52 Y/O Chronic Pain Medication Usage

Pharma TRT
21

KSMan, THANK YOU, for taking the time to comment on my case thread here, and the question about HcG ammunition for Docs. I noticed that you linked that thread to the “Advice for New Guys Sticky” as well. That’s awesome!

According to your comments here:

[quote]KSman wrote:

There are alternatives. One can take a SERM and the top end of the HPTA can be expected in many cases to create LH/FSH that can resolve TRT induced HPTA shutdown. However, these are drugs.

[/quote]

And from a different thread:

[quote]KSman wrote:

Yes, SERM’s can work. However, those chemicals are foreign to your body. hCG is not normally found in men, but all men were soaked in high levels of hCG in the womb for a few months. hCG and LH have two lobes. In each, the lobe that works in the LH receptor is identical. So in that regard, one can state that hCG is functionally bio-identical to LH. You cannot say that about a SERM. Perhaps long term low dose SERM’s would be a good choice - there simply is not any good data.

Taking a pill every day or two is certainly more attractive than an refrigerated injectable that also does not travel well. From a fertility point of view, the FSH levels from a SERM are important. One might cycle from hCG–>SERM periodically to preserver fertility in a better fashion. Something more of interest to the young men here.

[/quote]

If I get shot down on Hcg when I see the Doc, I am going to consider taking the leftover Clomid that I have when I tried the monotherapy trial 8 months ago. I have enough of that to take 12.5mg EOD for 4 months. In the meantime, I can see if I can find another doctor that willing to use the T/AI/HcG protocol.

Will I likely have to frontload the Clomid to this to restart the boys? I remember starting at 50 mg per day for a few days, then, tapering to 25, for quite a while, the again reducing to 12ED, and eventually ending up at 12.5 EOD. I sure don’t want to pick any of the nasty sides. If this will (sort of) do the same as Hcg, even if it’s just temporary, then I don’t have to waste any (expensive) medication.

I’m going to keep this thread active for a while, as I’m going to be changing some things after I see the Doc. One is switching to E3D injections. And the clomid, if the Doc won’t go with HcG. I know that I’ll have quite a drive (60 miles) to get labs on my own.

Again, thanks for the help.

22

T+AI+hCG reads better ;}

I don’t see the point on that much or any front load. If you drive a lot of LH, the testes are not ready to make that much use of that as there are changes that are going to take time. I see a lot of that ‘more is better’ from the BB bro-science folks. A front load might spike E2 levels.

You are into a 4 month evaluation. You are supplementing TRT and not needing to push your testes towards a lot of T production that simply might not happen in any case.

23

New labs results from blood drawn on 8-1:

TT 953 (240-950)
FT 26 (9-30)
E2 24 (5.4-65.9)
SHBG 48 (10-60)
QOL 8/9 (1-10)

I also had prolactin checked, I was having trouble finishing during intercourse (that’s not new to TRT but seemed to have gotten worse), I had a hunch that it had creeped up a bit. That was:

Prolactin: 17.7 (3.7-17.9)

I also pitched HcG pretty hard and aggressively to the Doc. While still hesitant, he agreed to talk to his colleague, who he said has more ‘complicated’ cases and see what he/she thinks. He doesn’t think that TRT protocol involves 3 separate medications, I explained to him that it is very common and current to what is working for most men. On a side note, I thought that him calling me a complicated case was laughable, I think it looks textbook according to what I read here.

Doc said I should call him in 2 weeks about the HcG, he was going on vacation. In the meantime, I switched from E7D, to E3D, or every 3.5 days, in divided dosages. And started clomid at 12.5 EOD. Hopefully, in another week when I call him, he will give me the okay and a script for HcG. Regardless, I am going to hold off coming clean to him about injecting E3D for a bit, don’t want to rock the boat just yet. Eventually he needs to know, respectfully, that he is not keeping current on TRT treatments.

Regarding the high Prolactin and having some trouble ejaculating during intercourse, the research that I have done is there are a few things that may work. I guess the theory is decreasing prolactin increases dopamine? The most aggressive is way to do this is with cabergoline, but I’m thinking that is like taking a gun to a knife fight.

Other OTC non prescription meds that make it easier to get to the finish line are P5P, the active ingredient of B-6. Or selegiline, which I don’t know much about. Or Yohimbine HCL, which has some side effects like increased Blood Pressure and increased heart rates.

Has anyone else reading this have a problem of delayed ejaculation (DE)? And the million dollar question is, who has solved the issue? Or made is better (quicker)? I’ve done quite a bit of reading on the subject, there is not a magic pill. I’d start a new thread, but it’s been talked about here without any definite answers (that I remember)

24

Some Updates…I remembered what I didn’t like about clomid and switched from E3D to E7D, 12.5mg. All I was wanting to do was keep the boys from the common atrophy symptoms, and that dosage (for me), did the job. I wish that I didn’t have so much left over, it’s a terrible waste of money and medication. But I regress…

The Doc finally agreed to a script of HcG, I finally received that a few days ago. I was really a struggle, but persistence, documented information and patience won the battle for me/him. He prescribed 500 IU, twice a week, but I will be following the protocol here of 250IU EOD.

I remember reading someone here saying that their balls dropped overnight after injecting, well not exactly for me, but close. They’re back to normal, or lower. And the nagging pain is starting to go away, so good news on both symptoms. Funny thing about them hanging so high, even my GP commented on that during a physical. I don’t remember them always being that way, but I suspect that HPTA was suspect since the low T symptoms started and ‘high hangers’ may have been an additional symptom? Or am I way off base here? I remember reading here that testicles hanging high and close to the body was being deficient of something, I just can’t seem to find the comment any more.

I’m going in for blood work in a month, I am hoping that my Pregnenolone and DHEA levels are going to rebound with the addition of HcG. In theory, they should. I certainly feel better on HcG.

I’ll post labs when I get them.

25

New labs on 11-6.

A refresher to my protocol:
80MG T injected twice a week. (E3.5D)
250 IU Hcg EOD
No Al

TT: 897 (240-950)
FT 26 (9-30)
E2 20 (5.4-65.9)
SHBG 46 (10-60)
Prolactin 15.9 (3.7-17.9)
Pregnenolone 43 (33-248)
17-Preg 65 (55-455)
DHEA 64 (35-179)

The test and E2 (without an Al) look great.

Preg and DHEA are still low. I was hoping that they would be better with the addition of Hcg. Should I be supplementing with DHEA and Preg? I’m going to ask the Doc that as well, but I’d sure like to hear from the experts here as well. Honestly, this forum trumps what he says anyway. :slight_smile:

And that stupid prolactin is still high…I’d really like to get a handle on that. It’s interfering with my sexual function with DE. (delayed ejaculation). Or at least I think that’s (part of) the culprit. This is not a new to TRT thing though…I ready to try Dostinex, I can get some online. My primary doc would probably script a trial as well. Any advice on that aspect.

I started SubQ this morning, I’m going with EOD (24MG), along with the Hcg (250IU). I haven’t ‘broke’ the news to the Test Doc that I was even doing E3.5D yet, but I am going to this week. I’ve have a years worth of test and 6 months of Hcg stockpiled, if he’s going to dump me as a client for not following his protocol (E7D), then that will give me time to shop for a different test Doc. He needs to know that everything in the ‘STICKIES’ is accurate, at least with me.

I’d appreciate anyone that could comment on the prolactin, DHEA and Preg issue. I’d rather not start a new thread, but I know my current case study is rather boring, so I’m sure it’s not getting a lot of traffic.