About Belief, Religion and God

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
801

Here’s another question for everyone (going along the same path as the last one):

If it was proven there was no God, why would or wouldn’t you use violence in your everyday life? Please be honest. If someone wronged you, why wouldn’t you just kill him/her? Please do not use Biblical examples of why you wouldn’t because in this example, they are proven irrelevant :slight_smile:

802

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Here’s another question for everyone (going along the same path as the last one):

If it was proven there was no God, why would or wouldn’t you use violence in your everyday life? Please be honest. If someone wronged you, why wouldn’t you just kill him/her? Please do not use Biblical examples of why you wouldn’t because in this example, they are proven irrelevant :)[/quote]

That is a loaded question. I don’t see the relevance of such a question.

If you want to see if people use violence on a day to day basis, check the news.

803

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Here’s another question for everyone (going along the same path as the last one):

If it was proven there was no God, why would or wouldn’t you use violence in your everyday life? Please be honest. If someone wronged you, why wouldn’t you just kill him/her? Please do not use Biblical examples of why you wouldn’t because in this example, they are proven irrelevant :)[/quote]

That is a loaded question. I don’t see the relevance of such a question.

If you want to see if people use violence on a day to day basis, check the news. [/quote]

Loaded question: For sure. Relevant: Most definitely.

This is a question of whether you have morality separate from the Bible.

So what would stop you from murdering others?

804

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Here’s another question for everyone (going along the same path as the last one):

If it was proven there was no God, why would or wouldn’t you use violence in your everyday life? Please be honest. If someone wronged you, why wouldn’t you just kill him/her? Please do not use Biblical examples of why you wouldn’t because in this example, they are proven irrelevant :)[/quote]

That is a loaded question. I don’t see the relevance of such a question.

If you want to see if people use violence on a day to day basis, check the news. [/quote]

Loaded question: For sure. Relevant: Most definitely.

This is a question of whether you have morality separate from the Bible.

So what would stop you from murdering others?
[/quote]

What stops you?

805

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Here’s another question for everyone (going along the same path as the last one):

If it was proven there was no God, why would or wouldn’t you use violence in your everyday life? Please be honest. If someone wronged you, why wouldn’t you just kill him/her? Please do not use Biblical examples of why you wouldn’t because in this example, they are proven irrelevant :)[/quote]

That is a loaded question. I don’t see the relevance of such a question.

If you want to see if people use violence on a day to day basis, check the news. [/quote]

Loaded question: For sure. Relevant: Most definitely.

This is a question of whether you have morality separate from the Bible.

So what would stop you from murdering others?
[/quote]

What stops you? [/quote]

My reason for not using violence or killing others is rooted in my belief that I should not cause suffering onto others unless there is a greater purpose. The only way I would use violence is if it would deter violence from others and there were no other options. This is not a religious belief, but a personal moral belief that I believe in.

806

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Here’s another question for everyone (going along the same path as the last one):

If it was proven there was no God, why would or wouldn’t you use violence in your everyday life? Please be honest. If someone wronged you, why wouldn’t you just kill him/her? Please do not use Biblical examples of why you wouldn’t because in this example, they are proven irrelevant :)[/quote]

That is a loaded question. I don’t see the relevance of such a question.

If you want to see if people use violence on a day to day basis, check the news. [/quote]

Loaded question: For sure. Relevant: Most definitely.

This is a question of whether you have morality separate from the Bible.

So what would stop you from murdering others?
[/quote]

What stops you? [/quote]

My reason for not using violence or killing others is rooted in my belief that I should not cause suffering onto others unless there is a greater purpose. The only way I would use violence is if it would deter violence from others and there were no other options. This is not a religious belief, but a personal one that I believe in.
[/quote]

Romans 2:14,15

For whenever people of the nations that do not have law do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. 15 They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are being accused or even excused.

It is called a conscience. A very useful tool, you would have to agree.

807

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Here’s another question for everyone (going along the same path as the last one):

If it was proven there was no God, why would or wouldn’t you use violence in your everyday life? Please be honest. If someone wronged you, why wouldn’t you just kill him/her? Please do not use Biblical examples of why you wouldn’t because in this example, they are proven irrelevant :)[/quote]

That is a loaded question. I don’t see the relevance of such a question.

If you want to see if people use violence on a day to day basis, check the news. [/quote]

Loaded question: For sure. Relevant: Most definitely.

This is a question of whether you have morality separate from the Bible.

So what would stop you from murdering others?
[/quote]

What stops you? [/quote]

My reason for not using violence or killing others is rooted in my belief that I should not cause suffering onto others unless there is a greater purpose. The only way I would use violence is if it would deter violence from others and there were no other options. This is not a religious belief, but a personal one that I believe in.
[/quote]

Romans 2:14,15

For whenever people of the nations that do not have law do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. 15�?� They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are being accused or even excused.

It is called a conscience. A very useful tool, you would have to agree.[/quote]

Absolutely agree. So are we in agreement that morality can be something outside of religious contexts and be something that develops from the individual? If so, then going back to what you said before, that you would be a less moral person, how so? Wouldn’t you be your own guiding compass?

808

You need to be careful about jumping to conclusions or making assertions based on little evidence.

Your reasoning lacks substance.

809

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
They can’t and they won’t because he does, though.[/quote]

I knew that was going to come up :slight_smile:

But say they somehow did, completely and utterly. Would you be a different person? Would you have different morals? Would you pursue a different life?[/quote]

I’d fuck every thing that moves.

810

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
You need to be careful about jumping to conclusions or making assertions based on little evidence.

Your reasoning lacks substance. [/quote]

Please explain.

811

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Here’s another question for everyone (going along the same path as the last one):

If it was proven there was no God, why would or wouldn’t you use violence in your everyday life? Please be honest. If someone wronged you, why wouldn’t you just kill him/her? Please do not use Biblical examples of why you wouldn’t because in this example, they are proven irrelevant :)[/quote]

I’ll answer all your questions all at once. Rather than base morality in something static I would be a moral relativist. What ever suites me at the time, would be moral. Nothing would means what it does so anything would really go. But, we wouldn’t exist because there would be no creation to exist in, so the point is moot.

812

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
You need to be careful about jumping to conclusions or making assertions based on little evidence.

Your reasoning lacks substance. [/quote]

Please explain.[/quote]

I never said it was outside of the context of religion, and I didn’t say it develops within someone.

Both conclusions you drew, because I mentioned conscience.

813

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
You need to be careful about jumping to conclusions or making assertions based on little evidence.

Your reasoning lacks substance. [/quote]

Please explain.[/quote]

I never said it was outside of the context of religion, and I didn’t say it develops within someone.

Both conclusions you drew, because I mentioned conscience.[/quote]

I was confused because your quote:

“They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are being accused or even excused.”

Is this not the development of morality from an individuals perspective? I’m confused on what we disagree with.

Anyways, back to my original question: What is stopping your from murdering others if there is no God? It is conscience which can exist without religion, right?

To summarize my whole point of this question: I’m trying to demonstrate that morality doesn’t necessitate religion. You could be just as moral without it.

814

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
You need to be careful about jumping to conclusions or making assertions based on little evidence.

Your reasoning lacks substance. [/quote]

Please explain.[/quote]

I never said it was outside of the context of religion, and I didn’t say it develops within someone.

Both conclusions you drew, because I mentioned conscience.[/quote]

I was confused because your quote:

“They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are being accused or even excused.”

Is this not the development of morality from an individuals perspective? I’m confused on what we disagree with.

Anyways, back to my original question: What is stopping your from murdering others if there is no God? It is conscience which can exist without religion, right?

To summarize my whole point of this question: I’m trying to demonstrate that morality doesn’t necessitate religion. You could be just as moral without it.
[/quote]

Conscience was put there by God. I mean, what animal demonstrates the kind of morality that humans have?

815

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

To summarize my whole point of this question: I’m trying to demonstrate that morality doesn’t necessitate religion. You could be just as moral without it.
[/quote]

816

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

To summarize my whole point of this question: I’m trying to demonstrate that morality doesn’t necessitate religion. You could be just as moral without it.
[/quote]

Yes, you could be just as moral without religion.

817

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
You need to be careful about jumping to conclusions or making assertions based on little evidence.

Your reasoning lacks substance. [/quote]

Please explain.[/quote]

I never said it was outside of the context of religion, and I didn’t say it develops within someone.

Both conclusions you drew, because I mentioned conscience.[/quote]

I was confused because your quote:

“They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are being accused or even excused.”

Is this not the development of morality from an individuals perspective? I’m confused on what we disagree with.

Anyways, back to my original question: What is stopping your from murdering others if there is no God? It is conscience which can exist without religion, right?

To summarize my whole point of this question: I’m trying to demonstrate that morality doesn’t necessitate religion. You could be just as moral without it.
[/quote]

Conscience was put there by God. I mean, what animal demonstrates the kind of morality that humans have?[/quote]

Lots of animals. Here’s some examples:

  1. A teenage female elephant nursing an injured leg is knocked over by a rambunctious hormone-laden teenage male. An older female sees this happen, chases the male away, and goes back to the younger female and touches her sore leg with her trunk.
  2. A rat in a cage refuses to push a lever for food when it sees that another rat receives an electric shock as a result.
  3. A male Diana monkey who learned to insert a token into a slot to obtain food helps a female who can’t get the hang of the trick, inserting the token for her and allowing her to eat the food reward.â?¦

Source: http://pressblog.uchicago.edu/2009/01/27/do_animals_have_a_sense_of_mor.html

818

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

To summarize my whole point of this question: I’m trying to demonstrate that morality doesn’t necessitate religion. You could be just as moral without it.
[/quote]

Yes, you could be just as moral without religion.[/quote]

But I’m trying to figure out why you said you wouldn’t be without it.

819

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
You need to be careful about jumping to conclusions or making assertions based on little evidence.

Your reasoning lacks substance. [/quote]

Please explain.[/quote]

I never said it was outside of the context of religion, and I didn’t say it develops within someone.

Both conclusions you drew, because I mentioned conscience.[/quote]

I was confused because your quote:

“They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are being accused or even excused.”

Is this not the development of morality from an individuals perspective? I’m confused on what we disagree with.

Anyways, back to my original question: What is stopping your from murdering others if there is no God? It is conscience which can exist without religion, right?

To summarize my whole point of this question: I’m trying to demonstrate that morality doesn’t necessitate religion. You could be just as moral without it.
[/quote]

Conscience was put there by God. I mean, what animal demonstrates the kind of morality that humans have?[/quote]

Lots of animals. Here’s some examples:

  1. A teenage female elephant nursing an injured leg is knocked over by a rambunctious hormone-laden teenage male. An older female sees this happen, chases the male away, and goes back to the younger female and touches her sore leg with her trunk.
  2. A rat in a cage refuses to push a lever for food when it sees that another rat receives an electric shock as a result.
  3. A male Diana monkey who learned to insert a token into a slot to obtain food helps a female who can’t get the hang of the trick, inserting the token for her and allowing her to eat the food reward.â?¦

Source: http://pressblog.uchicago.edu/2009/01/27/do_animals_have_a_sense_of_mor.html

[/quote]

Now as moral as humans. Btw, we are using the term “moral” as a given. What defines moral?

820

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

To summarize my whole point of this question: I’m trying to demonstrate that morality doesn’t necessitate religion. You could be just as moral without it.
[/quote]

Yes, you could be just as moral without religion.[/quote]

But I’m trying to figure out why you said you wouldn’t be without it.[/quote]

Why should I be as moral?