A True Texas Hero!

[quote]lixy wrote:
rsg wrote:
In such a situation I wouldn’t think twice about killing someone.

Rest assured, neither would any of us in that particular situation. When you are held hostage and your hosts/guests are being molested (and the aggressor is considering rape), it’s called self-defense.

What Texasguy said (I may be wrong though) is that it’s OK to shoot preemptively. The argument is that, since they stole money, they could kill people next. A pretty common logical fallacy that seem to work just fine in US politics.

Don’t smoke that reefer or you will end up like those mad junkies

Anyway, the solution is not shooting people on sight, but rather taking the necessary steps to curb crime in Texas. Securing the borders and working on social disparities seem like a good place to start.[/quote]
“What Texasguy said (I may be wrong though) is that it’s OK to shoot preemptively. The argument is that, since they stole money, they could kill people next. A pretty common logical fallacy that seem to work just fine in US politics.”

What I said is that they stole money and should be shot for it. Under Texas law, as I quoted in a previous post, they can be.

There is nothing preemptive about it. They stole money, they got caught and were shot.

[quote]texasguy2 wrote:
"Texas law allows…[/quote]

Oh, well, if the law allows it then it must be right and proper because there are no such thing as immoral laws…

[quote]pat36 wrote:
When these dick wads decided that stealling other people’s shit was a good idea, they assumed the risk of injury and death. Fuck 'em, they got what they asked for. It is simmilar to your indifference to when a soldier gets killed becuase in the end he signed up for it.[/quote]

Acts of war and theft are a smite different. I do not condone acts of theft but also I don’t condone acts of non-defensive violence.

And yes, I agree with you, actions do have consequences. It still doesn’t make what happened right. If the cops had responded with the same actions what would the consequences have been?

I don’t think I could kill two people for stealing. Now if I thought my family or I were in any kind of danger, no question about it, but in this case, not he, his family or property were in any danger, so if I were in his shoes I wouldn’t have pulled the trigger – at least not with the intent of killing anyone. That being said, I think the idea of private property is invaluable to free society and one has to have the right to protect it – including deadly force. Otherwise, the concept is rendered meaningless. So, in terms of morality, not cool; legally…well, they shouldn’t have been breaking into someone’s house.

And why is race being made an issue? Does anyone think the outcome would have been different had the two burglars been white?

[quote]IvanDmitritch wrote:
Does anyone think the outcome would have been different had the two burglars been white?[/quote]

Yes.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
texasguy2 wrote:
"Texas law allows…

Oh, well, if the law allows it then it must be right and proper because there are no such thing as immoral laws…[/quote]

Or immoral people that victimize the elderly.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
IvanDmitritch wrote:
Does anyone think the outcome would have been different had the two burglars been white?

Yes.[/quote]

Explain. Are you saying he wouldn’t have shot them if they were white? or are you referring to the reaction of the authorities?

I think he would of shot them if they were pink, he obviously wanted to kill someone.

[quote]IvanDmitritch wrote:
I don’t think I could kill two people for stealing. Now if I thought my family or I were in any kind of danger, no question about it, but in this case, not he, his family or property were in any danger, so if I were in his shoes I wouldn’t have pulled the trigger – at least not with the intent of killing anyone. That being said, I think the idea of private property is invaluable to free society and one has to have the right to protect it – including deadly force. Otherwise, the concept is rendered meaningless. So, in terms of morality, not cool; legally…well, they shouldn’t have been breaking into someone’s house.

And why is race being made an issue? Does anyone think the outcome would have been different had the two burglars been white?[/quote]

Nope white, black, mexican, asian…the asshole is the same color.
I don’t know that I could have shot them either, but I do belive in defending myself my property and my neighbors person and property. If it means shooting somebody to do it, well I guess it depends on the circumstances, but if push comes to shove…
And I really don’t give a fuck that they are dead.
They chose to do harm and somebody else decided to put a stop to it. They ended up dead 'cause of it…Oooops!

So I just saw a news story about it and they had the audio. Wow! He did warn them not to move: “Move, your dead!” There was then a couple second pause…I’m guessing they were moving…and Bang!

[quote]texasguy2 wrote:
There is nothing preemptive about it. They stole money, they got caught and were shot. [/quote]

Your own words were “there is no telling what they had planned next”. That’s you trying to justify a preemptive blow.

Shooting people over nickels and dimes while million-dollars thieves do a few years in jail is plain wrong. I don’t care about what Texan books say, it’s just awful to shoot people over money.

Shooting to maim is foolish. Warning your advesary they are about to be shot is creating a disadvantage for yourself and may likely inspire unintended behavior.

If deadly force is warranted then it should be used without hesitation. The intended victims of a crime should not be required to evaluate the intent of the criminal. Fear and caution based on demonstrated actions should be sufficient for any prudent man.

Getting shot is an occupational hazard when your chosen profession is being a criminal.

[quote]hedo wrote:
Getting shot is an occupational hazard when your chosen profession is being a criminal.[/quote]

Falling is an occupational hazard for window washers. Getting killed by a reckless driver is a hazard for any one who gets in a vehicle. All actions have consequences – so what?

The real question is what warrants deadly force? This wasn’t one of those situations in my opinion.

Nor mine.

[quote]texasguy2 wrote:
Your friends are lucky. I highly doubt their story will make it to the news, not even local news. Those sorts of crimes are more common than you’d believe. Molestation could have easily been rape and sounds like it almost was. In my opinion, they should have been killed for copping a feel much less breaking in uninvited. I doubt that was the first crime committed by these people either and I bet they won’t be caught. Who knows who else they have victimized or will victimize, break ins are not a one time event.
[/quote]

They were lucky indeed - there was a story on the radio that 3 men hit over 8 houses over that weekend and killed 3 people, injured the rest.

They even stole the steak out of his freezer - unbelievable.

[quote]IvanDmitritch wrote:
So I just saw a news story about it and they had the audio. Wow! He did warn them not to move: “Move, your dead!” There was then a couple second pause…I’m guessing they were moving…and Bang![/quote]

That’s what I was hoping to hear. According to the article it sounds like he could be prosecuted. Hopefully he is not charged with anything.

[quote]lixy wrote:
texasguy2 wrote:
There is nothing preemptive about it. They stole money, they got caught and were shot.

Your own words were “there is no telling what they had planned next”. That’s you trying to justify a preemptive blow.

[/quote]

There was nothing preemtive about it. They were in caught in the act. Preemtive means “before the act”. They were in the act.
I am not saying they deserved to die, but they were warned. I bet if they stopped, they’d still be alive. And I still don’t give a fuck about them. They tried take the easy road in life by stealing what other people earned; they ended up paying the highest price of all.
In the end it all comes to find you.

[quote]pat36 wrote:

In the end it all comes to find you.[/quote]

Agreed. Though I consider myself of rational mind I still have a small place in my heart for cosmic karma – what goes around, comes around. That goes for the “gentleman” who pulled the trigger as well.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
texasguy2 wrote:
"Texas law allows…

Oh, well, if the law allows it then it must be right and proper because there are no such thing as immoral laws…[/quote]

Which is more immoral - defending your property, or allowing two punk assed thugs to walk off with it?

In this case - the fact that there even needs to be a law on the books that allows protection of property with deadly force is immoral.

I figured you could understand this - what with you being the resident militant libertarian/anarchist.

How do you reconcile all this glaring need to hide behind the government with your anarchy?

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
pat36 wrote:

In the end it all comes to find you.

Agreed. Though I consider myself of rational mind I still have a small place in my heart for cosmic karma – what goes around, comes around. That goes for the “gentleman” who pulled the trigger as well.[/quote]

He’s 70-fucking years-old. Karma had better pedal a little faster if it’s going to catch up with him.