Politics. here is a real discussion. Politicians, first, are usually creatures of their own creation. Most have never earned a nickel in the private sector. More funding? More $ is wasted in administrative costs unnecessarily. We get so many freebies that we automatically take these as a given, that we forget these things cost money. I wish they’d privatize a hell of a lot more. And the sodomy laws. I’d vote for the first guy who says, ‘I want to be able to get a hummer without the fear of imprisonment’.
Well it may have been a great day for the republic but the rest of the world is still shuddering. I live outside the states and speak several different languages so get a perspective that perhaps the US media dosen’t allow. Guys the rest of the world does not see whats happening the same way you are being told they do. They do not need or want you to be their policemen for them. In fact they would be most appreciative if you would stop creating problems so that you have an excuse to station troops in their countries. Stop screaming if you investigate you will find out that is exactly what is happening. The Saudias have ask several times, most politely, if the US would please remove their troops. Those troops are still there and now the Saudias are painted as bad guys. If Sadam is such a bad guy for thinking about building A-bombs then what about the Koreans who openly admit to it? Guess the difference is that they have no oil and the last time the US went in there they got their butts kicked so hard they thought they had grown necklesses. Come on wake up our country has a lot of good things to share with the world, but this dominating attitude is only making more and more enemies. Americans traveling abroad were once proud to say I’m an American. Now they tend to shuffle their feet and look away when some asks " any Americans here?" And what happens? You just voted in More of the same. Oh well good luck with it. Me Im staying right here where its safe.
Regarding the the USA’s actions in the “war against terrorism” - bombing campaigns and the like…
Given that:
a) A lot of muslim people believe that it is not a war against terrorism - rather a war against islam.
b) terrorist organisations, by their very defintion do not have an clearly targetable core tied to any country or government (granted, some nations are more ameniable to them than others).
I’m trying to understand how bombing campaigns are, in the long run, going to solve what seems to be the core of the problem - a poor understanding and the resulting bad relationship between the islamic and non-islamic people of the world.
Sure it might scare a few terrorists, and damage some of the infrastructure that supports them, but in the end, are the everyday people in numerous countries - who are the largest supporters of terrorists going to like America more for having their communities attacked?
In my opinion, yes - Sadam Hussain and Osama Bin Laden are not nice people, and I would much rather live in America than Iraq or Afganistan (I don’t live in either place). They somehow need to understand that what they are doing is NOT acceptable to the international community, and possibily force is the only language they understand.
BUT the situation is very complicated - therefore I think the UN is right to encourage America to tread VERY carefully. If military action is taken, some Americans/Europeans/non-muslims will understand the intention, but for the reasons mentioned above MANY of the people directly affected will missunderstand the reasons - further strengthening their resolve.
The world is getting smaller all the time, and all nations (and that includes you America, Iraq, Afganistan, Russia, Northern Ireland, Palistine, Israel, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia etc etc etc) need to be finding new ways to co-operate and co-exist - not new reasons to hate each other.
So in summary, I don’t even pretend to know what the right answer is, but I think the argument should definately not be limited to “bomb or not” but rather “what is the problem, and what can be done to resolve it” - there seems to be precious little on that front.
Shane - Being an American Isolationist, I largely agree with what you say. However, I disagree on 3 of you points. 1. Korea does have oil. Yes they currently import their oil but America and Japan spent the last ten years proving Korea’s claims of having massive reserves of untapped oil. 2. Korea didn’t kick our butts. The Chinese did. (And they mostly likely still could today. Not by dominating battles but by sheer numbers just like last time.) 3. This isn’t a disagreement as much as it is an explanation as to why so many Americans are ashamed to be Americans. A few decades ago, the liberal elite hijacked the media. For decades now it’s been pounded into our heads that Americans are the bad guys and that white males are responsible for ALL the evil in the world. I’m not saying that America or white males haven’t committed there share of atrocites but the media is dead wrong in their perspective.
Matt and several other people on this thread have been stating that when life begins (or when one is a human being) is definitional or really, based on one’s personal philosophy rather than science. Matt says that his personal philosophy is that human life begins when the baby is viable. Matt, according to Webster’s, viability is “capable of living; especially : capable of surviving outside the mother’s womb without artificial support.” Your attempts to call my arguments for those with terminal diseases and dementia as strawmen is quite incorrect. As you might know, people with terminal diseases etc. would need “articifial support” and do still remain humans. If you do not accept the argument, so be it (but do look at the dictionary above), but it is not a strawman. Matt also says that one cannot rely on science. In reality, however, viability is based solely on scientific and technological advances. According to a booklet put out by the Ohio Dept. of Health, at 24 weeks, 4 out of 10 babies born will now live. At 28 weeks, 9 out of 10 babies will now live. At 32 weeks, 99.9% of babies will live. So, Matt might say, “Okay, let us put viability at 24 weeks.” Not so fast, there are examples of babies who have been born at 22 and even 21 weeks who have survived (something that surely was not possible 30 or 40 years ago). In the end, viability tells us nothing about the baby but rather, is a test of the medical advances of the past few decades. So, viability is no longer an option because it varies from case to case (one baby may develop more quickly than another) and possibly, from hospital to hospital (who has the best equipment?). However, we can look to one other thing to find the beginning of human life. That of course, as I have said all along, is conception. At conception, the sperm and the egg unite and form the unique combination of chromosomes that define the human being. Before conception, this blueprint did not exist anywhere. After conception, it exists. Those chromosomes are found everywhere in your body but they are all copies of that single cell. The body then grows and develops but the only thing that is added (outside of some artificial transplant) is food, fluids, and oxygen. There is no other magical moment in those few seconds before or after birth, in those nine months in the womb (or those 21 weeks!) that defines a human being. Science does tell us when human life begins, and that is at conception.
Lang is correct. Upon the conception between the sperm and the egg, the chromosomes meet and human life begins. This process is one act: Conception, growth, birth, growth, death. During this whole time the person is a human being, NOT AFTER BIRTH. The whole concept of abortion is that people are killing for convenience, most likely because they (the man and woman) made poor decisions, putting their quest for personal freedom and gratification above what once were common morals of society. People want to be able to play with fire and not get burned. I find it disturbing that if a person wants the child, then their view is “I’m going to have a baby, there is a child in me, growing.” But if they don’t want the child then their view is “Oh, it’s just fetal tissue.” Nothing scientifically changes, just the way one looks at the issue. It doesn’t make sense to me that the same people bitch about a whale beaching itself or a tree getting cut down yet have the faintest disregard for human life. The Republican Domination of Congress and the White House was a triumph of conservatism and hopefully the beginning of the end of modern liberalism in this Glorious Republic.
Sorry Natt wasn’t aware of that oil so it must be claimed by either china or Japan and the US is taking a hands off stance. Still didnt answer the question about why Sadam is such a bad guy and the Korean dictator ( those guys give new meaning to the word) is not. If its a question of arms they are standing upo yelling " we got um, so what" and no one even says boo to them. No there is clearly more to this than we are being told and I’m sure it has to do with getting troops into Iraq to stay. But, I do agree 100% that the media is giving you the wrong slant.
I didn’t comment on your Saddam/Korean dictator statement because I agree with it. The Korean situtation is a little different than the Iraq situation though. We knew exactly what the Koreans were doing and where they got the materials. Do you know why? We literally gave them their nuclear arsenal. In the 1996, the last administration (Bill Clinton, Madeline Albright,…etc) gave the Koreans materials and know how to develop a nuclear power program. Anyone with a lick of common sense knew that they would use the materials to make nuclear weapons. The Saddam situation has many important differences. We don’t know what he has. We know things like he purchased a special grade of ground silica dioxide that can be used to make biological weapons. I don’t think we are really sure what biological weapons he has. There is speculation that he would act against us through terrorist organizations. Also, it’s conceivable that he has small pox in his possession. Do you realize that you don’t need a delivery system for that? All he would have to do is infect a handful of people. Then have these people fly over to the US. These people could infect American passengers who were on the same plane and it would soon spread across the whole country. There is another difference with the Koreans: Mutually Assured Destruction. If they ever attacked the US with nukes, we could launch a counter attack that would destroy their country. It’s plausible that Saddam could launch a biological attack that couldn’t/wouldn’t be traced back to him. That’s my take on why Americans are much more concerned with Iraq than they are with Korea. Natt
Yeah, I know the term legal war sounds strange, but war with Iraq would be the right thing to do. Let me explain: Since Iraq has been “disobeying” international law for years now, by nailing him we would be enforcing it, however, I don’t want us enforcing international law and thats not the reason we would fight him, I believe. Secondly, the UN has not been great about following its own laws and making good judgements, for example: the breach of the international criminal court’s own rules regarding the trial of Slobodan Milosovic sp? and the just pure stupidity of giving Sudan a seat on the human rights counsel. With that, I think it should be hard for them to complain that we are law breakers. Third, what I am saying does not only apply to the USA, but to all other countries. For example: say two countries want to fight, since it is the right of a sovereign nation to make war, what gives the right to third party to get involved? In my opinion, the third party makes things worse. I know the USA does this all the time but atleast WE do it and don’t drag others into it by needing weapons and troops. Lastly, of course we would be in the super heavy weight division, but this could be more of a weakness than a strength, since our people live better and easier than most we might not have the stomach for a long “low intensity” conflict, which most of our opponents are used to. Sorry I took so long to reply, I’ve just been lazy. Never gonna happen again! LOL