[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Atheists are programed to no such thing. Believers are the ones who are programed from a very young age, just as their parents were, just as heir parents were, just as their parents were. See how that works? [/quote]
No, that’s some deluded bullshit you choose to believe it has no basis in real actual fact. It’s just a hubris on the part of atheists to believe something like that. All kids are a product of their environment to some degree. Being raised a certain way does not mean that all people who don’t think like you are brainwashed robots.[/quote]
If you think that you’re immune to social programming, you’re badly mistaken. Why aren’t you a muslim? A Buddhist? A Hindu?[/quote]
Not anymore than you are… You’re not special because you read some books that told you to be atheist and everybody else it stupid.[/quote]
You’re not special because you read the bible and was told that it was the word of a god that there’s no proof of. No proof…nothing…not even the faulty argument of contingency that magically leads to a christian god who’s magically immune from causation. This my friend, is faith based reasoning.
What if one day physics provides for us evidence illustrating that your first mover was nothing but a natural phenomena? What then of your god?
[quote]Pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Atheists choose not to believe based on the fact that there’s no evidence whatsoever to support any god or creator. I think it’s funny to watch believers really struggle with the concept of not believing. It must be such an alien concept to them, that they simply cannot wrap their heads around the fact that atheist have no belief in any sort of god. One does not need faith in order to not believe.
Further, if you don’t know for a fact, beyond the shadow of a doubt there is no God, you are exhibiting faith. The act of being atheist is still an act of faith even though you claim to believe in nothing.[/quote]
Ignoring or disregarding evidence isn’t the same as ‘no evidence’. Can’t do anything about willful ignorance. Second, Whether you like it or not, most of your life revolves around things you aren’t certain of, which makes you operate on faith.
You don’t know if you be alive tomorrow, you don’t know if all the scientific theories you believe in (which is a kind of faith) will fall apart. You believe history based on hearsay, etc. I can go on and on about all the things you don’t know but believe. It’s not a spiritual faith, but it’s a faith nonetheless.[/quote]
You have no evidence for the existence of any gods, just faulty deductive reasoning.[/quote]
You just don’t understand the argument. Show the fault. Oh I should just take your word for it? I don’t think so. If there is a fault, prove it. Shouldn’t be hard right?[/quote]
Not hard at all. I’ve already laid out the fault, I can’t force to to accept it. Argument from contingency is, ultimately, faith based reasoning, as it always leads to a christian god. Convenient, no?
[quote]Pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
As to your second bit of foolishness, you once again illustrate that you do not understand faith. I believe that I will wake up tomorrow because I’ve been doing it for over 37 years now. It’s a logical belief based on the evidence; I operate on belief, NOT faith. Seriously, is this the best argument you can make?
Many people believing in different forms of the same delusion, does not make it less of a delusion. If it’s marketed well, whatever it is, people WILL buy it. Especially if they’re taught from a very young age that if they don’t buy it, they’ll burn forever in a fiery pit of hell.[/quote]
I didn’t say it did, I said it’s unreasonable to suspect all of the people are either delusional or stupid and that, that is the only catalyst for their faith. If you think that because people are taught Christianity from a young age is the means by which they are programmed just means you don’t really know the very basics of developmental Psychology. People don’t work that way or you would be that way too.
I hope you have more basis for your ideals than anger and vitriol. It seems to me you are an emotional athiest. You’re athiesm is more based on angst than fact. The fact that you claim to have read all these books and you don’t even know the core arguments of the theist seems to support this fact.
Being angry, belittling, and crying bullshit doesn’t prove those core arguments wrong. Hating the bible, a book you never read, doesn’t make God suddenly disappearÃ???Ã??Ã?¢?Ã???Ã??Ã?¦.[/quote]
I WAS that way for quite a while, although looking back I was always the little questioner, a fact that quite annoyed the priests and CCD teachers. Fact is, I wasn’t immune to the social/cultural programing either. I spent many years as a full on believer, and many more trying to remain a believer in the face of illogical reasoning. “Have faith” was the standard answer from the priests whenever they were pressed for answers to my questions.I finally faced reality and put down that baggage; I’m a much happier person for it.
That so many people are religious only points to the cultural social programing that I spoke of. It’s not that they’re stupid, it’s just a part of their culture and upbringing, and from a psychology standpoint that’s powerful stuff. Why is it that so many people of the east are not christian? the answer is culture. Why is it that so many people of the west are christian? The answer is…culture.
And what makes you think that I’ve never read the bible? I’ll not claim to be a biblical scholar, but read it I have. One day I intend to read it from cover to cover, I’m told that nothing will make someone an atheist (or confirm their atheism) more than reading it from cover to cover.
[/quote]
Cultural programming doesn’t mean that people don’t know what they are talking about. Your an example of it. You read a few books and now your an atheist. I am not impressed with your methodology. You’re an emotive atheist, not a logical one. Second, you act just like every other atheist I have ever dealt with, arrogant, dismissive, and full of yourself. Just like every other atheist. So you are just like you everyone else. No different and certain no more enlightened with the garbage arguments you’ve made so far, space aliens and a mean God.
Here is your argument:
God in the bible was a big fat meany, there fore he must not exist.
I can tell you haven’t read the bible because you don’t know shit about it. It’s a fool proof method. People who pull the same out of context verses that is available on every atheist propaganda doesn’t mean you’ve read it. Having opened if up a few times doesn’t mean you’ve read it.[/quote]
Wow…and you call me emotive. LOL
Fact: your god in your bible was a bit more than a “big fat meany”. As Dawkins put it, “The god of the old testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all of fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sodomistic, capriciously malevolent bully. Those of us schooled from infancy in his ways can become desensitized to their horror”.
Now, it’s important to point out that Dawkins wasn’t insulting your god in this quote, he was simply describing him. But don’t take mine or Dawkins word for it; Churchill and Jefferson were of the same opinion. Churchill had said of god after reading the bible “God, isn’t god a shit!”. Jefferson described god as “A being of terrific character; cruel, vindictive, capricious and unjust”.
Also, I need to point out that you managed to duck the question of why you’re not a Muslim, a Buddhist, or practitioner of some other religion not indigenous to your geography.
