TRT doses shutdown LH/FSH in young and old males. More T is still shutdown.
A few guys here report that they do not get testicular shrinkage. You find that hard to accept. I am the only person that gets involved in almost all threads here. So you have to accept that I have that viewpoint. My viewpoint on this is not shaped much by BB guys doing gear because they are mostly off of gear in 10 weeks and recovering if their PCT is not bogus [rare].
Thanks KSman appreciate your honest opinion. I still owe you temps for thyroid analysis. I have been meaning to order an oral thermometer but keep getting side tracked, all I have is the in ear we use on the kids.
KSman,
Are you aware of the studies that seem to show that LH is not significantly suppressed in men on TRT doses, who have primary hypgonadism?
I would be very doubtful about that. For that to occur, there would need to be an operational defect in the hypothalamus and pituitary signaling. If you ever see that again, link me there. The KSman is Here thread is always an option.
On TRT since 4/11/17
TT - 630 (198-679 ng/dl) was at 284 when I started
FT - 17 (6.8-21.5 pg/ml)
Estrogens total - 63 (40-115 pg/ml)
Estradiol - <20 (20-53 pg/ml)
Prolactin [optional and almost never on-going] - Didnt see this on the lab results
DHT [should be checked, but perhaps not on-going] - Didnt see this on the lab results- is this Dihydrotestosterone if so its at 57 ng/dl
PSA Total - .37 (<4.00 ng/ml)
PSA Free - .19
WBC Count - 6.3 (4.4-9.2)
RBC Count - 4.58 (3.83-5.57)
Magnesium - 2.0 (1.6-2.7 mg/dl)
All I am currently taking is 50mg every 3.5 days
Do my levels look good?
Did you miss any T doses?
Labs halfway between injections?
Wrong E2 lab coded, need one that resolves lower E2 levels typical of TRT and males in general.
TT could be better, could FT. If no T dosing errors, see if you can get 75mg twice a week.
How are you feeling? Energy, socialization, mood, libido, appetite?
If you are hungry and snacks do not help, you probably need more protein. If whey shakes then work, you know exactly.
Thanks for the quick response
I do my injection on Tuesday night and Saturday morning and have never missed a dose.
Had blood test on a Friday evening.
With the exception of morning erections I still feel like shit, very low libido, mental fog, etcâŠ
I have enough to raise dosage.
What estrogen levels do I ask him to test for next time I get labs done(2 months).
Doc needs to look at different E2 labs available, names are variable, might be ultra-sensitive or such. Some E2 labs are for female work where low numbers are not encountered except for deep menopause and then is really low, no interest in how low. Know the lab company name? Do your own research.
Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the bodyâs temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.
Your T dose should be increased. But that does not explain feeling like shit. I pointed out problems with your thyroid. I canât see that you have done those body temperature measurements, they can be more informative than the labs.
Iâve been on TRT for sixteen years with three of them being on HCG at high doses, right now at 3000 IU per week. T is taken for 100 mg per week. HCG at this dose increased my sperm count sevenfold last time it was checked and we are expecting our first kid this coming August, with two miscarriages in the past.
My testicles much at all; I donât know if there is an increase and if there has been an increase in volume itâs discernible to the eye and touch. HCG does not increase testicular size for all, nor does hypogonadism cause significant testicular atrophy in all people, like youâve said.
If youâre not concerned with fertility, itâs not necessary, though I do feel better on HCG along with TRT.
I would watch the use of the word expert, though KSman knows some stuff. However, none on here are competent urologists or endocrinologists. My own doc is a surgeon and was chairman of urology at a Long Island hospital and has several published studies, available for viewing on Pub Med. Iâd call him an expert.
I never did take my temps, I really need to pick up an oral thermometer.
Lab is called accurate diagnostic labs.
You think the 630 level of TT is low even with the range they provide of 189-679, seems I would be on the upper end unless I am interpreting that wrong.
Thanks again
@ThickHead
You really need to stop spreading your misinformation filled self-experiences around this forum. Your entire post is littered with Iâs and myâsâŠ
Itâs entirely fine if you want to place all of your trust in a doctor but other people have had enough bad medical experiences and done enough in their lives not to care about intellectual authority because we can think for ourselves.
âIf youâre not concerned with fertility, itâs not necessary, though I do feel better on HCG along with TRT.â
Spermatogenesis and testosterone production are not the only functions of the testes. The testes are also involved in the production of pregnenolone - the master hormone in the hormonal cascade. Pregnenolone is also a neurosteroid that plays a significant role in neurological function.
This is not a trivial matter regardless of who can get away with it. Lack of hCG use is inviting testicular failure and subsequent pregnenolone deficiency independent of whether or not you have âshrinkageâ.
cholesterol â pregnenolone â the rest of the hormone cascade
By default pregnenolone deficiency is analogous to low cholesterol which is directly associated with all cause mortality.
Find info on E2 - estradiol, those labs are useless.
They only show:
ESTRADIOL
TEST CODE 02275
CPT 82670
SPECIMEN REQUIREMENT Serum Separator Tube
SPECIMEN TYPE Serum
STORAGE TYPE Refrigerated
TEST INCLUDES null
NOTES null
Find a different lab company. Labcorp or Quest, then select from the multiple E2 labs available. Sensitive for Labcorp or Ultra sensitive for Quest [I thinkâŠ]. Your doc does not understand or does not care.
Would you recommend I follow up with an Endocrinologist or a Urologist, to discuss blood test results and evaluate my treatment.
To the OP,
Just went to the TRT doctor for my normal appointment, and I asked him about testicle shrinkage. He told me that about 20% of his male patients have a problem with testicle shrinkage. Thatâs one out of five. In his experience, testicle shrinkage is not the norm. He did tell me that men who begin TRT when they donât need to(test levels are normal), and those on âbodybuildingâ doses of testosterone, tend to have problems with shrinkage. This is a guy who deals with this stuff on a daily basis.
He also added, that itâs a hassle going on hcg, so why do it unless itâs necessary.
He is misleading you and himself. Any effective TRT dose shuts down LH/FSH in 24-48 hours. Doctors make things up and believe things that are clearly bogus.
Increase T 100mgâ>150mg
Now youâre calling my doctor a liar because he doesnât agree with you?
Thatâs a really great way to argue against someone who disagrees with you. Donât counter with a valid argument, just call him a liar.
OP,
Iâve been on an effective TRT dose for 4 years. My balls havenât shrunk noticeably. And there are others whose balls donât shrink either. Iâm trying to help you make an informed decision, however unpopular it may be. Try to find studies for the effects of
long-term hcg use with TRT. If you are confident itâs safe to take, possibly for the rest of your life, and you need it, then go for it. But if youâre in the same position that I am in, and 80% of the men on TRT at my doctorâs office, then donât take hcg.
Please make an informed decision.
What I stated is supported by findings in published clinical research. No argument.
While some men do not experience testicular shrinkage, most do. And there is no evidence that those who do not have shrinkage has lot lost LH/FSH. Loss of LH/FSH does create risks if loss of fertility.
We have a thread âstupid things that doctors do and sayâ, go read it.
