[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[/quote]
How can the world go on with your lack of gentleness and reverence?
[quote]goldengloves wrote:
People can also overcome alcoholism and drug abuse without religious beliefs if there’s a desire to no longer be a substance abuser and a program to assist their recovery. Them having the beliefs doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re solely responsible either, being an alcoholic can have a broader impact on someone’s life than simply going against their faith.
[/quote]
Did you know the one thing that is pointed to for the success of AA is that there is a higher being than you. I mean there is different things in AA that make it successful, but that is number uno.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]HyperUppercut wrote:
[quote]saveski wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I refuse to give up on you Chris. (or you either Pat) St. Thomas has left you guys naked and bleeding in a den of lions. You give them home advantage every time you do this.[/quote]
OK - please make me BELIEVE. I earnestly want to believe in God. YOU are going to heaven. I am not. Most of my good friends are believers and I wish to be enlightened also.
If you have the truth, please enlighten me as I want to know the truth. I don’t care to be ignorant. I want to see all my friends in heaven when I die.
But my rational brain (the one that God gave me) refuses to accept mysticism.
So, help me out.
[/quote]
No one can make you believe except an intervention from the Holy Spirit himself. This is something many atheist/agnostic/confused…etc people misconceive because they simply do not take time to even read the Bible.[/quote]
You are right about one thing: reading the bible removes all confusion. Because it affirms so much that is undoubtedly known to not be. Because each of its worthless pages is more anachronistic and primitive than those before it. Because each fantastical story is more mind-numbingly ridiculous than the last. Because, as adult human beings with extensive access to information and the inborn ability to reason, we are expected to understand that ghosts, goblins, the tooth fairy, and talking snakes do not and have not ever existed save for in the minds of children and lunatics.
How could a smart human being be confused about it after all that? How can he or she do anything but laugh and wonder at the fact that millions of poor gullible needy simpletons give their hearts, their paychecks, and even their lives to these boisterous iniquitous clowns that we call the Abrahamic religions? How can anyone be confused when on one hand a scientist stands at the ready with mountains of empirical evidence and on the other an army of liver-spotted igors in dresses and medieval hats gather around an ancient book of fairy tales and pray to an eternally-silent invisible patron for guidance?[/quote]
1 v. a 1000, eh?
[quote]HyperUppercut wrote:
- The guys in dresses and all of that make up, I guess you are referring to the catholic priests. Most of them draw attention to themselves, and I don’t agree with alot of the dogma of the catholics. As most of what they practice isn’t even in the Bible. I also find it sad that Catholicism is the face of Christianity to most of the world.[/quoter]
Where do the Bible come from?
[quote]HyperUppercut wrote:
You are absolutely correct, you were created by God. But you are an enemy of God because of sin. As as for putting faith in Scientists or God. I’d rather put my faith in a God who doesn’t change. Rather than a scientist who screws up, but makes the sheep think their screw ups are progress. and go ahead and strike up a convo with a crocodile if you want. You’ll be finding out if God is real or not sooner thank you think.[/quote]
If you’re going to be fucking rude to my friends, please leave the thread. I don’t need hostility when trying to have a logical argument. If you can’t hold your water, maybe you need to go study up on civil discourse.
[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
This is the pic of the area mentioned in the article.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Neurorobotics reveals brain mechanisms of self-consciousness
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-04/cp-nrb042511.php[/quote]
[/quote]
Thanks! It looks innocuous enough, doesn’t it? Now the saying, “the voice in the back of your head” has new meaning (:
[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
I think it was Pat who called this a mind vs body question. If you believe that we were created by something(God) then it makes sense that language, the self, and the conscious would also need to just appear.
If, however, you believe that we have evolved then all these things(language, the self, the conscious) are as a result of the brain, throat, vocal chords, tongue, etc evolving.[/quote]
Yes, I am close to a Theistic Evolutionary as they call them. However, this does not explain these three things. They are non-material, involving non-material functions, and in a purely atheist evolutionary point of view, they cannot exist as they are non-material. None of these have been found to be materialized in any fashion.
I have no problem with the Big Bang theory and Evolution, I actually quite enjoy reading on both subjects.
[quote]
To other animals our language is nothing but noise. Wild cats do not meow like domesticated cats, some vets say they are just imitating us, making a bunch of noise.[/quote]
I’m sure, they do not understand, also a characteristic that has no materialness. However, when I say language I am referring to Syntax languages.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
This is the pic of the area mentioned in the article.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Neurorobotics reveals brain mechanisms of self-consciousness
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-04/cp-nrb042511.php[/quote]
[/quote]
Thanks! It looks innocuous enough, doesn’t it? Now the saying, “the voice in the back of your head” has new meaning (: [/quote]
I always thought the voice in the back of your mind was reference to one’s conscience, and not conscious, or am I mistaken?
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
This is the pic of the area mentioned in the article.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Neurorobotics reveals brain mechanisms of self-consciousness
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-04/cp-nrb042511.php[/quote]
[/quote]
Thanks! It looks innocuous enough, doesn’t it? Now the saying, “the voice in the back of your head” has new meaning (: [/quote]
I always thought the voice in the back of your mind was reference to one’s conscience, and not conscious, or am I mistaken?[/quote]
I don’t know, to me it’s all the same thing, or from the same thing: the brain.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
I think it was Pat who called this a mind vs body question. If you believe that we were created by something(God) then it makes sense that language, the self, and the conscious would also need to just appear.
If, however, you believe that we have evolved then all these things(language, the self, the conscious) are as a result of the brain, throat, vocal chords, tongue, etc evolving.[/quote]
Yes, I am close to a Theistic Evolutionary as they call them. However, this does not explain these three things. They are non-material, involving non-material functions, and in a purely atheist evolutionary point of view, they cannot exist as they are non-material. None of these have been found to be materialized in any fashion.
I have no problem with the Big Bang theory and Evolution, I actually quite enjoy reading on both subjects.
[quote]
To other animals our language is nothing but noise. Wild cats do not meow like domesticated cats, some vets say they are just imitating us, making a bunch of noise.[/quote]
I’m sure, they do not understand, also a characteristic that has no materialness. However, when I say language I am referring to Syntax languages.[/quote]
Aren’t the brain waves that are created when you use your brain to talk/think/be aware of “material”?
Syntax? The rules for constructing sentences? Language is just a means of communication, and language has changed over time, so have the rules. I think I’m not getting what you mean.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
This is the pic of the area mentioned in the article.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Neurorobotics reveals brain mechanisms of self-consciousness
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-04/cp-nrb042511.php[/quote]
[/quote]
Thanks! It looks innocuous enough, doesn’t it? Now the saying, “the voice in the back of your head” has new meaning (: [/quote]
There seems to be a lot of interesting stuff going on lately in neurology, more and more focus on nailing down where everything is.
[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
This is the pic of the area mentioned in the article.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Neurorobotics reveals brain mechanisms of self-consciousness
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-04/cp-nrb042511.php[/quote]
[/quote]
Thanks! It looks innocuous enough, doesn’t it? Now the saying, “the voice in the back of your head” has new meaning (: [/quote]
There seems to be a lot of interesting stuff going on lately in neurology, more and more focus on nailing down where everything is.
[/quote]
These are interesting times, that’s for sure. However, it won’t answer the ultimate questions no one is able to answer except by believing in ancient goatherder myths.
Thankfully that doesn’t deter scientists though! Praise noodle!
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< If you’re going to be fucking rude to my friends, please leave the thread. I don’t need hostility when trying to have a logical argument. If you can’t hold your water, maybe you need to go study up on civil discourse.[/quote]Don’t need hostility? Then what is goin on with you today Chris. No need for all this vituperation. Geeeez. You’re not usually this uptight. Anything I can do? (I hope ya smile and calm down a bit)
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
I’ve got news for you: these questions are not going be resolved on a bodybuilding forum. The fact that I don’t have a phd in neuroscience and cannot explain the origin of human consciousness does not mean that your book of ancient fairy tales is correct. I can’t explain how a computer works either…doesn’t mean I think Jesus lives inside the shiny box and makes the internet pages appear with God-magic.
Look I try to be respectful most of the time but in the interest of honesty I’m going to be frank. You have the mentality and naivete of a child. You dedicate a a substantial amount of your time (and I’m going to assume money as well) to following and defending a primitive mythology.[/quote]
So you presuppose that G-d does not exist? And, no I have not wasted a minute of my time. I keep a very tight ship. Even if this was hocus pocus, how is learning something that influences so many people in the world a bad thing?
[/quote]
I actually do believe in God, in a way. I’m an agnostic who thinks that matter is best explained as being contingent upon an uncaused, non-contingent entity, which we call God. I actually find the notion of an infinite causal regress to be more far-fetched than the notion of a creator (though I admit that I cannot with certainty eschew any of the popular theories). However, I don’t believe that any of the world’s religions have anything to do with the true God, if it exists.
But I could be wrong. Which will probably be pretty bad for me, lol. Relatedly, your statement about hocus pocus brings up an interesting question for me: do you allow that your belief may be wholly incorrect? Do you ever worry that it is? And, if it were to turn out to be, would you regret having been devout?
[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
This is the pic of the area mentioned in the article.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Neurorobotics reveals brain mechanisms of self-consciousness
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-04/cp-nrb042511.php[/quote]
[/quote]
Thanks! It looks innocuous enough, doesn’t it? Now the saying, “the voice in the back of your head” has new meaning (: [/quote]
There seems to be a lot of interesting stuff going on lately in neurology, more and more focus on nailing down where everything is.
[/quote]
So do you believe that if you copy the electo-chemical reactions from one brain to another, that you could manifest the exact same thought, even if the second brain had no previous experience related to that thought?
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]HyperUppercut wrote:
- The guys in dresses and all of that make up, I guess you are referring to the catholic priests. Most of them draw attention to themselves, and I don’t agree with alot of the dogma of the catholics. As most of what they practice isn’t even in the Bible. I also find it sad that Catholicism is the face of Christianity to most of the world.[/quoter]
Where do the Bible come from?[/quote]
God who gave mostly Jews/Hebrews special revelation to write it. The church had a big part in canonization though.
[quote]HyperUppercut wrote:
- The guys in dresses and all of that make up, I guess you are referring to the catholic priests. Most of them draw attention to themselves, and I don’t agree with alot of the dogma of the catholics. As most of what they practice isn’t even in the Bible. I also find it sad that Catholicism is the face of Christianity to most of the world.
[/quote]
The church was before the Bible was…The church assembled the bible, Everything is scripturally based. Look it up.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]HyperUppercut wrote:
You are absolutely correct, you were created by God. But you are an enemy of God because of sin. As as for putting faith in Scientists or God. I’d rather put my faith in a God who doesn’t change. Rather than a scientist who screws up, but makes the sheep think their screw ups are progress. and go ahead and strike up a convo with a crocodile if you want. You’ll be finding out if God is real or not sooner thank you think.[/quote]
If you’re going to be fucking rude to my friends, please leave the thread. I don’t need hostility when trying to have a logical argument. If you can’t hold your water, maybe you need to go study up on civil discourse.[/quote]
Not being rude to anyone. Stop whining. And I don’t care who your friends are.
[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
In what way are any of these things contingent upon the existence of a God? The self? As in “me, not you”? In what way is that scientifically inexplicable?
More generally: the burden of proof lies with the theist, not the atheist. It is on you to prove that there is a God, not on me to prove that there isn’t. So it is on you to prove that God was responsible for these things, not on me to prove that He wasn’t. And you can’t do that.[/quote]
So you’re not going to explain how the conscious, language, and the self came about through natural evolution?
More generally: no it does not. Answer how the conscious, language, and the self came about through naturally. [/quote]
I’m not sure what you mean by language, all social animals communicate. Humans use language to communicate, wales use wale song.
Couldn’t evolution of the brain be where the self or conscious comes from?[/quote]
Well, next time they cut a skull in half please point out the self and conscious out to me. Or, since we’re on the internet shouldn’t be hard to find.
Are you saying complex language = wale song? As in you can read the language I am reading and that is the same thing as noise?[/quote]
I think it was Pat who called this a mind vs body question. If you believe that we were created by something(God) then it makes sense that language, the self, and the conscious would also need to just appear.
If, however, you believe that we have evolved then all these things(language, the self, the conscious) are as a result of the brain, throat, vocal chords, tongue, etc evolving.
If we can’t agree how we got here it is difficult to really argue/discuss this topic.
To other animals our language is nothing but noise. Wild cats do not meow like domesticated cats, some vets say they are just imitating us, making a bunch of noise.[/quote]
Are you saying that all that is real is only what can be sensed?
Mind/ body problem isn’t necessarily related to existence vs. non-existence of God.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]HyperUppercut wrote:
- The guys in dresses and all of that make up, I guess you are referring to the catholic priests. Most of them draw attention to themselves, and I don’t agree with alot of the dogma of the catholics. As most of what they practice isn’t even in the Bible. I also find it sad that Catholicism is the face of Christianity to most of the world.
[/quote]
The church was before the Bible was…The church assembled the bible, Everything is scripturally based. Look it up.
[/quote]
No. The scriptures have been around since the old testament. The Church did not start until the book of Acts. The Bible however was not complete until the church finalized which books would be in the finished version. Google as much as you want, or actually read the Bible to figure it out.