
Fact, he stopped him because he wasn’t really demanding that. I don’t really expect you to know the story since you didn’t read it…
Where is you counter argument that God doesn’t exist. Because this is nothing more than a strawman unless you prove the real question on the table, that God exists.
Just because you don’t like what you’ve been told it says, has no bearing on the existence of God. Once we establish existence, then we can discuss his nature. I am not the one with delusional ideas of who God is. And liking or not liking the bible is not relevant if you know don’t know what you are talking about.
T
hen if you really want to discuss scripture, read the bible and then we’ll discuss it.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Now, God does exist because existence itself demands it and cosmology proves it.
[/quote]
LOL. Must be nice to be able to make up anything to prove a point, yet anything we make up is wrong since it contradicts your made up stuff.[/quote]
Then you should have no problem proving me wrong… So, prove me wrong. This ought to be good…
[/quote]
I can’t prove you wrong anymore than you can prove unicorns don’t exist.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Now, God does exist because existence itself demands it and cosmology proves it.
[/quote]
LOL. Must be nice to be able to make up anything to prove a point, yet anything we make up is wrong since it contradicts your made up stuff.[/quote]
Then you should have no problem proving me wrong… So, prove me wrong. This ought to be good…[/quote]
And I’m actually an extremely advanced alien life form from the Alpha Centauri system. I’m here on vacation.
You should have no problem proving me wrong… So, prove me wrong. This ought to be good…
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
You mean other than the enthusiastic sacrifice of his own son?[/quote]
Oh brother…[/quote]
I know, right?
It’s such an obvious example of child sacrifice that it gets overlooked. But there it is…
[/quote]
Gee, I didn’t know a 33 year old could be counted as a child.
Even in the most liberal of societies 33 is still counted as an adult.[/quote]
When my children reach the age of 33, they will still be my children.
Did god not sacrifice his only son?
[/quote]
Jesus was murdered but the Romans and the Pharisees. There’s no God remember?[/quote]
Indeed, there is no god. My references are from the perspective of christian mythology. Jesus was executed by the Romans, just like Apollonius of Tyana at the same time in history, for the same crimes. Have you ever read about Apollonius? The similarities are interesting.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Perhaps I SHOULD be seeking the counsel of a christian, as to what age is the cut off between child sacrifice and regular sacrifice. Help me out here, Pat…where’s the cut off. lol
[/quote]
Beats me, Child sacrifice is condemned in the bible…But you don’t know that do you? lol.[/quote]
I am aware of the fact that in some parts it’s condemned, other parts it’s commanded by your god and approved. The bible is inconsistent like that.
So, when’s the cut off?
[/quote]
Which just means you don’t know shit about the bible. Child sacrifice is condemned through out hte bible, period. There is no place in the bible that approves of it, no where. Children being killed does not equal child sacrifice. Children die all the time at the hands of men and it’s mostly never a a sacrifice, save for some folk who have flown off the deep end.
And if you are as ‘logical’ as you claimed, a logical cut off would be adulthood, would it not? You really needed me to figure that out? But again, no where is it approved of in the bible.
It’s trash like that, that atheists use to feel good about yourselves. I don’t understand the idea of using made up shit to defend your atheism. What’s the matter, doesn’t it stand up to fact?
Now, go does exist because existence itself demands it and cosmology proves it. None of the rest of it matters if that isn’t true. But this is real stuff based on real actual logic.
[/quote]
FACT: your god ordered Abraham to put his child to knife and burn him in sacrifice, and he approved of Jephthah murdering his own daughter in sacrifice. These are in addition to his commanding his own son to be tortured and killed in sacrifice. [/quote]
Fact, he stopped him because he wasn’t really demanding that. I don’t really expect you to know the story since you didn’t read it…[/quote]
Right, the fact that your god was only putting him to the test and maybe “fooling around a bit”, that makes the story loving.
Still a very, very, very fucked up story. You have to do a whole lot of equivocation to make that anything but fucking evil. Although, I’m sure you’re up to the task.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
And we haven’t even begun the discussion on his wanton murder of almost an entire civilization, including but not limited to women, children, the elderly, the sick, etc. All for what? Because he apparently wasn’t happy with his first draft? I mean, he IS supposedly the creator of all things, right? The all knowing and all seeing, right? So he doesn’t like his own work, and just kills them all off like so many fleas?
Damn, good luck with your “loving god”.[/quote]
Where is you counter argument that God doesn’t exist. Because this is nothing more than a straw man unless you prove the real question on the table, that God exists.
Just because you don’t like what you’ve been told it says, has no bearing on the existence of God. Once we establish existence, then we can discuss his nature. I am not the one with delusional ideas of who God is. And liking or not liking the bible is not relevant if you know don’t know what you are talking about.
Then if you really want to discuss scripture, read the bible and then we’ll discuss it.[/quote]
FACT: There’s more scientific evidence for the existence of Bigfoot, then there is for any of the gods, that includes yours.
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
You mean other than the enthusiastic sacrifice of his own son?[/quote]
Oh brother…[/quote]
I know, right?
It’s such an obvious example of child sacrifice that it gets overlooked. But there it is…
[/quote]
Gee, I didn’t know a 33 year old could be counted as a child.
Even in the most liberal of societies 33 is still counted as an adult.[/quote]
When my children reach the age of 33, they will still be my children.
Did god not sacrifice his only son?
[/quote]
Jesus was murdered but the Romans and the Pharisees. There’s no God remember?[/quote]
Indeed, there is no god. My references are from the perspective of christian mythology. Jesus was executed by the Romans, just like Apollonius of Tyana at the same time in history, for the same crimes. Have you ever read about Apollonius? The similarities are interesting.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Perhaps I SHOULD be seeking the counsel of a christian, as to what age is the cut off between child sacrifice and regular sacrifice. Help me out here, Pat…where’s the cut off. lol
[/quote]
Beats me, Child sacrifice is condemned in the bible…But you don’t know that do you? lol.[/quote]
I am aware of the fact that in some parts it’s condemned, other parts it’s commanded by your god and approved. The bible is inconsistent like that.
So, when’s the cut off?
[/quote]
Which just means you don’t know shit about the bible. Child sacrifice is condemned through out hte bible, period. There is no place in the bible that approves of it, no where. Children being killed does not equal child sacrifice. Children die all the time at the hands of men and it’s mostly never a a sacrifice, save for some folk who have flown off the deep end.
And if you are as ‘logical’ as you claimed, a logical cut off would be adulthood, would it not? You really needed me to figure that out? But again, no where is it approved of in the bible.
It’s trash like that, that atheists use to feel good about yourselves. I don’t understand the idea of using made up shit to defend your atheism. What’s the matter, doesn’t it stand up to fact?
Now, go does exist because existence itself demands it and cosmology proves it. None of the rest of it matters if that isn’t true. But this is real stuff based on real actual logic.
[/quote]
FACT: your god ordered Abraham to put his child to knife and burn him in sacrifice, and he approved of Jephthah murdering his own daughter in sacrifice. These are in addition to his commanding his own son to be tortured and killed in sacrifice.
And we haven’t even begun the discussion on his wanton murder of almost an entire civilization, including but not limited to women, children, the elderly, the sick, etc. All for what? Because he apparently wasn’t happy with his first draft? I mean, he IS supposedly the creator of all things, right? The all knowing and all seeing, right? So he doesn’t like his own work, and just kills them all off like so many fleas?
Damn, good luck with your “loving god”.
[/quote]
I’ve already responded to your Jephthat quote did you miss it?
Here’s another really good video debunking William Lane Craig
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Now, God does exist because existence itself demands it and cosmology proves it.
[/quote]
LOL. Must be nice to be able to make up anything to prove a point, yet anything we make up is wrong since it contradicts your made up stuff.[/quote]
Then you should have no problem proving me wrong… So, prove me wrong. This ought to be good…
[/quote]
I can’t prove you wrong anymore than you can prove unicorns don’t exist.[/quote]
So what are you babbling about? I am not interested in your opinion, I am interested what you can prove. What’s your point? You just here to call names and point fingers when you, yourself don’t know what you believe and why?
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Now, God does exist because existence itself demands it and cosmology proves it.
[/quote]
LOL. Must be nice to be able to make up anything to prove a point, yet anything we make up is wrong since it contradicts your made up stuff.[/quote]
Then you should have no problem proving me wrong… So, prove me wrong. This ought to be good…[/quote]
And I’m actually an extremely advanced alien life form from the Alpha Centauri system. I’m here on vacation.
You should have no problem proving me wrong… So, prove me wrong. This ought to be good…
[/quote]
You can’t even prove you exist, much less what you are. I can make a better argument for God’s existence then you can make for yourself. In that sense, God is even more real than you are.
There’s an argument on the table, I put it out there, I understand burden of proof. If all you can come up with is this alen garbage, are you really sure about your atheism? Sounds like a weak basis to me.
At least most Christian can claim some sort of personal interaction with the almighty, which is more compelling then ‘prove I am not an alien’. Hell, I can’t prove your not a figment of my imagination.
Based on this I can say you have a lot of faith in your atheism…
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Here’s another really good video debunking William Lane Craig
[/quote]
Tell me raj do you ever check out what someone has to say without filtering it through some youtube atheist?
Forget for a moment that you are derailing the topic of this thread. If you want to continue this, start a new thread about cosmology.
Anyways, the creator of this video has terrible grasp of law of logic and comes up with a terrible analogy to somehow prove deductive logic wrong. I peer lead/(teach) fields and waves at a university. Ill just quote myself where I responded to Olena(which I think is where she got that terrible argument as well).
[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
[quote]Oleena wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
If the conclusion is valid and the premises are valid, then the conclusion i necessarily;y true.
[/quote]
cannot know whether your deductive argument’s premises are in fact true unless they fall within the realm of scientifically known information .
[/quote]
Wrong the premises in a deductive argument need not fall within the realm of “scientifically know information” in order for it to be valid and sound although science can certainly play a part in some of the premises of some deductive arguments. Nor could science test the premises in the Argument from Contingency that Pat usually presents because science presupposes them and in fact those premises are necessary for us to even do science in the first place.
Your poorly constructed argument to show that science determines the validity(not soundness) of a deductive argument is a misunderstanding of what a deductive argument and science is.
This is a valid argument.
- A particle of mass M mass’s is a constant independent of any reference frame it is in.
- Force is equal to the product of its mass and acceleration.
- This situation occurs in R ^3 space
- A particle subjected to a constant force greater than zero will experience constant acceleration while the velocity will increase linearly with time.
- The velocity this particle can attain is any member of the set of real numbers m/s including greater than 3x10^8m/s if subjected to a force for a long enough period.
Now suppose there exist a hypothetical universe in which those premises are true, the conclusion is inescapably true. It just so happens that in our universe, from the inductive inferences we get through science give good evidence that the first three premises happen to not be true and thus the argument isn’t sound in this universe thought valid. It seems that the mass of a particle is function of its rest mass and velocity in a given reference frame, that force is equal to the derivative of momentum(where the momentum is the product of mass and velocity) which Newton originally said force is so that there is no contradiction between him and Einstein and that the reason for this is that space may not be R ^3 as we normally perceive it.
The premises of the Argument from Contingency are far more basic than the ones used to conduct science in the first place.
Read where I start on page 6 till page 12 where me and Pat explain and answered any objection to the argument, if you have any objections I will be happy to discuss them with you.
[/quote]
Do you go to a university raj? If you do you can easily read his book for yourself online.