[quote]therajraj wrote:
if you need to put me on ignore I understand
No all I was asking for was clarification of what you wanted to see happen. Then we went on a tangent on Chile.
not arguing anything just wanted clarification
4 year degree in Econ & finance and working towards 2 accounting designations. Working on the US CPA.[/quote]
If you have a 4 year degree you should know by now to only use reputable non-bias sources such as exposingthelie.com and lifesitenews.com
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
2) I expect America to pass her own laws and be something which other countries can follow. When abortions in America are outlawed, I expect murder to be charged in the State in which she lives. As our Constitution was intended. In other words, the mother would face the crime of murder, murder of her unborn child.
[/quote]
Good luck with waiting for the laws to change. Apparently 90% of people are OK with the current law on the issue.
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
I love it. I wake up to a full new page of responses and STILL not ONE member of the pro-abortion side had even attempted to do anything other than deflect the conversation away from the very simple question I have been asking. Over and over and over and over and over again.
Let me try one more time, though I expect another answer similar to, “Well, you guys have to want life in prison for the mother and the doctor, so there!” Wtf?
One. More. Time.
Exactly when does a conceived human become a human being?
Until this very simple, fundamental question gets answered, NOTHING else we are talking about makes any difference whatsoever. It’s like talking philosophy before defining your terms. We’ll be talking past each other the whole time.
So, pretty please, with a cherry on top, answer the damned question. [/quote]
Sure I’ll take a stab at it. The way I see it, for the entirety of the being’s existence, even before conception, it is “human” in that it contains human genetic material. I wouldn’t personally consider it a sovereign human being until it can survive independent of the womb, however. [/quote]
I actually thought about you when I wrote the question. As much as I disagree with you, you have my respect in that you are one of more logistically consistent posters when it comes to straight moral discussions.
Thanks for answering. I fully agree with your statement that, for the entirety of a being’s existence (note you even said the word “being”) it is “human.” (Not exactly sure about the before conception part, but it is irrelevant to the point).
Now, wouldn’t you agree that a “being” that is “human,” could logically be called a “human being?” I did not mention “sovereign,” and that for a reason. As soon as you talking “sovereign,” you get into territory that allows you to justify infanticide as well as a whole host of other justifications for murder. People in comas are no longer “sovereign,” for example. And newborn infants are in exactly the same position of helplessness as are babies in the last few weeks of pregnancy. Now extrapolate logically from this.
Thanks for having the balls to answer.
Edit: typo
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
I love it. I wake up to a full new page of responses and STILL not ONE member of the pro-abortion side had even attempted to do anything other than deflect the conversation away from the very simple question I have been asking. Over and over and over and over and over again.
Let me try one more time, though I expect another answer similar to, “Well, you guys have to want life in prison for the mother and the doctor, so there!” Wtf?
One. More. Time.
Exactly when does a conceived human become a human being?
Until this very simple, fundamental question gets answered, NOTHING else we are talking about makes any difference whatsoever. It’s like talking philosophy before defining your terms. We’ll be talking past each other the whole time.
So, pretty please, with a cherry on top, answer the damned question. [/quote]
After the 1st trimester.[/quote]
Is that because it doesn’t have a name before then, lol?
Okay, please explain to us what it is from the moment of conception until the start of the second trimester. This should be interesting.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
if you need to put me on ignore I understand
No all I was asking for was clarification of what you wanted to see happen. Then we went on a tangent on Chile.
not arguing anything just wanted clarification
4 year degree in Econ & finance and working towards 2 accounting designations. Working on the US CPA.[/quote]
If you have a 4 year degree you should know by now to only use reputable non-bias sources such as exposingthelie.com and lifesitenews.com[/quote]
Says the guy who tried to argue that unborn children are not human because they don’t yet have name.
Incidentally, to return to that for just a moment. My own unborn son is now nearing the 30th week of his life. We have yet to finally decide upon a name for him because it’s so hard to find a male name that works well in both Japanese and English. So, are you going to look me in the eyes, so to speak, and tell me that the boy moving around in my wife’s belly, reacting to voices and movement and sound and stimuli, who’s face I’ve already seen multiple times via the miracle of 3D imagery, are you really going to tell me, my son is not human?
I can damn sure guarantee you’d better not say that to my face.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
I love it. I wake up to a full new page of responses and STILL not ONE member of the pro-abortion side had even attempted to do anything other than deflect the conversation away from the very simple question I have been asking. Over and over and over and over and over again.
Let me try one more time, though I expect another answer similar to, “Well, you guys have to want life in prison for the mother and the doctor, so there!” Wtf?
One. More. Time.
Exactly when does a conceived human become a human being?
Until this very simple, fundamental question gets answered, NOTHING else we are talking about makes any difference whatsoever. It’s like talking philosophy before defining your terms. We’ll be talking past each other the whole time.
So, pretty please, with a cherry on top, answer the damned question. [/quote]
After the 1st trimester.[/quote]
Is that because it doesn’t have a name before then, lol?
Okay, please explain to us what it is from the moment of conception until the start of the second trimester. This should be interesting.
[/quote]Also, is that at midnight between days 93 and 94?
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
I love it. I wake up to a full new page of responses and STILL not ONE member of the pro-abortion side had even attempted to do anything other than deflect the conversation away from the very simple question I have been asking. Over and over and over and over and over again.
Let me try one more time, though I expect another answer similar to, “Well, you guys have to want life in prison for the mother and the doctor, so there!” Wtf?
One. More. Time.
Exactly when does a conceived human become a human being?
Until this very simple, fundamental question gets answered, NOTHING else we are talking about makes any difference whatsoever. It’s like talking philosophy before defining your terms. We’ll be talking past each other the whole time.
So, pretty please, with a cherry on top, answer the damned question. [/quote]
After the 1st trimester.[/quote]
Is that because it doesn’t have a name before then, lol?
Okay, please explain to us what it is from the moment of conception until the start of the second trimester. This should be interesting.
[/quote]
It’s whatever us humans decide it is which appears to be unknown at the moment since we can’t agree. Science can only tell us physical traits of what it is, not what laws should apply to it.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
if you need to put me on ignore I understand
No all I was asking for was clarification of what you wanted to see happen. Then we went on a tangent on Chile.
not arguing anything just wanted clarification
4 year degree in Econ & finance and working towards 2 accounting designations. Working on the US CPA.[/quote]
If you have a 4 year degree you should know by now to only use reputable non-bias sources such as exposingthelie.com and lifesitenews.com[/quote]
Says the guy who tried to argue that unborn children are not human because they don’t yet have name.
Incidentally, to return to that for just a moment. My own unborn son is now nearing the 30th week of his life. We have yet to finally decide upon a name for him because it’s so hard to find a male name that works well in both Japanese and English. So, are you going to look me in the eyes, so to speak, and tell me that the boy moving around in my wife’s belly, reacting to voices and movement and sound and stimuli, who’s face I’ve already seen multiple times via the miracle of 3D imagery, are you really going to tell me, my son is not human?
I can damn sure guarantee you’d better not say that to my face. [/quote]
I guess you suck at math, what trimester is the 30th week in?
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
I love it. I wake up to a full new page of responses and STILL not ONE member of the pro-abortion side had even attempted to do anything other than deflect the conversation away from the very simple question I have been asking. Over and over and over and over and over again.
Let me try one more time, though I expect another answer similar to, “Well, you guys have to want life in prison for the mother and the doctor, so there!” Wtf?
One. More. Time.
Exactly when does a conceived human become a human being?
Until this very simple, fundamental question gets answered, NOTHING else we are talking about makes any difference whatsoever. It’s like talking philosophy before defining your terms. We’ll be talking past each other the whole time.
So, pretty please, with a cherry on top, answer the damned question. [/quote]
After the 1st trimester.[/quote]
Is that because it doesn’t have a name before then, lol?
Okay, please explain to us what it is from the moment of conception until the start of the second trimester. This should be interesting.
[/quote]
It’s whatever us humans decide it is which appears to be unknown at the moment since we can’t agree. Science can only tell us physical traits of what it is, not what laws should apply to it.[/quote]
I didn’t ask about laws. I asked WHAT IS IT?
I can tell you what science says it is. Do you want me to tell you?
Can I answer please? Cortes you know my answer but I shall try to help you ; )
The conceived human is ALWAYS a human being, from the earliest moments of conception. Never once do they change into a virus, a parasite those previous two are different species, though often times some will make that particular, weak comparison, a duck or a horse or anything other than a human. Yes they are very tiny and sometimes appear simple, but size or complexity has never quantified worth to me. Even if I tower over most people at 6’7"
Should I expect others to follow my lead? I doubt it! jaa jaa jaa
[quote]Cortes wrote:
I love it. I wake up to a full new page of responses and STILL not ONE member of the pro-abortion side had even attempted to do anything other than deflect the conversation away from the very simple question I have been asking. Over and over and over and over and over again.
Let me try one more time, though I expect another answer similar to, “Well, you guys have to want life in prison for the mother and the doctor, so there!” Wtf?
One. More. Time.
Exactly when does a conceived human become a human being?
Until this very simple, fundamental question gets answered, NOTHING else we are talking about makes any difference whatsoever. It’s like talking philosophy before defining your terms. We’ll be talking past each other the whole time.
So, pretty please, with a cherry on top, answer the damned question. [/quote]
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
if you need to put me on ignore I understand
No all I was asking for was clarification of what you wanted to see happen. Then we went on a tangent on Chile.
not arguing anything just wanted clarification
4 year degree in Econ & finance and working towards 2 accounting designations. Working on the US CPA.[/quote]
If you have a 4 year degree you should know by now to only use reputable non-bias sources such as exposingthelie.com and lifesitenews.com[/quote]
Says the guy who tried to argue that unborn children are not human because they don’t yet have name.
Incidentally, to return to that for just a moment. My own unborn son is now nearing the 30th week of his life. We have yet to finally decide upon a name for him because it’s so hard to find a male name that works well in both Japanese and English. So, are you going to look me in the eyes, so to speak, and tell me that the boy moving around in my wife’s belly, reacting to voices and movement and sound and stimuli, who’s face I’ve already seen multiple times via the miracle of 3D imagery, are you really going to tell me, my son is not human?
I can damn sure guarantee you’d better not say that to my face. [/quote]
I guess you suck at math, what trimester is the 30th week in?[/quote]
I do suck at math. But, luckily for me, my reading comprehension skills and powers of perception are exquisite. As is my memory.
You, YOU mentioned a child not having a name was an indication it is not human. Do I really need to go back and get that and post it here again? What are you, the guy from Memento?
We weren’t talking about math, genius.
If you have to ask which game you were playing, you do not realize OR your tyring to be dense. I will take the previous option.
Again please, which portion was I conflicting?
[quote]therajraj wrote:
And What game was I playing? You made a conflicting statement and I asked you to clarify. Anyways I don’t care.
So to the other pro lifers, what do you think the legal punishment for consenting to an abortion if made illegal?[/quote]
Source please.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Good luck with waiting for the laws to change. Apparently 90% of people are OK with the current law on the issue.[/quote]
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Source please.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Good luck with waiting for the laws to change. Apparently 90% of people are OK with the current law on the issue.[/quote]
[/quote]
Yes, please.
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Source please.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Good luck with waiting for the laws to change. Apparently 90% of people are OK with the current law on the issue.[/quote]
[/quote]
No source, but if its incorrect please change the title of the next thread. I assume the pro choice crowd does not get stuck with a larger percentage of down syndrome fetuses. Unless of course God wants them aborted in which case he just needs to try a little harder on that last 10%.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
if you need to put me on ignore I understand
No all I was asking for was clarification of what you wanted to see happen. Then we went on a tangent on Chile.
not arguing anything just wanted clarification
4 year degree in Econ & finance and working towards 2 accounting designations. Working on the US CPA.[/quote]
If you have a 4 year degree you should know by now to only use reputable non-bias sources such as exposingthelie.com and lifesitenews.com[/quote]
Says the guy who tried to argue that unborn children are not human because they don’t yet have name.
Incidentally, to return to that for just a moment. My own unborn son is now nearing the 30th week of his life. We have yet to finally decide upon a name for him because it’s so hard to find a male name that works well in both Japanese and English. So, are you going to look me in the eyes, so to speak, and tell me that the boy moving around in my wife’s belly, reacting to voices and movement and sound and stimuli, who’s face I’ve already seen multiple times via the miracle of 3D imagery, are you really going to tell me, my son is not human?
I can damn sure guarantee you’d better not say that to my face. [/quote]
I guess you suck at math, what trimester is the 30th week in?[/quote]
I do suck at math. But, luckily for me, my reading comprehension skills and powers of perception are exquisite. As is my memory.
You, YOU mentioned a child not having a name was an indication it is not human. Do I really need to go back and get that and post it here again? What are you, the guy from Memento?
We weren’t talking about math, genius.
[/quote]
The name was really not the end of the point I was trying to make. Next time I will try to not do any lead-ins to avoid confusion. I really was not trying to imply an unnamed fetus was something less than human.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Source please.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Good luck with waiting for the laws to change. Apparently 90% of people are OK with the current law on the issue.[/quote]
[/quote]
No source, but if its incorrect please change the title of the next thread. I assume the pro choice crowd does not get stuck with a larger percentage of down syndrome fetuses. Unless of course God wants them aborted in which case he just needs to try a little harder on that last 10%.[/quote]
Is English your first language?
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
if you need to put me on ignore I understand
No all I was asking for was clarification of what you wanted to see happen. Then we went on a tangent on Chile.
not arguing anything just wanted clarification
4 year degree in Econ & finance and working towards 2 accounting designations. Working on the US CPA.[/quote]
If you have a 4 year degree you should know by now to only use reputable non-bias sources such as exposingthelie.com and lifesitenews.com[/quote]
Says the guy who tried to argue that unborn children are not human because they don’t yet have name.
Incidentally, to return to that for just a moment. My own unborn son is now nearing the 30th week of his life. We have yet to finally decide upon a name for him because it’s so hard to find a male name that works well in both Japanese and English. So, are you going to look me in the eyes, so to speak, and tell me that the boy moving around in my wife’s belly, reacting to voices and movement and sound and stimuli, who’s face I’ve already seen multiple times via the miracle of 3D imagery, are you really going to tell me, my son is not human?
I can damn sure guarantee you’d better not say that to my face. [/quote]
I guess you suck at math, what trimester is the 30th week in?[/quote]
I do suck at math. But, luckily for me, my reading comprehension skills and powers of perception are exquisite. As is my memory.
You, YOU mentioned a child not having a name was an indication it is not human. Do I really need to go back and get that and post it here again? What are you, the guy from Memento?
We weren’t talking about math, genius.
[/quote]
The name was really not the end of the point I was trying to make. Next time I will try to not do any lead-ins to avoid confusion. I really was not trying to imply an unnamed fetus was something less than human.[/quote]
Good. Thank you.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Source please.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Good luck with waiting for the laws to change. Apparently 90% of people are OK with the current law on the issue.[/quote]
[/quote]
No source, but if its incorrect please change the title of the next thread. I assume the pro choice crowd does not get stuck with a larger percentage of down syndrome fetuses. Unless of course God wants them aborted in which case he just needs to try a little harder on that last 10%.[/quote]
Is English your first language?
[/quote]
Yes but I was never very good at it.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Source please.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Good luck with waiting for the laws to change. Apparently 90% of people are OK with the current law on the issue.[/quote]
[/quote]
No source, but if its incorrect please change the title of the next thread. I assume the pro choice crowd does not get stuck with a larger percentage of down syndrome fetuses. Unless of course God wants them aborted in which case he just needs to try a little harder on that last 10%.[/quote]
Is English your first language?
[/quote]
Yes but I was never very good at it.[/quote]
Hahah! As much as I sometimes want to throttle you, you’re alright.