[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
First off, you do NOT even live in America so I don’t see or understand why you try to chime in like your opinion has any merit.[/quote]
You are exactly what is wrong with America. Your policies have far reaching consequences throughout the world, but heaven forbid that someone affected by your idiocy voices an opinion.
Absolutely disgusting.
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
First off, you do NOT even live in America so I don’t see or understand why you try to chime in like your opinion has any merit. Second, you need to check your facts brooster.
[/quote]
The criticism in that article doesn’t make any sense. It points to a quote from Santorum to a pro-choice Democrat where he says that when he was 30 and first ran for office he didn’t hold the same views as he does now - and that his father in law convinced him on a scientific level that an embryo is a human life. Good answer to a pro-choice Democrat if you ask me.
The criticism is that he also said:
“I decided to run for president not because I had this idea I needed to become president of the United States, but one of the reasons Karen and I decided to do that in the face of having this child who needed so much care and help was because we wanted to make sure that we had a healthcare system and we had a society that respected the dignity of every human life.”
And they claim that is an inconsistency? Gabriel Santorum was born and died in 1996. Santorum first ran for office in 1988. From the beginning he was a pro-life advocate and became a stronger pro-life advocate through his life experience.
More evangelicals backing Santorum? Good…
But that’s a video of Romney…???
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
First off, you do NOT even live in America so I don’t see or understand why you try to chime in like your opinion has any merit.[/quote]
You are exactly what is wrong with America. Your policies have far reaching consequences throughout the world, but heaven forbid that someone affected by your idiocy voices an opinion.
Absolutely disgusting.[/quote]
x2
[quote]aussie486 wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
First off, you do NOT even live in America so I don’t see or understand why you try to chime in like your opinion has any merit.[/quote]
You are exactly what is wrong with America. Your policies have far reaching consequences throughout the world, but heaven forbid that someone affected by your idiocy voices an opinion.
Absolutely disgusting.[/quote]
x2[/quote]
x3
Spot on
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
My apologies, not sure how I missed this post. Again, please accept my apologies.
Because we are having a ‘discussion’ about the definition of human life. Please prove to me the human sperm is alive, like a person is alive. Either one walking the world or even the embryo you claim is impossible to define.
Life is a characteristic that distinguishes objects that have signaling and self-sustaining processes (i.e., living organisms) from those that do not, either because such functions have ceased (death), or else because they lack such functions and are classified as inanimate.
Source for above definition ^ Koshland Jr, Daniel E. (March 22, 2002). “The Seven Pillars of Life”. Science 295 (5563): 2215Ã???Ã???Ã??Ã?¢??2216. doi:10.1126/science.1068489. PMID 11910092. Retrieved 2009-05-25
[quote]orion wrote:
According to whom?
I am sure that I can find a definition of “alive” that fits.
edit: and I would be very careful with that, because if you answer that sperm cannot survive on their own you leave a gap open I could drive a truck through, with room to spare. [/quote]
[/quote]
Alright, blood and sperm is alive then.
I am glad that this is settled-[/quote]
Yet, they are not individual human lives, traversing the human life cycle. You keep getting smacked down point, by point, by point. When you run out of points to get smacked down over, you then completely restart the same points from the beginning. Keep this together; individual human organism (life). You are the individual organism from the womb. Deal with this honestly, or let the more honest pro-choicers take a crack at it, why don’t you?
[/quote]
Excuse me?
They are distinct living units that are human.
As long as you, or anyone else fails to address this, I am utterly unable to retreat.
[/quote]
They are not the human organism. A sperm is a haploid gamete. A human skin cell is diploid somatic cell of a human organism. It’s addressed in Anatomy/Bio 101. The zygote/embryo are distinct, individual human organisms, traveling IT’S human life cycle. Not the skin cell life cycle. Not the sperm life cycle. You don’t have to retreat, don’t get me wrong. But, you’re flat out ill informed.
[/quote]
That is meaningless.
There are species where individuals forego the chance to procreate but put their shoulder the wheel anyway because overall their genes get carried forward in time.
That would apply to blood cells.
I also finds it hard to find a meaningful distinction between drones and sperm. They are living, haploid organism that exist for the sole benefit of procreating.
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
I will state the same thing AGAIN, sperm are not alive! You cannot pick and choose a characteristic for some organism and use the trait of a different organism to compare to human embryo.
[quote]orion wrote:
Also, sperm can even reproduce.
There is no necessity to see sperm as a way for humans to reproduce, what if humans are the way sperm reproduces?[/quote]
[/quote]
Sooooo…
Why do you pick and choose then?
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
The embryo is a stage of life that if left uninterrupted, results in a complete human life. Without the stage you want to eliminate, none of us would be here.
[quote]orion wrote:
Yet again, a functioning respiratory and circulatory system and/or a functioning brain, including the brain stem. A zygote does not even have them, let alone functioning ones.
I do not wish to dig up information on how many zygotes fail to become a human being. If you think that this matter is so deeply important than it is really up to you to look up information that disagrees with you, just on the off chance that what you take for granted might be wrong.
Which, in this case, it apparently is.[/quote]
[/quote]
So, a zygote has some potential.
So?
So do you believe your opinion has any kind of sway towards me? Second, you have yet to even address my point in this thread. Prove to me the unborn are NOT alive and distinct whole human beings from the very moment of conception. This has never been done, even closely. Instead you result to trying to demeanor myself and position.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
You are exactly what is wrong with America. Your policies have far reaching consequences throughout the world, but heaven forbid that someone affected by your idiocy voices an opinion.
Absolutely disgusting.[/quote]
Jump on-board because you might have to tread water on your own. Thanks for your contribution to the topic though.
[quote]aussie486 wrote:
x2[/quote]
Again, says the guy who doesn’t even have a voice or stance of his own.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
x3
Spot on
[/quote]
These traits of human life are selected because they represent whole human beings in total, not just certain, select traits. Similar to selecting traits of say a certain animal species. Other animals have similar characteristics, while they don’t have the exact same traits because they are in fact a different species.
Come on orion, should we use the logic of say, Hollywood? According to the similar logic you are using, the entire human species is a virus. In “the Matrix” they make a good case of classifying our species.
[quote]orion wrote:
Sooooo…
Why do you pick and choose then?[/quote]
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
My apologies, not sure how I missed this post. Again, please accept my apologies.
Because we are having a ‘discussion’ about the definition of human life. Please prove to me the human sperm is alive, like a person is alive. Either one walking the world or even the embryo you claim is impossible to define.
Life is a characteristic that distinguishes objects that have signaling and self-sustaining processes (i.e., living organisms) from those that do not, either because such functions have ceased (death), or else because they lack such functions and are classified as inanimate.
Source for above definition ^ Koshland Jr, Daniel E. (March 22, 2002). “The Seven Pillars of Life”. Science 295 (5563): 2215Ã???Ã???Ã???Ã???Ã???Ã??Ã?¢??2216. doi:10.1126/science.1068489. PMID 11910092. Retrieved 2009-05-25
[quote]orion wrote:
According to whom?
I am sure that I can find a definition of “alive” that fits.
edit: and I would be very careful with that, because if you answer that sperm cannot survive on their own you leave a gap open I could drive a truck through, with room to spare. [/quote]
[/quote]
Alright, blood and sperm is alive then.
I am glad that this is settled-[/quote]
Yet, they are not individual human lives, traversing the human life cycle. You keep getting smacked down point, by point, by point. When you run out of points to get smacked down over, you then completely restart the same points from the beginning. Keep this together; individual human organism (life). You are the individual organism from the womb. Deal with this honestly, or let the more honest pro-choicers take a crack at it, why don’t you?
[/quote]
Excuse me?
They are distinct living units that are human.
As long as you, or anyone else fails to address this, I am utterly unable to retreat.
[/quote]
They are not the human organism. A sperm is a haploid gamete. A human skin cell is diploid somatic cell of a human organism. It’s addressed in Anatomy/Bio 101. The zygote/embryo are distinct, individual human organisms, traveling IT’S human life cycle. Not the skin cell life cycle. Not the sperm life cycle. You don’t have to retreat, don’t get me wrong. But, you’re flat out ill informed.
[/quote]
That is meaningless.
There are species where individuals forego the chance to procreate but put their shoulder the wheel anyway because overall their genes get carried forward in time.
That would apply to blood cells.
I also finds it hard to find a meaningful distinction between drones and sperm. They are living, haploid organism that exist for the sole benefit of procreating.
[/quote]
And we, individual human organisms, are diploid. Big clue. Sperm doesn’t reproduce, either, by the way. A sperm doesn’t have a sperm. The resulting fusion of egg and sperm is not a sperm-embryo, but an individual diploid human organism now, and already, traveling it’s life cycle. Big clue as to what REPRODUCES what. Come on, stop. Aren’t you a little embarrassed to be playing this game? Don’t let me catch you in creation thread, when you’re slaughtering science in a willful attempt to circumvent the obvious. Originally, I’d have thought you’d be one to own up to it.
The science is settled Orion. It has been settled for a looong time. Your life started in the womb. You today, and the orion-embryo, are the same individual organism. Anybody who says different is the biology equivalent of a flat-earther. Sorry /shrug.
Obviously this point is not coming across to you. So stop and let us go a different route.
Can you tell me why the cells in an embryo - know where to go, when to be there, when to duplicate and to what total number of divisions need to be, all to make up the given tissue? Then how to even function as a living tissue. What is the secret to this cascading, orchestrated series of events?
[quote]orion wrote:
So, a zygote has some potential.
So?[/quote]
edited
Here is a Wiki page for everyone. It will be awesome how pro-choice posters try and tell me the pro-choice side of the debate is CORRECT.
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Again, says the guy who doesn’t even have a voice or stance of his own.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
x3
Spot on
[/quote]
[/quote]
I was speaking in general terms.
You’re not doing a very good job of convincing me. But I guess since you fund an institution that supports legalized abortion you probably don’t have much conviction in your beliefs in the first place.
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
So do you believe your opinion has any kind of sway towards me? Second, you have yet to even address my point in this thread. Prove to me the unborn are NOT alive and distinct whole human beings from the very moment of conception. This has never been done, even closely. Instead you result to trying to demeanor myself and position.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
You are exactly what is wrong with America. Your policies have far reaching consequences throughout the world, but heaven forbid that someone affected by your idiocy voices an opinion.
Absolutely disgusting.[/quote]
[/quote]
Read my post.
In general, you do not even understand the position you support, as actually defending it. I am not here to convince you, I just ask you to support your position without changing the definitions of words.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I was speaking in general terms.
You’re not doing a very good job of convincing me. But I guess since you fund an institution that supports legalized abortion you probably don’t have much conviction in your beliefs in the first place.[/quote]
So I re-read your post and it is just like every one your nearly fifteen thousand other posts, empty comments that have nothing of sustenance to add. You don’t even realize how ironic you are, when you say that I am, is in your opinion what is wrong with America. Take a look at this countries history (you are so intently interested, remember?) and tell me why you think America is in the situation she is.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
So do you believe your opinion has any kind of sway towards me? Second, you have yet to even address my point in this thread. Prove to me the unborn are NOT alive and distinct whole human beings from the very moment of conception. This has never been done, even closely. Instead you result to trying to demeanor myself and position.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
You are exactly what is wrong with America. Your policies have far reaching consequences throughout the world, but heaven forbid that someone affected by your idiocy voices an opinion.
Absolutely disgusting.[/quote]
[/quote]
Read my post.[/quote]
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
So I read your post and it is just like every one your nearly fifteen thousand other posts, empty comments that have nothing of sustenance to add. You don’t even realize how ironic you are, when you say that I am, is in your opinion what is wrong with America. Take a look at this countries history (you are so intently interested, remember?) and tell me why you think America is in the situation she is.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
So do you believe your opinion has any kind of sway towards me? Second, you have yet to even address my point in this thread. Prove to me the unborn are NOT alive and distinct whole human beings from the very moment of conception. This has never been done, even closely. Instead you result to trying to demeanor myself and position.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
You are exactly what is wrong with America. Your policies have far reaching consequences throughout the world, but heaven forbid that someone affected by your idiocy voices an opinion.
Absolutely disgusting.[/quote]
[/quote]
Read my post.[/quote]
[/quote]
Because of idiots like you, who don’t understand simple concepts like quoting on an internet forum.
If you don’t understand that US policy affects people outside your own borders, you are part of the problem, not the solution.
Hey, Brother! Do you think there is life after birth? Do you believe in Mom? - Nah! I don’t believe these things, I’m an atheist. I mean, have you ever seen Mom?