I tried chasing my dreams and childish ambitions, those things my mother told me I could have if I tried hard enough. Maybe someday I can still have them, but I’m not going to pursue them working at the wages I earn now.
I agree with most of this article. At the same time, I wouldn’t trade an ounce of the suffering I’ve felt while being poor and hopeful for a pound of rich and complacent.
I’ll keep writing. Maybe you’ll see my stuff in a few years, and maybe not.
-Boogie.
[quote]Ambugaton wrote:
I tried chasing my dreams and childish ambitions, those things my mother told me I could have if I tried hard enough. Maybe someday I can still have them, but I’m not going to pursue them working at the wages I earn now.
I agree with most of this article. At the same time, I wouldn’t trade an ounce of the suffering I’ve felt while being poor and hopeful for a pound of rich and complacent.
I’ll keep writing. Maybe you’ll see my stuff in a few years, and maybe not.
-Boogie. [/quote]
Don’t know who first said it but it’s a good quote and one I’ve found to be very true;
There are no unrealistic goals, just unrealistic time frames.
Yeah I hate whining people who sit around and complain that they can’t for whatever excuse get something they want but saying the measurement of your success is only monetary and your societal standing is absurd to me. I only want enough money to support the life style I WANT (which by most standards isn’t all that much), I couldn’t care less about my societal standing.
I want enough money and enough free time to do what I want with my life. Like I said the amount of money isn’t all that much and I will do the bare minimum to have it, I will not work longer hours or work harder for something I have no need for. If I was given a speech like that by a boss (I don’t have one but if I did) I simply would have gotten up and left and found another job that would fulfill my financial requirements. For the simple reason that the job suddenly became way more of a hassle than I am willing to tolerate for the amount of what I need from it.
I only work for the simple reason that I need a certain amount of money not because I have some great aspiration to be the best at it.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Otis Rush wrote:
[quote]ukrainian wrote:
[quote]Otis Rush wrote:
So we should all strive to become corporate wage slaves that reduces all human interaction to: “what’s in it for me?”
He raises a few interesting points, but his #1 point has no purpose other than to reinforce his bias. [/quote]
I think you misunderstood the article. He was more so saying that we shouldn’t look to the world to make us feel special just because we are who we are. He also never said just go into the corporate world. Skimming doesn’t count as reading. [/quote]
I didn’t misunderstand anything. His central message boils down to: you need to offer value to people, and you need to be a person of action.
That as a standalone would be acceptable, but it’s mired in his own personal bullshit. What does the message of his favorite glengarry speech convey? That a person’s measure of worth is bound up in how much money they can earn for themselves and their employers. Wong goes on to say: “Your job-the useful thing you do for other people-is all you are.” Then finishes by saying it’s a mechanism of the universe, and nothing can be done about it. [/quote]
Please give us some examples of how you would add value to people’s lives that do not involve what you do for a living. Remember that you need to be able to finance these activities in some manner. [/quote]
Seriously?
I can be a shoulder to cry on when a friend breaks down because his daughter is hooked on heroin.
I can help a neighbor fix their car.
I can sit and talk to the elderly just because nobody else does.
Need more? There’s plenty out there if you care to look.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Ambugaton wrote:
I tried chasing my dreams and childish ambitions, those things my mother told me I could have if I tried hard enough. Maybe someday I can still have them, but I’m not going to pursue them working at the wages I earn now.
I agree with most of this article. At the same time, I wouldn’t trade an ounce of the suffering I’ve felt while being poor and hopeful for a pound of rich and complacent.
I’ll keep writing. Maybe you’ll see my stuff in a few years, and maybe not.
-Boogie. [/quote]
Don’t know who first said it but it’s a good quote and one I’ve found to be very true;
There are no unrealistic goals, just unrealistic time frames.
[/quote]
That’s a good quote.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Years ago I read a book about Native American “therapy” (for lack of a better word).
The essence of it was that we are all slightly too far in one direction or another, and that the whole point of “self improvement” was to move back towards whatever direction will give your life more balance.
I think that this article is great for those who need that message.
But not for everyone.
If it helps you, great.
If not, be happy that it may help others.[/quote]
The Four Agreements?
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Otis Rush wrote:
[quote]ukrainian wrote:
[quote]Otis Rush wrote:
So we should all strive to become corporate wage slaves that reduces all human interaction to: “what’s in it for me?”
He raises a few interesting points, but his #1 point has no purpose other than to reinforce his bias. [/quote]
I think you misunderstood the article. He was more so saying that we shouldn’t look to the world to make us feel special just because we are who we are. He also never said just go into the corporate world. Skimming doesn’t count as reading. [/quote]
I didn’t misunderstand anything. His central message boils down to: you need to offer value to people, and you need to be a person of action.
That as a standalone would be acceptable, but it’s mired in his own personal bullshit. What does the message of his favorite glengarry speech convey? That a person’s measure of worth is bound up in how much money they can earn for themselves and their employers. Wong goes on to say: “Your job-the useful thing you do for other people-is all you are.” Then finishes by saying it’s a mechanism of the universe, and nothing can be done about it. [/quote]
Please give us some examples of how you would add value to people’s lives that do not involve what you do for a living. Remember that you need to be able to finance these activities in some manner. [/quote]
Seriously?
I can be a shoulder to cry on when a friend breaks down because his daughter is hooked on heroin.
I can help a neighbor fix their car.
I can sit and talk to the elderly just because nobody else does.
Need more? There’s plenty out there if you care to look.
[/quote]
Talking about things that define you as a person. Sorry, looking at what I wrote that may not have been clear, I was referring to the poster above saying he doesn’t want to be defined by his job. But the thing is, as most people spend about half their waking lives at their jobs, if you have managed to find some other way that people tend to define you, then you are probably spending enough time on that thing that it actually ends up being what you “do.” Easy example would be Mother Theresa, or Ghandi. Sure, they didn’t get rich, but then, they were so engaged in what they were doing that they could not have done something else if they wanted to.
[quote]Typhoon wrote:
Yeah I hate whining people who sit around and complain that they can’t for whatever excuse get something they want but saying the measurement of your success is only monetary and your societal standing is absurd to me. I only want enough money to support the life style I WANT (which by most standards isn’t all that much), I couldn’t care less about my societal standing.
I want enough money and enough free time to do what I want with my life. Like I said the amount of money isn’t all that much and I will do the bare minimum to have it, I will not work longer hours or work harder for something I have no need for. If I was given a speech like that by a boss (I don’t have one but if I did) I simply would have gotten up and left and found another job that would fulfill my financial requirements. For the simple reason that the job suddenly became way more of a hassle than I am willing to tolerate for the amount of what I need from it.
I only work for the simple reason that I need a certain amount of money not because I have some great aspiration to be the best at it. [/quote]
Why not do something you enjoy, instead of making mediocrity your goal?
Unless this unfulfilled “what I want to do” is something productive or creative, it sounds like you just want to get away with doing as little as possible but don’t want to hear any criticism of this decision.
Just what is this lifestyle you want?
Pretty much the same thing
For some of us, our passion just doesn’t pay enough to be a viable career path. I had to choose between my passion and not being dead broke. Not being dead broke won; zookeeping pays for absolute shit, you don’t get holidays, etc. So after doing some intern work in the field I decided against it. I still keep and work with animals but even my day job (as weak as it is) pays substantially better so I can have a much better standard of living.
[quote]paulwhite959 wrote:
For some of us, our passion just doesn’t pay enough to be a viable career path. I had to choose between my passion and not being dead broke. Not being dead broke won; zookeeping pays for absolute shit, you don’t get holidays, etc. So after doing some intern work in the field I decided against it. I still keep and work with animals but even my day job (as weak as it is) pays substantially better so I can have a much better standard of living. [/quote]
When you say zookeeper, you mean the person who does the day to day jobs of cleaning, feeding and what-not?
Relevant.
Nice article.
[quote]paulwhite959 wrote:
For some of us, our passion just doesn’t pay enough to be a viable career path. I had to choose between my passion and not being dead broke. Not being dead broke won; zookeeping pays for absolute shit, you don’t get holidays, etc. So after doing some intern work in the field I decided against it. I still keep and work with animals but even my day job (as weak as it is) pays substantially better so I can have a much better standard of living. [/quote]
You are right. As a kid I always wanted to be a DNR officer. Until I found out what they make.
yep, I mean the people that do the day to day animal care. It’s amazing the requirements vs the pay; when I interned all of them had at least a bachelors, most of t hem had a masters in some hard science…and all had to have roomates or 2nd and 3rd jobs to make ends meet.
The people responsible for that are also responsible for designing exhibits (at least in herps, inverts, small mammals–I don’t know about birds or hoofstock) and you deal a lot with the public as well.
[quote]paulwhite959 wrote:
yep, I mean the people that do the day to day animal care. It’s amazing the requirements vs the pay; when I interned all of them had at least a bachelors, most of t hem had a masters in some hard science…and all had to have roomates or 2nd and 3rd jobs to make ends meet.
The people responsible for that are also responsible for designing exhibits (at least in herps, inverts, small mammals–I don’t know about birds or hoofstock) and you deal a lot with the public as well. [/quote]
If you are not responsible for the life or death of the animals and are not directly responsible for making sure people get to the zoo to spend their money to see them, then it makes sense that the pay is going to be less than fantastic. There’s nothing wrong with that but, and I’m only basing the following on the information you’ve given me so far, you are talking about a fairly easily replaceable job.
I’ll bet that “designing exhibits” means putting together something a group of marketing execs and animal specialists have created, and does not allow for a lot of creative freedom. And “dealing with the public” means, at the highest level, maybe hosting an animal show completely created and scripted by someone other than yourself. And I’ll wager what you actually mean is doing set presentations in front of small tour groups and maybe answering the odd question.
Just speaking honestly, this is not exactly a job that only a specialized, educated few could hope to handle. Most motivated college students and a few high school ones could probably be trusted with the responsibility (unless, like I said, you have more information regarding something I am not aware of).
You want to do the job you love AND make the money? You work your ass off being the best damned zoo-keeper that park has ever known. You do more work than you are paid for and you don’t make a show of it. You just do it with a smile. You offer help, and where you can, you offer ideas, but you are careful not to overstep your station or come off as too eager.
All this time, you pay attention. You eagerly undertake any job from shoveling elephant shit to cleaning out the monkey cages, because you want to know how every aspect of the business works. You see what works at the ground level, what customers like, what is tired, or inefficient, or necessary, what could be innovated or reworked.
After a time, when you have proven yourself to be too valuable to continue at your position, you move into the corporate side of things, and repeat the above process.
Eventually, you own your own damned zoo. And you can do all the zookeeping you want. On your time. Or not. On your own terms.
THAT is what these article are talking about.
And if you believe that you could never achieve that or something like it?
You’re right.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]paulwhite959 wrote:
yep, I mean the people that do the day to day animal care. It’s amazing the requirements vs the pay; when I interned all of them had at least a bachelors, most of t hem had a masters in some hard science…and all had to have roomates or 2nd and 3rd jobs to make ends meet.
The people responsible for that are also responsible for designing exhibits (at least in herps, inverts, small mammals–I don’t know about birds or hoofstock) and you deal a lot with the public as well. [/quote]
If you are not responsible for the life or death of the animals and are not directly responsible for making sure people get to the zoo to spend their money to see them, then it makes sense that the pay is going to be less than fantastic. There’s nothing wrong with that but, and I’m only basing the following on the information you’ve given me so far, you are talking about a fairly easily replaceable job.
I’ll bet that “designing exhibits” means putting together something a group of marketing execs and animal specialists have created, and does not allow for a lot of creative freedom. And “dealing with the public” means, at the highest level, maybe hosting an animal show completely created and scripted by someone other than yourself. And I’ll wager what you actually mean is doing set presentations in front of small tour groups and maybe answering the odd question.
Just speaking honestly, this is not exactly a job that only a specialized, educated few could hope to handle. Most motivated college students and a few high school ones could probably be trusted with the responsibility (unless, like I said, you have more information regarding something I am not aware of).
You want to do the job you love AND make the money? You work your ass off being the best damned zoo-keeper that park has ever known. You do more work than you are paid for and you don’t make a show of it. You just do it with a smile. You offer help, and where you can, you offer ideas, but you are careful not to overstep your station or come off as too eager.
All this time, you pay attention. You eagerly undertake any job from shoveling elephant shit to cleaning out the monkey cages, because you want to know how every aspect of the business works. You see what works at the ground level, what customers like, what is tired, or inefficient, or necessary, what could be innovated or reworked.
After a time, when you have proven yourself to be too valuable to continue at your position, you move into the corporate side of things, and repeat the above process.
Eventually, you own your own damned zoo. And you can do all the zookeeping you want. On your time. Or not. On your own terms.
THAT is what these article are talking about.
And if you believe that you could never achieve that or something like it?
You’re right. [/quote]
If they are low level jobs why do they require a college degree? I don’t know much of what the job entails, but I’m sure there is a fair amount of responsibility to it. Easy to say any trained Chimp can do it until you are the one who left the Lion cage open.
I didn’t say low level, I said low-specialization. I’m talking about a job for which there is both adequate demand and a level of technical expertise that cannot be quickly or easily acquired. I would further hazard a guess that if the job were really so daunting, then the market would reflect that value by appraising it with a competitive salary.
The poster did not say the requirements for his job included four years of specialized animal care. In fact, he did not really list the requirements in a manner that leads me to believe that they were actual requirements at all, other than perhaps a simple bachelor’s degree in science. He said he interned, meaning that much if not all hands on training would be acquired extra-curricularly.
He said that some guys DID have Master’s degrees in hard science. But if some do and some do not, that doesn’t exactly fit the definition of “requirement” that I am familiar with. I can’t help but assume the people he knew either could not find or could not get hired doing what they really wanted to do, or were not putting the degrees they’d worked so hard on to good use.
Once again, I want to be clear that I am not equating zookeepers to night shift assistant managers at McDonald’s. I am giving the OP an actual company owning, employee-hiring businessman’s perspective on how his job is probably being valued.
I’m willing to bet that if we play 20 questions and the OP is willing to be a sport and answer honestly that the reality of what he’s talking about will look a lot like what I’m talking about.
And if I’m wrong, well then I’ll still be right. Because he should just start his own zoo and get what’s coming to him.
*edited for clarity