A Nation of Cowards

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Otep wrote:
100meters wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
tGunslinger wrote:

In a country founded by slave owners, race has bedeviled the nation throughout its history, with blacks denied the right to vote just a few decades ago. Obama’s triumph last November as well as the nomination of Holder stand as historic achievements of two black Americans.

Funny, last I looked, John Adams, Alexander Hamilton and Sam Adams, among many others, never owned slaves. I’d say he was ignorant, but he knows exactly what he’s doing.

mike

Nevermind the many, many, many, many, many others who did own slaves who we can safely assume Holder was speaking of.

Specifically George Washington, who presided over the constitutional convention, and Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the Constitution.

I mean, I’ll agree that the ownership of slaves among the founders is not nearly as uniform as Holder’s statement would have the uninformed believe, but he’s got a point.

Back to U.S. History 101 for you, Otep. Jefferson did not write the Constitution. You’re thinking of the guy who was elected Pres after Tom.

And 100mistakes, you need some schooling too along with Mr. Holder. There were some slaveholders who can be considered “founders” and there are actually many, many, many, many who were not.

If anything, the New England colonies were the rabid revolutionaries who fueled the insurrection and thus the formation of a new nation. And they as a general rule were not slaveowners. The southern colonies, the slaveowners, were generally more sympathetic and loyal to the British before and during the Revolution.

To be fair, however, Virginia had a large share of slaveowners and quite a few “founders”.

Some of you bozos would be well served by staying out of discussions that involve American history when you only possess an elementary knowledge of it.[/quote]

I wonder if the liberal crowd ever acknowledges any of the good things the founding fathers did? I know they’re the dreaded “Dead White Males,” but do they ever sit and think, “Gee, what a great trajectory they put this country on during the first 20 years of the nation. What a great country I have to live in now!” All I ever hear about is how the founding fathers owned slaves. Many did. Many of them had a more nuanced view of slavery than the liberals are currently able to comprehend.

22

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The Pythagorean Identity and basic trig idents as an avatar? Now I respect you even more! :>

[/quote]

That’s right, you’re a math teacher. Anyways, I’m only up to Pre-Calc and Trig now, so hold off on the praises till I’ve tackled Calculus, heh.

23

I think I’ve figured out how the “dialogue on race” will proceed:

24

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Dr_Razor wrote:
Does this offend anyone else besides me?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090219/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/holder_race

No. I think it would be a welcome development if we could discuss things like the color of crime and the correlation between race and IQ without someone yelling, “Racist!” Something tells me that this isn’t what Holder has in mind. [/quote]

Well you can’t, because there’s no scientific basis for that bullshit and everyone knows that. So if you spit that shit, you’re going to get called on it. So no, it’s probably not what he has in mind because only a horse’s ass would say it in seriousness.

25

[quote]tGunslinger wrote:

In a country founded by slave owners, race has bedeviled the nation throughout its history, with blacks denied the right to vote just a few decades ago. Obama’s triumph last November as well as the nomination of Holder stand as historic achievements of two black Americans.

While that’s true, I don’t recall hearing many “Hosannas!” when W. continually put minorities in powerful positions.

Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, Alberto Gonzalez, Carlos Guiterrez, Elaine Chao, Rod Paige, Mel Martinez, Alphonso Jackson, Norman Mineta, and Spencer Abraham were all minorities who served on W.'s cabinet.

Where was the credit then?

[/quote]

I would call Obama’s a huge triumph, but you’re correct in that Bush did more than his share of installing blacks in important positions.

I may say that the man is everything from a douchebag to murdering villain, but I won’t say he’s racist. He clearly wasn’t.

26

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
tGunslinger wrote:

In a country founded by slave owners, race has bedeviled the nation throughout its history, with blacks denied the right to vote just a few decades ago. Obama’s triumph last November as well as the nomination of Holder stand as historic achievements of two black Americans.

While that’s true, I don’t recall hearing many “Hosannas!” when W. continually put minorities in powerful positions.

Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, Alberto Gonzalez, Carlos Guiterrez, Elaine Chao, Rod Paige, Mel Martinez, Alphonso Jackson, Norman Mineta, and Spencer Abraham were all minorities who served on W.'s cabinet.

Where was the credit then?

I would call Obama’s a huge triumph, but you’re correct in that Bush did more than his share of installing blacks in important positions.

I may say that the man is everything from a douchebag to murdering villain, but I won’t say he’s racist. He clearly wasn’t.[/quote]

And after his turn at the wheel, you could even say Bush installed Obama. Granted, he did have to win the Dem nomination, but after that? Smooth sailing to the White House.

27

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Dr_Razor wrote:
Does this offend anyone else besides me?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090219/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/holder_race

No. I think it would be a welcome development if we could discuss things like the color of crime and the correlation between race and IQ without someone yelling, “Racist!” Something tells me that this isn’t what Holder has in mind.

Well you can’t, because there’s no scientific basis for that bullshit and everyone knows that. So if you spit that shit, you’re going to get called on it. So no, it’s probably not what he has in mind because only a horse’s ass would say it in seriousness.[/quote]

Thank you for making my point.

28

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:

I wonder if the liberal crowd ever acknowledges any of the good things the founding fathers did? I know they’re the dreaded “Dead White Males,” but do they ever sit and think, "Gee, what a great trajectory they put this country on during the first 20 years of the nation.

What a great country I have to live in now!" All I ever hear about is how the founding fathers owned slaves. Many did. Many of them had a more nuanced view of slavery than the liberals are currently able to comprehend.

[/quote]

I wonder how you manage to make such ridiculous bullshit generalizations without ever managing to have a shred of proof to back them. Must be fucking magic.

You have no fucking idea what you’re talking about. Everyone respects the “dead white males” as you’ve called them, but no makes them into deities. They were men with flaws, sometimes serious ones, like owning other people. Was it OK during that time? I guess that’s how they rationalized it… but the fact that certain people were rabid abolitionists says to me that people had the capability, especially after the Enlightenment and the ideas coming out of the French Revolution, to realize that owning other people was wrong.

Those who chose to do it CHOSE to do it. If they think there was nothing wrong with it, then so be it, but it does not excuse the sin.

Nuanced views? Are we a fuckin apologist for them now? Christ. No. You know what the view was? Free fucking labor. What tycoon doesn’t want that shit?

So I guess in a way you’re right, because I don’t masturbate on the American flag while I’m reading the Declaration of Independence every day. My bad.

But don’t believe for a second that every liberal doesn’t know exactly how great we’ve managed to make this country- we’re the ones who’ve been struggling to get it here more often then not, as opposed to conservatives who are quite fuckin happy keeping up the status quo.

And I hate to tell you, but the man who’s pen won the populace in favor of freedom, Thomas Paine, was about as liberal a man as you can be. And he was far, far more intelligent than the half witted horse shit you throw on here.

But no, keep up with your nuances you genius you. You’ll fool some ten year old Ayn Rand fans maybe.

29

[quote]Sloth wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
tGunslinger wrote:

In a country founded by slave owners, race has bedeviled the nation throughout its history, with blacks denied the right to vote just a few decades ago. Obama’s triumph last November as well as the nomination of Holder stand as historic achievements of two black Americans.

While that’s true, I don’t recall hearing many “Hosannas!” when W. continually put minorities in powerful positions.

Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, Alberto Gonzalez, Carlos Guiterrez, Elaine Chao, Rod Paige, Mel Martinez, Alphonso Jackson, Norman Mineta, and Spencer Abraham were all minorities who served on W.'s cabinet.

Where was the credit then?

I would call Obama’s a huge triumph, but you’re correct in that Bush did more than his share of installing blacks in important positions.

I may say that the man is everything from a douchebag to murdering villain, but I won’t say he’s racist. He clearly wasn’t.

And after his turn at the wheel, could you even say Bush installed Obama. Granted, he did have to win the Dem nomination, but after that? Smooth sailing to the White House.[/quote]

hahah.

I wouldn’t argue that either.

30

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Dr_Razor wrote:
Does this offend anyone else besides me?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090219/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/holder_race

No. I think it would be a welcome development if we could discuss things like the color of crime and the correlation between race and IQ without someone yelling, “Racist!” Something tells me that this isn’t what Holder has in mind.

Well you can’t, because there’s no scientific basis for that bullshit and everyone knows that. So if you spit that shit, you’re going to get called on it. So no, it’s probably not what he has in mind because only a horse’s ass would say it in seriousness.

Thank you for making my point. [/quote]

You go find a point, and then I’ll go make it for you, cause you sure as shit ain’t doing it yourself.

31

Where I’m from, we call blacks- nigz, aboz whites- honkeyz, crackerz latinos- spickz, beanz and asians- gookz or chinkz.

I don’t really think his overall generalization is accurate, we are post-racism here, in that we sort of make fun of it by using it even for groups we belong to.

We just identify each other with those terms. Mind you we don’t do this in professional environments, but in open social settings and on the streets.

32

Not offended as I would not expect much from him. It is offensive though.

Americans? problem is they are too obsessed with race and talk about it too much and most of it is just white male bashing.

And blacks owned slaves too and actively participated in the slave trade. In fact slavery still exists in some black countries and ethnic cleansing of whites and Asians is still not uncommon to this day in Africa. But I’m sure Holder doesn’t care about that because the truth is so inconvenient sometimes.

33

someone need to explain to me what exactly we are supposed to be discussing. I am not hearing this from the irish, the chinese, the jews, or any other culture (pretty much every culture)that has been discriminated against, slaughtered, or enslaved.

Nobody (in any meaningful quantity) gives a shit about race except the eternal victims.

what is so special about the US that we need to have any conversation that hasn’t already been had?

34

I am wondering why he feels that this is within the scope of his official duties of the post he occupies, there certainly should be better things, things we are paying him to concern himself with that he could actually be discussing through the media.

35

“Everyone respects the “dead white males” as you’ve called them, but no makes them into deities.”

I dunno, I read and watch a lot of media and I cannot recall anything about the founding fathers in recent memory that was portrayed as complimentary. I could be missing it though of course, but I would think if it were so I could at least remember something since I can recall plenty of references that were purely critical.

36

[quote]tGunslinger wrote:

While that’s true, I don’t recall hearing many “Hosannas!” when W. continually put minorities in powerful positions.

Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, Alberto Gonzalez, Carlos Guiterrez, Elaine Chao, Rod Paige, Mel Martinez, Alphonso Jackson, Norman Mineta, and Spencer Abraham were all minorities who served on W.'s cabinet.

Where was the credit then?

[/quote]

“Whitewashed” is typically the excuse

37

[quote]tGunslinger wrote:

While that’s true, I don’t recall hearing many “Hosannas!” when W. continually put minorities in powerful positions.

Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, Alberto Gonzalez, Carlos Guiterrez, Elaine Chao, Rod Paige, Mel Martinez, Alphonso Jackson, Norman Mineta, and Spencer Abraham were all minorities who served on W.'s cabinet.

Where was the credit then?

[/quote]

Very true, but it would have helped if the most prominent of them weren’t incredibly incompetent (Rice and Gonzalez).

38

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Is it even possible to get through high school or college these days without being beat over the head about race, racism, and diversity?[/quote]

Virtually impossible, and it’s been almost five years since I graduated college. Some pinkos at my alma mater wrote in to the school paper recently to denounce their classmates for mocking the opposing goalie’s hometown and chanting “open net goals are for fairies” during a hockey game. “Classism and homophobia.” Unreal.

[Apparently Al Iafrate whipped the puck around the boards late in a Bruins win in the 80’s and told the press afterwards, “Open net goals are for faggots”, which is pretty awesome.]

39

I’m sure many of you Americans have seen this already, but I thought it was pretty good…

“WHITE " Pride”

This is great. I have been wondering about why Whites are racists, and no other race is…

Proud to be White

Michael Richards better known as Kramer from TVs Seinfeld does make a good point.

This was his defense speech in court after making racial comments in his comedy act… He makes some very interesting points…

Someone finally said it. How many are actually paying attention to this? There are African Americans, Mexican Americans, Asian Americans, Arab Americans, etc.

And then there are just Americans. You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction. You call me ‘White boy,’ ‘Cracker,’ ‘Honkey,’ ‘Whitey,’ ‘Caveman’… and that’s OK.

But when I call you, Nigger, Kike, Towel head, Sand-nigger, Camel Jockey, Beaner, Gook, or Chink … You call me a racist.

You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you… so why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?

You have the United Negro College Fund. You have Martin Luther King Day.

You have Black History Month. You have Cesar Chavez Day.

You have Yom Hashoah. You have Ma’uled Al-Nabi.

You have the NAACP. You have BET… If we had WET (White Entertainment Television), we’d be racists. If we had a White Pride Day, you would call us racists.

0A
If we had White History Month, we’d be racists.

If we had any organization for only whites to ‘advance’ OUR lives, we’d be racists.

We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce, and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce. Wonder who pays for that??

A white woman could not be in the Miss Black American pageant, but any color can be in the Miss America pageant.

If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships… You know we’d be racists.

There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US. Yet if there were ‘White colleges’, that would be a racist college.

In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your race and rights. If we marched for our race and rights, you would call us racists.

You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you’re not afraid to announce it. But when we announce our white pride, you call us racists.

You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But, when a white police officer shoots a black gang member or beats up a black drug dealer running from the law an d posing a threat to society, you call him a racist.

I am proud… But you call me a racist.

Why is it that only whites can be racists??

There is nothing improper about this e-mail. Let’s see which of you are proud enough to send it on. I sadly don’t think many will. That’s why we have LOST most of OUR RIGHTS in this country. We won’t stand up for ourselves!

BE PROUD TO BE WHITE!

It’s not a crime YET… but getting very close!

40

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
tGunslinger wrote:

While that’s true, I don’t recall hearing many “Hosannas!” when W. continually put minorities in powerful positions.

Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, Alberto Gonzalez, Carlos Guiterrez, Elaine Chao, Rod Paige, Mel Martinez, Alphonso Jackson, Norman Mineta, and Spencer Abraham were all minorities who served on W.'s cabinet.

Where was the credit then?

Very true, but it would have helped if the most prominent of them weren’t incredibly incompetent (Rice and Gonzalez).[/quote]

you think that’s going to change?