[quote]Christine wrote:
Standard Donkey wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Standard Donkey wrote:
well they have to have some excuse for their repulsive behavior “we were born that way” seems to have done the trick thus far.
What exactly makes their behavior repulsive in the general sense? As in, what makes it repulsive to us all, not just to you?
Wait, has the thought of a man having sex with another man all of a sudden become tasteful?
my God have I gone mad?
I don’t find it especially un-tasty.
[/quote]
You probably also do not needlessly and excessively fantasize about it.
[quote]orion wrote:
Christine wrote:
Standard Donkey wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Standard Donkey wrote:
well they have to have some excuse for their repulsive behavior “we were born that way” seems to have done the trick thus far.
What exactly makes their behavior repulsive in the general sense? As in, what makes it repulsive to us all, not just to you?
Wait, has the thought of a man having sex with another man all of a sudden become tasteful?
my God have I gone mad?
I don’t find it especially un-tasty.
You probably also do not needlessly and excessively fantasize about it.
Nobody is oppressing gays, nobody is preventing them from life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness. Nobody is denying them the right to love and live with whomever they choose.
[/quote]
but if you are denying a person the right to marry whomever they choose are you not infact telling them what they can and can not do?
meaning you are infringing on that persons liberty?
by telling them they are wrong for making the choice to marry who they want are you not making their lifestyle “taboo” and making them hide their lifestyle meaning there life is being denied.
and then because they have to hide their life style choices and live in fear of ridicule for living a taboo life causing undo stress onto their life you are infringing upon the pursuit of happiness.
personally I am not gay I have no intentions of choosing to be gay and i was not born gay.
I could never really understand their whole side here.
but I do know a person can do whatever they want to do in life as long as they are not victimizing anyone else and they should be able to do that without anyone else casting judgment making their choices harder.
alot of people who are against gay marriage,talk out both sides of their mouths.
on one hand they say “you can do whatever you want to do,love who you want,whatever” but in the same breath they say “its so wrong and nasty shame on you”
make up your minds here.
[quote]orion wrote:
Standard Donkey wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Standard Donkey wrote:
well they have to have some excuse for their repulsive behavior “we were born that way” seems to have done the trick thus far.
What exactly makes their behavior repulsive in the general sense? As in, what makes it repulsive to us all, not just to you?
Wait, has the thought of a man having sex with another man all of a sudden become tasteful?
my God have I gone mad?
Well, if you happen to think about it a lot you are probably gay.
[/quote]
Seriously? I would have expected something a little more clever and well thought out from you.
Nobody is oppressing gays, nobody is preventing them from life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness. Nobody is denying them the right to love and live with whomever they choose.
but if you are denying a person the right to marry whomever they choose are you not infact telling them what they can and can not do?
meaning you are infringing on that persons liberty?
by telling them they are wrong for making the choice to marry who they want are you not making their lifestyle “taboo” and making them hide their lifestyle meaning there life is being denied.
and then because they have to hide their life style choices and live in fear of ridicule for living a taboo life causing undo stress onto their life you are infringing upon the pursuit of happiness.
personally I am not gay I have no intentions of choosing to be gay and i was not born gay.
I could never really understand their whole side here.
but I do know a person can do whatever they want to do in life as long as they are not victimizing anyone else and they should be able to do that without anyone else casting judgment making their choices harder.
alot of people who are against gay marriage,talk out both sides of their mouths.
on one hand they say “you can do whatever you want to do,love who you want,whatever” but in the same breath they say “its so wrong and nasty shame on you”
make up your minds here.
[/quote]
Honestly, I would not be all that opposed to gay “marriage” if I knew for a fact that that was where it was going to end.
I have a distinct feeling that we are going to see a lot of legal difficulties arise from this subject.
Nobody is oppressing gays, nobody is preventing them from life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness. Nobody is denying them the right to love and live with whomever they choose.
but if you are denying a person the right to marry whomever they choose are you not infact telling them what they can and can not do?
meaning you are infringing on that persons liberty?
by telling them they are wrong for making the choice to marry who they want are you not making their lifestyle “taboo” and making them hide their lifestyle meaning there life is being denied.
and then because they have to hide their life style choices and live in fear of ridicule for living a taboo life causing undo stress onto their life you are infringing upon the pursuit of happiness.[/quote]
Gumby would be proud of that stretch.
The only thing being “denied” gays is the right to file some government paperwork. They can hold a ceremony, buy a home together, live together, die together, with whomever they choose. Nobody is oppressing them. They can do all of this openly, without fear of law enforcement breaking it up.
From a social aspect, the whole idea of society pressuring them into the “closet” is a complete fabrication. Openly gay people are not being lynched. Openly gay people are not being denied entry into “straight-only” establishments. Openly gay people are not being denied career or educational opportunities. Even where I live, which is about as “Red” a place as there is in America, there isn’t some burdensome, oppressive social stigma towards openly gay people.
The comparison of the “plight” of gays in this country in 2009 to the civil rights movement in the '60’s is one made by self-righteous, wanna-be martyrs who are too emotionally involved to look critically at the situation.
The reason that this should be a wholly voted-upon issue is that people, whether straight or gay, do not have a Constitutional right to marry. The people have voted, and “traditional” marriage has won, to my knowledge, every single time it’s been on the ballot in every single state it’s been on the ballot.
So leave it at that. Having an activist government that runs contrary to the will of the people rarely ends well for the people being governed.
If that’s intended to be a thinly veiled jab in my direction, then aim elsewhere. I personally don’t give a hoot whether or not gay marriage is approved by society.
The issue that concerns me is that a small, loud minority are getting their way over the will of the majority on an issue in which no rights are being violated and nobody is being unjustly oppressed.
In any event, I’m finished discussing gay marriage. It’s such a complete time-wasting non-issue compared to everything else that’s on our plate.
[quote]Standard Donkey wrote:
orion wrote:
Standard Donkey wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Standard Donkey wrote:
well they have to have some excuse for their repulsive behavior “we were born that way” seems to have done the trick thus far.
What exactly makes their behavior repulsive in the general sense? As in, what makes it repulsive to us all, not just to you?
Wait, has the thought of a man having sex with another man all of a sudden become tasteful?
my God have I gone mad?
Well, if you happen to think about it a lot you are probably gay.
Seriously? I would have expected something a little more clever and well thought out from you.
[/quote]
I was not trying to be clever.
If I though constantly about two men having sex I was probably gay too.
Alas, I don´t.
Because I really, truly, cross my heart, do not care.
Not at all.
In fact it is amazing how rarely I think about male on male intercourse.
[quote]Beowolf wrote:
I have nothing against gay people. Really, I don’t. But I could care less if they were “born that way” or not. They still CHOOSE to have gay sex. There is NOTHING wrong with that, in my opinion. But it is still a choice. They have free will. Stop pretending like people are doomed to be something at birth.[/quote]
I agree, to some extent. People can choose their behavior, but they can’t choose their sexual orientation. There is an important difference between the two.
A gay man can choose not to have sex with another man, but he can’t choose who he finds attractive.
You can choose to be celibate, but you are still denied the choice of spending your life with the person you love.
Nobody is oppressing gays, nobody is preventing them from life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness. Nobody is denying them the right to love and live with whomever they choose.
but if you are denying a person the right to marry whomever they choose are you not infact telling them what they can and can not do?
meaning you are infringing on that persons liberty?
by telling them they are wrong for making the choice to marry who they want are you not making their lifestyle “taboo” and making them hide their lifestyle meaning there life is being denied.
and then because they have to hide their life style choices and live in fear of ridicule for living a taboo life causing undo stress onto their life you are infringing upon the pursuit of happiness.
personally I am not gay I have no intentions of choosing to be gay and i was not born gay.
I could never really understand their whole side here.
but I do know a person can do whatever they want to do in life as long as they are not victimizing anyone else and they should be able to do that without anyone else casting judgment making their choices harder.
alot of people who are against gay marriage,talk out both sides of their mouths.
on one hand they say “you can do whatever you want to do,love who you want,whatever” but in the same breath they say “its so wrong and nasty shame on you”
make up your minds here.
Honestly, I would not be all that opposed to gay “marriage” if I knew for a fact that that was where it was going to end.
I have a distinct feeling that we are going to see a lot of legal difficulties arise from this subject.
[/quote]
I agree.
Let´s get govermnment out of the marriage business altogether so when someone wants to marry his lampshade at the Church of Elvis (Shaboom)so let him and may the King be with him.
[quote]tGunslinger wrote:
Gays want the government, and society, by proxy, to accept their lifestyle. Period. That’s what this movement is about.[/quote]
With all the discussion on this topic, it blows me away that some people are still this ignorant.
As a gay man, I couldn’t care less whether or not you approve of my relationship. I do care about issues like child custody, hospital visitation rights, social security inheritance, immigration rights, and the 1,000 other privileges associated with federal marriage that are currently denied to gay couples.
I think it is a sad commentary on the decline of values in this country. I quite understand that some people have no problem with this or with homosexuality in general - great for them - but I think it is sad that we are losing our traditional values and I don’t think we will be recovering them anytime soon.
Some people love this “progress”, I see nothing positive in it and nothing that will add to what was once a great culture.
Being American doesn’t mean anything anymore - it is now just a confab of people with hugely divergent values (this will lead to violence which will lead to oppression) - gone is the Christian nation I was born into- now we have a new socialism that will end in totalitarianism with everyone cheering the loss of our freedoms and privileges- yeah for us!
Welcome to the new singularity and uni-culturalism (political correctness) - enjoy it while it lasts . . .
[quote]Standard Donkey wrote:
Honestly, I would not be all that opposed to gay “marriage” if I knew for a fact that that was where it was going to end.
I have a distinct feeling that we are going to see a lot of legal difficulties arise from this subject.
[/quote]
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
I think it is a sad commentary on the decline of values in this country. I quite understand that some people have no problem with this or with homosexuality in general - great for them - but I think it is sad that we are losing our traditional values and I don’t think we will be recovering them anytime soon.[/quote]
For someone committed to a personal search for truth with no boundaries, I’m surprised you are so rigid in your definition of “traditional values” that you can’t recognize the possibility of social progress and enlightenment.
Under “traditional values” 100 years ago, women and blacks were second class citizens at best.
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
I think it is a sad commentary on the decline of values in this country. I quite understand that some people have no problem with this or with homosexuality in general - great for them - but I think it is sad that we are losing our traditional values and I don’t think we will be recovering them anytime soon.
Some people love this “progress”, I see nothing positive in it and nothing that will add to what was once a great culture.
Being American doesn’t mean anything anymore - it is now just a confab of people with hugely divergent values (this will lead to violence which will lead to oppression) - gone is the Christian nation I was born into- now we have a new socialism that will end in totalitarianism with everyone cheering the loss of our freedoms and privileges- yeah for us!
Welcome to the new singularity and uni-culturalism (political correctness) - enjoy it while it lasts . . .
[/quote]
That was so incoherent.
So are you decrying the increasing diversity or the new uni-culturalism?
People are getting more and more polarized (divergent values) - while a singular cultural identity (political correctness) is being forced upon us all - soon the shell (PC) will not be able to contain the pressure (DV) which will result in violence - violence will result in more oppression from our new socialist masters - we once had a common set of values in America - i just don’t see that as the case any longer . . .
The issue that concerns me is that a small, loud minority are getting their way over the will of the majority on an issue in which no rights are being violated and nobody is being unjustly oppressed.
In any event, I’m finished discussing gay marriage. It’s such a complete time-wasting non-issue compared to everything else that’s on our plate. [/quote]
honestly, even though its obvious we do not see eye to eye on the gay marriage thing,I think they are being opressed ,true, its not to the degree of other groups,
there have been many gay deaths and theres several gay beatings. there are plenty of hate crimes against the gay population all over the US but really thats besides the point here.
what you mentioned here is the real issue that the united states faces.
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
People are getting more and more polarized (divergent values) - while a singular cultural identity (political correctness) is being forced upon us all - soon the shell (PC) will not be able to contain the pressure (DV) which will result in violence - violence will result in more oppression from our new socialist masters - we once had a common set of values in America - i just don’t see that as the case any longer . . .[/quote]
We did? Was that back when when the word “negro” was in vogue?
[quote]forlife wrote:
tGunslinger wrote:
Gays want the government, and society, by proxy, to accept their lifestyle. Period. That’s what this movement is about.
With all the discussion on this topic, it blows me away that some people are still this ignorant.
As a gay man, I couldn’t care less whether or not you approve of my relationship. I do care about issues like child custody, hospital visitation rights, social security inheritance, immigration rights, and the 1,000 other privileges associated with federal marriage that are currently denied to gay couples.[/quote]
If those are the issues you’re interested in, fine. I don’t claim to have any idea what issues motivate you specifically.
But if the “gay movement” as a whole were interested in those subjects, and only those subjects, they would not be trying to go about getting them through altering marriage. Trying to alter marriage for the sole purpose of addressing the issues you listed is perhaps the most difficult, thorniest way of going about it imaginable.
If the entire movement was aimed solely at child custody, hospital rights, etc. etc., they could’ve aimed at those issues directly and won a relatively quick, easy victory. I doubt many people would’ve even noticed if some legislation loosening those regulations was passed.
Instead, they went after the pillar and capstone of traditional American social organization. And they sure as shit didn’t aim at that just for child custody and hospital visitation.
Why did the “gay movement” choose to do it the hard way? Because they want inclusion to the primary social construct of our nation, and they wouldn’t have gotten it if they had just tried to loosen regulations on the issues you listed.
