6-OXO

Thanks for the completely random bump.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Well, during the cycle, neither 1-AD nor 4-AD converts to estrogen, and estrogen levels don’t rise during such cycles. So an anti-estrogen isn’t of value.

While in principle one might think that since 4-AD increases testosterone this might result in a concurrent increase in estrogen, in practice that is not so. I expect that is because of the weak antiaromatase activity of 4-AD that one would expect from its structure – so weak as to only keep estrogen levels essentially the same rather than decreasing them at all.

But in any case it’s just not an issue for a cycle such as your friend is doing: an anti-estrogen is called for only if aromatizing steroids are used, and that’s not the case here.

And after the cycle, again elevated estrogen is not an issue in this case. Further, just to discuss other situations, even if aromatizing steroids had been taken, there’s no evidence, as mentioned above, that 6-OXO can do anything to block elevated estrogen.

In terms of actually increasing production of testosterone post-cycle, Alpha Male is by far the better choice. [/quote]

Alpha Male may increase testosterone, but it really has nothing in it to prevent the aromatization into estradiol. If you increase your test levels without an aromatase inhibitor, it would be possible to become MORE estrogenic on this. This is rather contradictory to the name, “Alpha Male”. Am I wrong?

Yes

Very very interesting!

I’ve had a bottle of havoc sitting in my cupboard for a while now along with my originally planned PCT (6-oxo and TRIBEX)… however I have been terrified of using the stuff on account of every damn person screaming at me that Im a retard for not buying some nolva or another SERM for PCT.

You believe that perhaps one could get away with Alpha Male and no SERM as a PCT for a mid range 4 week havoc cycle?

EDIT: I realise that this is rapidly turning into a thread that should be in the steroids section however if this were there I would be blown out of the water with screams of NOLVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA by now.

[quote]benmoore wrote:

You believe that perhaps one could get away with Alpha Male and no SERM as a PCT for a mid range 4 week havoc cycle?[/quote]

Alpha Male is definetly not meant for PCT. A couple other companies make OTC PCTs for PH’s similar to Havoc. Dunno if I’m allowed to name them here, but do a little web find.

[quote]Invictica wrote:
benmoore wrote:

You believe that perhaps one could get away with Alpha Male and no SERM as a PCT for a mid range 4 week havoc cycle?

Alpha Male is definetly not meant for PCT. A couple other companies make OTC PCTs for PH’s similar to Havoc. Dunno if I’m allowed to name them here, but do a little web find.[/quote]

And those companies are lying if they say their OTC product is suitable for the restarting the HPTA after 4 weeks of steroid use. Havoc is not a pro-hormone, it is a designer steroid.

I would love to have Bill Roberts input on this.

A designer steroid is simply a modified fat soluble hormone if I remember correctly… does not necessarily make it anywhere near as potent/nasty as some prohormones.

Some things really are product specific.

Wasnt Alpha Male suggested as the PCT for MAG-10?

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Invictica wrote:
benmoore wrote:

You believe that perhaps one could get away with Alpha Male and no SERM as a PCT for a mid range 4 week havoc cycle?

Alpha Male is definetly not meant for PCT. A couple other companies make OTC PCTs for PH’s similar to Havoc. Dunno if I’m allowed to name them here, but do a little web find.

And those companies are lying if they say their OTC product is suitable for the restarting the HPTA after 4 weeks of steroid use. Havoc is not a pro-hormone, it is a designer steroid. [/quote]

Oh my bad :frowning:

I just know these OTC products were suitable for products like 3-AD and Bold. I was not aware Havoc was beyond the realms of these other supps.

Sorry for talking out of my ass.

[quote]benmoore wrote:
I would love to have Bill Roberts input on this.

A designer steroid is simply a modified fat soluble hormone if I remember correctly… does not necessarily make it anywhere near as potent/nasty as some prohormones.

Some things really are product specific.

Wasnt Alpha Male suggested as the PCT for MAG-10?[/quote]

I’m not speaking for BR but I think the term “designer steroid” is just used to separate the anabolic hormones that are produced by the big pharm companies and the anabolics that are produced to be sold as supplements or whatever, to get around the legal problems.

I’m not saying a designer steroid is not a “modified fat soluble hormone”, as I do not know, just commenting on the terminology. I could be very wrong though.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
benmoore wrote:
I would love to have Bill Roberts input on this.

A designer steroid is simply a modified fat soluble hormone if I remember correctly… does not necessarily make it anywhere near as potent/nasty as some prohormones.

Some things really are product specific.

Wasnt Alpha Male suggested as the PCT for MAG-10?

I’m not speaking for BR but I think the term “designer steroid” is just used to separate the anabolic hormones that are produced by the big pharm companies and the anabolics that are produced to be sold as supplements or whatever, to get around the legal problems.

I’m not saying a designer steroid is not a “modified fat soluble hormone”, as I do not know, just commenting on the terminology. I could be very wrong though. [/quote]

Fair play but its said to be fairly mild on the sides.

Do you know what the original PCT reccomended for MAG-10 was? Also why would this be inadequate for havoc?

[quote]Invictica wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Invictica wrote:
benmoore wrote:

You believe that perhaps one could get away with Alpha Male and no SERM as a PCT for a mid range 4 week havoc cycle?

Alpha Male is definetly not meant for PCT. A couple other companies make OTC PCTs for PH’s similar to Havoc. Dunno if I’m allowed to name them here, but do a little web find.

And those companies are lying if they say their OTC product is suitable for the restarting the HPTA after 4 weeks of steroid use. Havoc is not a pro-hormone, it is a designer steroid.

Oh my bad :frowning:

I just know these OTC products were suitable for products like 3-AD and Bold. I was not aware Havoc was beyond the realms of these other supps.

Sorry for talking out of my ass.[/quote]

No big deal. This isn’t the steroid forum so no flaming necessary LOL

BUT just for your information, in case you ever become interested… I would not count on OTC products to be effective when using any kind of legitimate PH.

A PH like BOLD, a precursor to the anabolic hormone Boldenone, will cause supression of the HPTA. OTC products are not comparable to SERM’s in terms of effectiveness.

So technically there is never a reason to use an OTC ‘pct’ product, for that specific purpose, because if you are using a product that causes HPTA suppression then the OTC product is useless and if you are not using a hormonal product then your HPTA would not be suppressed, making PCT unnecessary.

Just my opinion of course.

[quote]benmoore wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
benmoore wrote:
I would love to have Bill Roberts input on this.

A designer steroid is simply a modified fat soluble hormone if I remember correctly… does not necessarily make it anywhere near as potent/nasty as some prohormones.

Some things really are product specific.

Wasnt Alpha Male suggested as the PCT for MAG-10?

I’m not speaking for BR but I think the term “designer steroid” is just used to separate the anabolic hormones that are produced by the big pharm companies and the anabolics that are produced to be sold as supplements or whatever, to get around the legal problems.

I’m not saying a designer steroid is not a “modified fat soluble hormone”, as I do not know, just commenting on the terminology. I could be very wrong though.

Fair play but its said to be fairly mild on the sides.

Do you know what the original PCT reccomended for MAG-10 was? Also why would this be inadequate for havoc?
[/quote]

Havoc is certainly a mild steroid. The side effects (if any) are easily tolerated by most, but it still causes supression, which is why a SERM PCT is recommended.

I really don’t know much about MAG-10 at all. Sorry.

I really dont want to be ordering in nolva to my university mailbox even if I do live in the UK.

Yet I have havoc sitting on my shelf…

sighs

[quote]benmoore wrote:
I really dont want to be ordering in nolva to my university mailbox even if I do live in the UK.

Yet I have havoc sitting on my shelf…

sighs[/quote]

To be honest, that’s probably safer than ordering it to your house. I thought it was legal to import stuff like that for personal use into the UK. Are you ordering from an online pharmacy or a research chem site?

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
benmoore wrote:
I really dont want to be ordering in nolva to my university mailbox even if I do live in the UK.

Yet I have havoc sitting on my shelf…

sighs

To be honest, that’s probably safer than ordering it to your house. I thought it was legal to import stuff like that for personal use into the UK. Are you ordering from an online pharmacy or a research chem site? [/quote]

Truth be told I haven’t picked a source yet on account of some very shady looking sites… and the concern of having some mystery useless/dangerous pill in another packaging. We can talk sources in PM I guess.

Fact is that its still a controlled drug (prescription only medicine) and thus could wind up me being in trouble if im found in possession of it… even if its supposably legal to order :s