9/11 Evidence (Or Lack Thereof)

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
Covert special operations require small amounts of individuals. And secrecy can be had, just as an example, ULTRA had thousands of participants and all kept quiet for yearrrs.[/quote]

Are you kidding? You’re comparing breaking enemy ciphers with attacking your own country. Keeping you mouth shut about cracking German messages is an entirely different thing than keeping your mouth shut after being order to shoot a cruise missile on the Pentagon; or to fly “drones” into the Twin Towers.

One of the problems with the conspiracy tape is that they blame so many different agencies; from the CIA, the FBI, then Pentagon, various high ranking offices to private contractors and military suppliers that you end up with hundreds, if not more, people having to be involved.

The loose change video alleges that since Boeing produces remote controller drones for the Army, they could’ve supplied remote controlled aircraft to crash into the tower or the pentagon.

That’s very nice, but is there going to be only one lone engineer rigging up those planes? Of course not. Or maybe it was a cruise missile? From where was it fired? It must’ve gone missing from inventory somewhere too? How many people had to know about it and agree to shut up about it before and after the fact?

Is the theory now that the terrorist cell was organised and financed by the U.S. Government? That could be plausible; unlikely, but plausible. Here too, you’d still run the risk of a leak blowing the whole thing. And if that’s the theory you’re going with, then we’re back to the official version again, except with different people pulling the strings.

How is it nearly impossible? Has anyone else attempted the same and found it difficult?

The flight instructor in the video apparently works at a small private flying school, where they fly on Cessnas, not Boeing 707s. It could be the guy appeared a terrible pilot simply because he was flying an unfamiliar aircraft.

The U.S. had a presence in Saudi Arabia and surrouding coutries since Gulf War I.

Or maybe some operation against the Talibas was already in the works previously?

There could be a lot of other, perfectly valid explanations; why focus only on those requiring a vast, evil conspiracy?

22

[quote]MisterAmazing
It’s sad to think that our own government did this, but we must take into account how much they had to benefit from it. The most simplistic means of discovering who was behind it is to find who had the greatest motivation to execute the attack, who would benefit most from it.[/quote]

And the “most simplistic means” garantee you’ll find the truth? Come on.

Various people profit in all wars and all attacks; that doesn’t mean they participated in setting them up before hand. Germany and Japan “profited” from WWII by having their industrial capacity entirely rebuilt after the war. Was getting their asses kicked by the allies all part of their evil plans?

German engineering and Japanese technology are the best in the world today; did they plan their defeat to attain that purpose? Sure seems to me like they profited from losing.

23

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
100meters wrote:

  1. If KSM (Khalid Shaikh Mohammed) was the mastermind, and he was a member of al qaeda and met with bin laden, and the hijackers were recruited by al qaeda, then wasn’t al qaeda involved? (answer:yes!)

Funny story about KSM. He’s been held by the US at undisclosed locations for years, and his supposed testimony(provided in transcript form), forms most of the basis for the 9/11 Report. Strange how their key witness wouldn’t be allowed to testify in front of the commission when they requested him to. Again, take the government’s word for it!

100meters wrote:
2.Ali Abdul Aziz Ali was a major funder and al qaeda member.

from the 9/11 report:

“Ali sent Shehhi and [Mohammed] Atta a total of $114,500 in five transfers ranging from $5,000 to $70,000.”

“…assisted nine future hijackers between April and June 2001 as they came through Dubai. He helped them with plane tickets, traveler’s checks, and hotel reservations; he also taught them about everyday aspects of life in the West, such as purchasing clothes and ordering food.”

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/index.html

Read the 9/ll report, but you’re gonna feel pretty stupid after you do…
Here’s more strange information:
"General Mahmoud Ahmad, the head of Pakistan’s intelligence agency (the ISI), was in Washington the week prior to 9/11, meeting with CIA chief George Tenet and other US officials (103-04).

ISI chief Ahmad had ordered $100,000 to be sent to Mohamed Atta prior to 9/11 (104-07). "

Won’t find those in your 9/11 report because they ommitted that information.
[/quote]

Uhh…
There are boatloads of sources in the report-omissions aside. And then you quote TFH Dr. David Ray Griffin a theologian whose expertise in theology has helped him become in an expert in engineering, intelligence gathering, etc. Not only does he believe that Jesus walked in america, but he says:

“ISI chief Ahmad had ordered $100,000 to be sent to Mohamed Atta prior to 9/11 (104-07).”

uhmm…yeah Doc…Omar Sheikh under the orders of General Mahmoud Ahmed head of ISI wired 100,000 dollars to Atta. Sheikh was in the isi, and had built terror training camps in Afghanistan and was titled osama’s “special son”.

So yes. A guy associated with al qaeda helped fund an al qaeda recruit who had met with KSM.

thanks Dr. Griffin. (Note: his omission of the detail of Omar Sheikh.)

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/south/10/08/india.ressa/

24

This book has been getting some good reviews:

Here’s a review of it by Austin Bay:

http://www.strategypage.com/onpoint/articles/20068161442.asp

and please, JTF, spare me the one-off diatribe on the editor of Popular Mechanics being Chertoff’s cousin – the ad hominems from the fever swamp aren’t really persuasive.

And here’s the official WTC report:

http://www.house.gov/science/hot/wtc/wtcreport.htm

25

[quote]MisterAmazing wrote:
…
Sadly enough, a small number of powerful people in our country have profited greatly from this ‘war on terror’ and the events that followed September 11th. The most convincing portion of the tape describes how all the alleged hijackers (who would all be dead) were discovered to be alive and working civilians in arab nations proceeding the ‘hijackings’.
…[/quote]

A small number of powerful people in this country have been profiting from the rebuilding efforts that have occurred as the result of certain “hurricanes” that have struck the Southeast in recent years. This is conclusive evidence that our government has used top-secret hurricane death rays to the detriment of the People!

26

Of course! It’s all clear now! Those satellites are not simply providing images of the hurricanes, they are actually GENERATING and controlling them!

And Katrina did not hit just anywhere, but specifically targetted a city with a large black population and a very visible gay community. Coincidence? I think not!

27

[quote]pookie wrote:
Of course! It’s all clear now! Those satellites are not simply providing images of the hurricanes, they are actually GENERATING and controlling them!

And Katrina did not hit just anywhere, but specifically targetted a city with a large black population and a very visible gay community. Coincidence? I think not![/quote]

To Pookie and Boston,

Finally you guys are getting it and have stopped believing all the lies of the government.

'Bout time.

28

[quote]pookie wrote:
BostonBarrister A small number of powerful people in this country have been profiting from the rebuilding efforts that have occurred as the result of certain “hurricanes” that have struck the Southeast in recent years. This is conclusive evidence that our government has used top-secret hurricane death rays to the detriment of the People!

Of course! It’s all clear now! Those satellites are not simply providing images of the hurricanes, they are actually GENERATING and controlling them!

And Katrina did not hit just anywhere, but specifically targetted a city with a large black population and a very visible gay community. Coincidence? I think not!

[/quote]

You guys want to know what’s really scarry!? There are people out there who really believe it:

http://www.rense.com/general67/waskatrinaamanmade.htm

The Illuminati and their government agents, Bush, Blair,Cheney, Rice, Putin, Sharon etc. etc. all play their roles in the Illuminati’s hideous agenda of total control of Planet Earth. They do not care or have any compassion for the millions and possibly billions of humans who will have to be killed for the Illuminati to achieve their SICK agenda. Hurricane Katrina and the destruction and suffering it has caused is just one example of the SICK Illuminati minds who are behind the scenes manipulating these catastrophic wars and events on their way to achieve what they call their “Great Work of Ages”.

Replace “illuminati” with “neocon” and/or “Jew” and the above rant sounds eerily familiar, doesn’t it?

29

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
how one of the flight instructors called the pilot who flew the pentagon plane a terrible pilot. Yet they flew like an ace fighter, simply astounding.[/quote]

I found the transcript of the part they use in the “Loose Change” video. Here it is:

=========

MARCEL BERNARD, FREEWAY AIRPORT: So we can take a look inside to just get a general look and feel of this type of trainer.

O’CONNOR: Hanjour wanted to rent aCessna 172, says owner Marcel Bernard, but he needed to prove he was good enough, and went up three times with two instructors.

BERNARD: On the last flight, they made it clear to him that they felt that his overall proficiency was so poor that they were going to insist that he do a little more flying with us and get some additional training before they would allow him to rent an aircraft.

(Above, in bold, the part on which Loose Change concentrates. They ignore the remainder of the interview which I’ve included below)

O’CONNOR: Hanjour didn’t come back, and while landing a Cessna is far different from landing a 757, Bernard says keeping it in the air isn’t.

BERNARD: We believe that even though he didn’t necessarily have experience in jets, that once the airplane was airborne, that he could have easily pointed it in any direction he wanted to, and crashed it into a building or whatever would be a real feasibility, real possibility.

==========

“Easily pointed it?” Apparently, it doesn’t take an ace fighter pilot to crash an airliner in some of the largest buildings in the world. And since the airplanes where hijacked mid-flight, he didn’t have to take off either.

But I wonder, why is it that only the part which supports the conspiracy is presented? Isn’t the stated goal to reach “The Truth?” We’ve got “9/11 Scholars for Truth” and a whole other bunch of loonies who harp about truth every chance they get. But as soon as you dig a little deeper behind the “facts” they present, you often find that their “truth” is actually some convenient distortion of available facts.

And then they act surprised when people don’t buy it.

30

go to google videos and type in:

LOOSE CHANGE

its an hour+ video with alot of evidence supporting the side that says our gov’t was behind 9/11

if your into that sort of thing.

31

After which you can go here:

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/

And see just about every claim made by “loose change” critically analyzed and shown to be, for the most part, fallacious and disingenuous.

In you’re into that thing called “reality.”

32

Another thing, there are 3 versions of the “Loose Change” video:

Loose Change
Loose Change 2nd Edition
Loose Change 2nd Ed. Recut

Presenting “The Truth” from a mountain of evidence is apparently more difficult than one might think…

Make sure to get the last one, as it’s the version with the freshest and best bullshit.

33

[quote]pookie wrote:
Another thing, there are 3 versions of the “Loose Change” video:

Loose Change
Loose Change 2nd Edition
Loose Change 2nd Ed. Recut

Presenting “The Truth” from a mountain of evidence is apparently more difficult than one might think…

Make sure to get the last one, as it’s the version with the freshest and best bullshit.
[/quote]

i could only find Loose Change 2nd edition online

there is also something coming up on courtTV about it this week…i think wed?

where can i find the other two L/C vid’s? i checked google and killtown.com

34

[quote]B rocK wrote:
where can i find the other two L/C vid’s? i checked google and killtown.com
[/quote]

Ummm… I think the point is why would you want to watch a steaming pile of horse shizzle when you could be out fishing or something.

35

[quote]B rocK wrote:
where can i find the other two L/C vid’s? i checked google and killtown.com
[/quote]

Recut:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501

The others are easy to find.

36

[quote]pookie wrote:
B rocK wrote:
where can i find the other two L/C vid’s? i checked google and killtown.com

Recut:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501

The others are easy to find.
[/quote]

maybe not in the US. i can’t find anything other then the 2nd edition.

37

[quote]B rocK wrote:
maybe not in the US. i can’t find anything other then the 2nd edition.[/quote]

It doesn’t really matter which one you watch, they’re all wrong. The recent ones have been re-edited to address some of the criticism (ie, cherry-picking of facts; partial and out-of-context quotes; quoting from conspiracy sites; creative measurements, etc) leveled at them; but they still contain vast amounts of bullshit and are good for about an hour of cheap entertainment.