3 Reasons Why Theism is Wrong.

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]goldengloves wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

Not sure I agree.

Yes, the hundreds of Christian myths are no different than the hundreds of Hindu, Muslim, etc. myths that people subscribe to like children believing in Santa Claus.

However, that doesn’t mean there’s no utility in false beliefs. If it makes people want to treat one other with kindness, fairness, and respect, I’m not sure it’s such a bad thing.

Ideally people would have the moral maturity to do this anyway, without needing superstitious mumbo jumbo to motivate them. But not everyone is morally mature. Lacking that motivation, many would probably give in to addictions, violence, and selfishness.[/quote]

Motivation? I’m not so sure I agree with that. In my experiences people will act however they’re predisposed to act. [/quote]

Religious beliefs are part of that predisposition.

People find strength through their religious beliefs to overcome alcoholism, drug abuse, etc.

Of course, religious beliefs have also motivated people to commit some of the worst atrocities in the history of mankind.

I haven’t decided yet whether religion does more harm or more good in the grand scheme of things.

42

[quote]florelius wrote:
to BC`s question:

A lack explanetion does not = god exist.

A lack of explanetion = A lack of explanetion.[/quote]

Exactly.

43

[quote]florelius wrote:
to BC`s question:

A lack explanetion does not = god exist.

A lack of explanetion = A lack of explanetion.[/quote]

Don’t do that :slight_smile: PWI is home to fallacious arguments in all forms.

44
45

[quote]pat wrote:

Despite that it’s definatly, just as a piece of literature, a very interesting read. I’ll give the ancient hebrews one thing, they put it all down, the good, the bad and the ugly. So it’s an honest account.

[/quote]

Horseshit. They make huge claims about God destroying entire cities in the OT - yet in the NT, when they were held to factual standards, no such large claims exist.

Its easy to make up history when you can simply stone to death anyone who disagrees with your claims. In a society with record keepers, though, you have to keep your bullshit stories to smaller, personal claims which are impossible to disprove.

46

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
I’ve got news for you: these questions are not going be resolved on a bodybuilding forum. The fact that I don’t have a phd in neuroscience and cannot explain the origin of human consciousness does not mean that your book of ancient fairy tales is correct. I can’t explain how a computer works either…doesn’t mean I think Jesus lives inside the shiny box and makes the internet pages appear with God-magic.

Look I try to be respectful most of the time but in the interest of honesty I’m going to be frank. You have the mentality and naivete of a child. You dedicate a a substantial amount of your time (and I’m going to assume money as well) to following and defending a primitive mythology. A third-century middle-eastern shepherd can be excused for being stupid and needy enough to devote himself to Christianity (of Judaism or Islam or Zoroastrianism etc). An adult living in the industrialized West cannot. Biblical literalism is entirely dead. It has been killed a hundred million times over by centuries-worth of philosophers and scientists, all of whom are smarter than you. What does that leave you with? A book of metaphorical parables? In what way is that different from Aesop’s fables? Or Winnie the fucking Pooh?

Someone brought up the proof from cosmology. There is room for that kind of a discussion in the modern world–the great existential questions have not yet been answered (though they probably never will be). But stories in a book that was written by men thousands of years ago? Many of which are literally nothing more than recycled pagan fairy tales? If a supreme being is responsible for the existence of matter–and that is an unresolved philosophical question–how can you be so fucking arrogant to think that you know His most intimate wishes? What hubris men are capable of!

I sometimes hope that, for one instant just before your descent into the unending nothingness of death, you devout will realize that the storybook pearl gates of heaven do not and have not ever existed; that the philosophy with which you wasted your only single shot at existence is nothing more than a colossal sham; that gone forever are your miserable lives spent in exhausted devotion to the laughably anachronistic demands of a childish fairy-tale deity.

That is going to be one hell of a last thought.[/quote]

I get your thoughts…I happen to hold that book of fairy tales in high regard, but I know better then to beat an unbeleiver over the head with it. One has to believe in God before a book about God makes any sense…
Anyhow, the book isn’t recycled pagan stories, the similarities are purely coinsidental. Most of the OT is the story of the Jewish people. The rise and the fall. Now many of the old texts were passed by oral tradition, prior to writing them down. Therefore the grape-vine effect is in order.
Despite that it’s definatly, just as a piece of literature, a very interesting read. I’ll give the ancient hebrews one thing, they put it all down, the good, the bad and the ugly. So it’s an honest account.

BTW, nobody is a biblical literalist. Least of those who claim to be. Those who claim to be, only pick and choose what parts they want to take literally. Those parts they don’t like, are suddenly symbolic.[/quote]

Most of that story of the Jewish people is made up back story to justify later claims.

47

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]saveski wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
I’ve got news for you: these questions are not going be resolved on a bodybuilding forum. The fact that I don’t have a phd in neuroscience and cannot explain the origin of human consciousness does not mean that your book of ancient fairy tales is correct. I can’t explain how a computer works either…doesn’t mean I think Jesus lives inside the shiny box and makes the internet pages appear with God-magic.

Look I try to be respectful most of the time but in the interest of honesty I’m going to be frank. You have the mentality and naivete of a child. You dedicate a a substantial amount of your time (and I’m going to assume money as well) to following and defending a primitive mythology. A third-century middle-eastern shepherd can be excused for being stupid and needy enough to devote himself to Christianity (of Judaism or Islam or Zoroastrianism etc). An adult living in the industrialized West cannot. Biblical literalism is entirely dead. It has been killed a hundred million times over by centuries-worth of philosophers and scientists, all of whom are smarter than you. What does that leave you with? A book of metaphorical parables? In what way is that different from Aesop’s fables? Or Winnie the fucking Pooh?

Someone brought up the proof from cosmology. There is room for that kind of a discussion in the modern world–the great existential questions have not yet been answered (though they probably never will be). But stories in a book that was written by men thousands of years ago? Many of which are literally nothing more than recycled pagan fairy tales? If a supreme being is responsible for the existence of matter–and that is an unresolved philosophical question–how can you be so fucking arrogant to think that you know His most intimate wishes? What hubris men are capable of!

I sometimes hope that, for one instant just before your descent into the unending nothingness of death, you devout will realize that the storybook pearl gates of heaven do not and have not ever existed; that the philosophy with which you wasted your only single shot at existence is nothing more than a colossal sham; that gone forever are your miserable lives spent in exhausted devotion to the laughably anachronistic demands of a childish fairy-tale deity.

That is going to be one hell of a last thought.[/quote]

APPLAUSE - STANDING FUCKING OVATION - BRAVO!

Imagine if ALL the mystics on the planet just pulled their heads out of their asses and believed in reality and science. Imagine how wonderful and advanced we’d be.

As for the cosmological argument - astrophysicists have been just piling on the data about the big bang etc, yet the bible pushers still claim the big man in the clouds they call God somehow created it.
[/quote]

Not sure I agree.

Yes, the hundreds of Christian myths are no different than the hundreds of Hindu, Muslim, etc. myths that people subscribe to like children believing in Santa Claus.

However, that doesn’t mean there’s no utility in false beliefs. If it makes people want to treat one other with kindness, fairness, and respect, I’m not sure it’s such a bad thing.

Ideally people would have the moral maturity to do this anyway, without needing superstitious mumbo jumbo to motivate them. But not everyone is morally mature. Lacking that motivation, many would probably give in to addictions, violence, and selfishness.[/quote]

Respectfully I disagree. I think those people would find support from family, friends, bodybuilding forums, wherever. Relgion never caused anything good or bad, it is just a hook we hang things on.

48

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]goldengloves wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

Not sure I agree.

Yes, the hundreds of Christian myths are no different than the hundreds of Hindu, Muslim, etc. myths that people subscribe to like children believing in Santa Claus.

However, that doesn’t mean there’s no utility in false beliefs. If it makes people want to treat one other with kindness, fairness, and respect, I’m not sure it’s such a bad thing.

Ideally people would have the moral maturity to do this anyway, without needing superstitious mumbo jumbo to motivate them. But not everyone is morally mature. Lacking that motivation, many would probably give in to addictions, violence, and selfishness.[/quote]

Motivation? I’m not so sure I agree with that. In my experiences people will act however they’re predisposed to act. [/quote]

Religious beliefs are part of that predisposition.

People find strength through their religious beliefs to overcome alcoholism, drug abuse, etc.

Of course, religious beliefs have also motivated people to commit some of the worst atrocities in the history of mankind.

I haven’t decided yet whether religion does more harm or more good in the grand scheme of things.[/quote]

People can also overcome alcoholism and drug abuse without religious beliefs if there’s a desire to no longer be a substance abuser and a program to assist their recovery. Them having the beliefs doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re solely responsible either, being an alcoholic can have a broader impact on someone’s life than simply going against their faith.

49

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

Despite that it’s definatly, just as a piece of literature, a very interesting read. I’ll give the ancient hebrews one thing, they put it all down, the good, the bad and the ugly. So it’s an honest account.

[/quote]

Horseshit. They make huge claims about God destroying entire cities in the OT - yet in the NT, when they were held to factual standards, no such large claims exist.

Its easy to make up history when you can simply stone to death anyone who disagrees with your claims. In a society with record keepers, though, you have to keep your bullshit stories to smaller, personal claims which are impossible to disprove.
[/quote]

Ok so don’t read it…

50

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
I’ve got news for you: these questions are not going be resolved on a bodybuilding forum. The fact that I don’t have a phd in neuroscience and cannot explain the origin of human consciousness does not mean that your book of ancient fairy tales is correct. I can’t explain how a computer works either…doesn’t mean I think Jesus lives inside the shiny box and makes the internet pages appear with God-magic.

Look I try to be respectful most of the time but in the interest of honesty I’m going to be frank. You have the mentality and naivete of a child. You dedicate a a substantial amount of your time (and I’m going to assume money as well) to following and defending a primitive mythology. A third-century middle-eastern shepherd can be excused for being stupid and needy enough to devote himself to Christianity (of Judaism or Islam or Zoroastrianism etc). An adult living in the industrialized West cannot. Biblical literalism is entirely dead. It has been killed a hundred million times over by centuries-worth of philosophers and scientists, all of whom are smarter than you. What does that leave you with? A book of metaphorical parables? In what way is that different from Aesop’s fables? Or Winnie the fucking Pooh?

Someone brought up the proof from cosmology. There is room for that kind of a discussion in the modern world–the great existential questions have not yet been answered (though they probably never will be). But stories in a book that was written by men thousands of years ago? Many of which are literally nothing more than recycled pagan fairy tales? If a supreme being is responsible for the existence of matter–and that is an unresolved philosophical question–how can you be so fucking arrogant to think that you know His most intimate wishes? What hubris men are capable of!

I sometimes hope that, for one instant just before your descent into the unending nothingness of death, you devout will realize that the storybook pearl gates of heaven do not and have not ever existed; that the philosophy with which you wasted your only single shot at existence is nothing more than a colossal sham; that gone forever are your miserable lives spent in exhausted devotion to the laughably anachronistic demands of a childish fairy-tale deity.

That is going to be one hell of a last thought.[/quote]

I get your thoughts…I happen to hold that book of fairy tales in high regard, but I know better then to beat an unbeleiver over the head with it. One has to believe in God before a book about God makes any sense…
Anyhow, the book isn’t recycled pagan stories, the similarities are purely coinsidental. Most of the OT is the story of the Jewish people. The rise and the fall. Now many of the old texts were passed by oral tradition, prior to writing them down. Therefore the grape-vine effect is in order.
Despite that it’s definatly, just as a piece of literature, a very interesting read. I’ll give the ancient hebrews one thing, they put it all down, the good, the bad and the ugly. So it’s an honest account.

BTW, nobody is a biblical literalist. Least of those who claim to be. Those who claim to be, only pick and choose what parts they want to take literally. Those parts they don’t like, are suddenly symbolic.[/quote]

Most of that story of the Jewish people is made up back story to justify later claims.[/quote]

Proof?

51

I never said it’s impossible to deal with life’s challenges without religion, but it does provide strength, comfort, and direction for a lot of people. A mother losing her child to cancer can bear it easier if she believes they will be reunited in the next life.

Of course, religious beliefs can enable people to burn witches, stone gays, and prosecute wars too.

52

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Apparently I need your prayers Pat.[/quote]

I see, you you can dish it, lay all the false accusations you want with out fact. But when presented with a challenge, you just tuck tail and run? Only to reload for another aimless rambling about my ‘whore’?

Sorry, my whore can beat up your whore…

53

[quote]saveski wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I refuse to give up on you Chris. (or you either Pat) St. Thomas has left you guys naked and bleeding in a den of lions. You give them home advantage every time you do this.[/quote]

OK - please make me BELIEVE. I earnestly want to believe in God. YOU are going to heaven. I am not. Most of my good friends are believers and I wish to be enlightened also.

If you have the truth, please enlighten me as I want to know the truth. I don’t care to be ignorant. I want to see all my friends in heaven when I die.

But my rational brain (the one that God gave me) refuses to accept mysticism.

So, help me out.
[/quote]

No one can make you believe except an intervention from the Holy Spirit himself. This is something many atheist/agnostic/confused…etc people misconceive because they simply do not take time to even read the Bible. God will use your faith as a conduit to save you. Your faith comes by hearing the Word, which is why us believers are called to proclaim the Gospel. Some where hear and be saved, others will hear and harden their heart further or regard it as non-sense. So if you believe great, if you dont, well you will experience instant regret as soon as you die. Check out Luke 16 verses 19 -31. Sounds like you still have some hope Saveski as it seems like you want to be saved and see your friends who are believers once you pass.

54

[quote]HyperUppercut wrote:

[quote]saveski wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I refuse to give up on you Chris. (or you either Pat) St. Thomas has left you guys naked and bleeding in a den of lions. You give them home advantage every time you do this.[/quote]

OK - please make me BELIEVE. I earnestly want to believe in God. YOU are going to heaven. I am not. Most of my good friends are believers and I wish to be enlightened also.

If you have the truth, please enlighten me as I want to know the truth. I don’t care to be ignorant. I want to see all my friends in heaven when I die.

But my rational brain (the one that God gave me) refuses to accept mysticism.

So, help me out.
[/quote]

No one can make you believe except an intervention from the Holy Spirit himself. This is something many atheist/agnostic/confused…etc people misconceive because they simply do not take time to even read the Bible.[/quote]

You are right about one thing: reading the bible removes all confusion. Because it affirms so much that is undoubtedly known to not be. Because each of its worthless pages is more anachronistic and primitive than those before it. Because each fantastical story is more mind-numbingly ridiculous than the last. Because, as adult human beings with extensive access to information and the inborn ability to reason, we are expected to understand that ghosts, goblins, the tooth fairy, and talking snakes do not and have not ever existed save for in the minds of children and lunatics.

How could a smart human being be confused about it after all that? How can he or she do anything but laugh and wonder at the fact that millions of poor gullible needy simpletons give their hearts, their paychecks, and even their lives to these boisterous iniquitous clowns that we call the Abrahamic religions? How can anyone be confused when on one hand a scientist stands at the ready with mountains of empirical evidence and on the other an army of liver-spotted igors in dresses and medieval hats gather around an ancient book of fairy tales and pray to an eternally-silent invisible patron for guidance?

55

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]HyperUppercut wrote:

[quote]saveski wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I refuse to give up on you Chris. (or you either Pat) St. Thomas has left you guys naked and bleeding in a den of lions. You give them home advantage every time you do this.[/quote]

OK - please make me BELIEVE. I earnestly want to believe in God. YOU are going to heaven. I am not. Most of my good friends are believers and I wish to be enlightened also.

If you have the truth, please enlighten me as I want to know the truth. I don’t care to be ignorant. I want to see all my friends in heaven when I die.

But my rational brain (the one that God gave me) refuses to accept mysticism.

So, help me out.
[/quote]

No one can make you believe except an intervention from the Holy Spirit himself. This is something many atheist/agnostic/confused…etc people misconceive because they simply do not take time to even read the Bible.[/quote]

You are right about one thing: reading the bible removes all confusion. Because it affirms so much that is undoubtedly known to not be. Because each of its worthless pages is more anachronistic and primitive than those before it. Because each fantastical story is more mind-numbingly ridiculous than the last. Because, as adult human beings with extensive access to information and the inborn ability to reason, we are expected to understand that ghosts, goblins, the tooth fairy, and talking snakes do not and have not ever existed save for in the minds of children and lunatics.

How could a smart human being be confused about it after all that? How can he or she do anything but laugh and wonder at the fact that millions of poor gullible needy simpletons give their hearts, their paychecks, and even their lives to these boisterous iniquitous clowns that we call the Abrahamic religions? How can anyone be confused when on one hand a scientist stands at the ready with mountains of empirical evidence and on the other an army of liver-spotted igors in dresses and medieval hats gather around an ancient book of fairy tales and pray to an eternally-silent invisible patron for guidance?[/quote]

  1. The guys in dresses and all of that make up, I guess you are referring to the catholic priests. Most of them draw attention to themselves, and I don’t agree with alot of the dogma of the catholics. As most of what they practice isn’t even in the Bible. I also find it sad that Catholicism is the face of Christianity to most of the world.

  2. These so called smart scientists will tell you one thing, and then change their mind the next day. They spend their whole lives looking for evidence to deny God, just to die and find out He is realer than ever. Kind of funny you choose to put your faith in them also.

  3. If you choose not to believe that Jesus died as a substitute for you or for your sins, then that is on you. Have fun taking on that penalty by yourself. Your skewed view of self importance keeps you from realizing that you are in fact an enemy of God. So you don’t have to believe in the talking serpents, which actually translates to crocodiles in Hebrew. Nor believe any of the other miraculous stories of the Bible. But if you don’t believe Jesus is who he is, who God’s whole testimony is about, then there is nothing else to say to you. I don’t argue to try to make anyone believe, as it is impossible for one human to make another human believe in the Gospel.

56

[quote]HyperUppercut wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]HyperUppercut wrote:

[quote]saveski wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I refuse to give up on you Chris. (or you either Pat) St. Thomas has left you guys naked and bleeding in a den of lions. You give them home advantage every time you do this.[/quote]

OK - please make me BELIEVE. I earnestly want to believe in God. YOU are going to heaven. I am not. Most of my good friends are believers and I wish to be enlightened also.

If you have the truth, please enlighten me as I want to know the truth. I don’t care to be ignorant. I want to see all my friends in heaven when I die.

But my rational brain (the one that God gave me) refuses to accept mysticism.

So, help me out.
[/quote]

No one can make you believe except an intervention from the Holy Spirit himself. This is something many atheist/agnostic/confused…etc people misconceive because they simply do not take time to even read the Bible.[/quote]

You are right about one thing: reading the bible removes all confusion. Because it affirms so much that is undoubtedly known to not be. Because each of its worthless pages is more anachronistic and primitive than those before it. Because each fantastical story is more mind-numbingly ridiculous than the last. Because, as adult human beings with extensive access to information and the inborn ability to reason, we are expected to understand that ghosts, goblins, the tooth fairy, and talking snakes do not and have not ever existed save for in the minds of children and lunatics.

How could a smart human being be confused about it after all that? How can he or she do anything but laugh and wonder at the fact that millions of poor gullible needy simpletons give their hearts, their paychecks, and even their lives to these boisterous iniquitous clowns that we call the Abrahamic religions? How can anyone be confused when on one hand a scientist stands at the ready with mountains of empirical evidence and on the other an army of liver-spotted igors in dresses and medieval hats gather around an ancient book of fairy tales and pray to an eternally-silent invisible patron for guidance?[/quote]

  1. The guys in dresses and all of that make up, I guess you are referring to the catholic priests. Most of them draw attention to themselves, and I don’t agree with alot of the dogma of the catholics. As most of what they practice isn’t even in the Bible. I also find it sad that Catholicism is the face of Christianity to most of the world.

  2. These so called smart scientists will tell you one thing, and then change their mind the next day. They spend their whole lives looking for evidence to deny God, just to die and find out He is realer than ever. Kind of funny you choose to put your faith in them also.

  3. If you choose not to believe that Jesus died as a substitute for you or for your sins, then that is on you. Have fun taking on that penalty by yourself. Your skewed view of self importance keeps you from realizing that you are in fact an enemy of God. So you don’t have to believe in the talking serpents, which actually translates to crocodiles in Hebrew. Nor believe any of the other miraculous stories of the Bible. But if you don’t believe Jesus is who he is, who God’s whole testimony is about, then there is nothing else to say to you. I don’t argue to try to make anyone believe, as it is impossible for one human to make another human believe in the Gospel. [/quote]

Oh, it was a crocodile!!?? I had no idea. Shit, my bad man, talking snakes are ridiculous but a talking crocodile sounds plausible. Next time I’m by the Nile I will be sure to strike up a fucking conversation.

As for scientists changing their minds: that is called life on earth. We make mistakes. We jump to conclusions. We argue from false premises. I do not seek an institution free of error but rather an institution governed by those who believe that error must be corrected rather than clung to or covered up. It is the constant correction of human error that drives progress, not the absence of error itself.

As for me being the enemy of God: I was created by God (or so you believe) with the ability to reason. That ability precludes religiosity. If that makes me His enemy, then fuck Him.

57

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]HyperUppercut wrote:

[quote]saveski wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I refuse to give up on you Chris. (or you either Pat) St. Thomas has left you guys naked and bleeding in a den of lions. You give them home advantage every time you do this.[/quote]

OK - please make me BELIEVE. I earnestly want to believe in God. YOU are going to heaven. I am not. Most of my good friends are believers and I wish to be enlightened also.

If you have the truth, please enlighten me as I want to know the truth. I don’t care to be ignorant. I want to see all my friends in heaven when I die.

But my rational brain (the one that God gave me) refuses to accept mysticism.

So, help me out.
[/quote]

No one can make you believe except an intervention from the Holy Spirit himself. This is something many atheist/agnostic/confused…etc people misconceive because they simply do not take time to even read the Bible.[/quote]

You are right about one thing: reading the bible removes all confusion. Because it affirms so much that is undoubtedly known to not be. Because each of its worthless pages is more anachronistic and primitive than those before it. Because each fantastical story is more mind-numbingly ridiculous than the last. Because, as adult human beings with extensive access to information and the inborn ability to reason, we are expected to understand that ghosts, goblins, the tooth fairy, and talking snakes do not and have not ever existed save for in the minds of children and lunatics.

How could a smart human being be confused about it after all that? How can he or she do anything but laugh and wonder at the fact that millions of poor gullible needy simpletons give their hearts, their paychecks, and even their lives to these boisterous iniquitous clowns that we call the Abrahamic religions? How can anyone be confused when on one hand a scientist stands at the ready with mountains of empirical evidence and on the other an army of liver-spotted igors in dresses and medieval hats gather around an ancient book of fairy tales and pray to an eternally-silent invisible patron for guidance?[/quote]

Are you saying you’ve read it? Like the whole thing? Just curious…

58

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]HyperUppercut wrote:

[quote]saveski wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I refuse to give up on you Chris. (or you either Pat) St. Thomas has left you guys naked and bleeding in a den of lions. You give them home advantage every time you do this.[/quote]

OK - please make me BELIEVE. I earnestly want to believe in God. YOU are going to heaven. I am not. Most of my good friends are believers and I wish to be enlightened also.

If you have the truth, please enlighten me as I want to know the truth. I don’t care to be ignorant. I want to see all my friends in heaven when I die.

But my rational brain (the one that God gave me) refuses to accept mysticism.

So, help me out.
[/quote]

No one can make you believe except an intervention from the Holy Spirit himself. This is something many atheist/agnostic/confused…etc people misconceive because they simply do not take time to even read the Bible.[/quote]

You are right about one thing: reading the bible removes all confusion. Because it affirms so much that is undoubtedly known to not be. Because each of its worthless pages is more anachronistic and primitive than those before it. Because each fantastical story is more mind-numbingly ridiculous than the last. Because, as adult human beings with extensive access to information and the inborn ability to reason, we are expected to understand that ghosts, goblins, the tooth fairy, and talking snakes do not and have not ever existed save for in the minds of children and lunatics.

How could a smart human being be confused about it after all that? How can he or she do anything but laugh and wonder at the fact that millions of poor gullible needy simpletons give their hearts, their paychecks, and even their lives to these boisterous iniquitous clowns that we call the Abrahamic religions? How can anyone be confused when on one hand a scientist stands at the ready with mountains of empirical evidence and on the other an army of liver-spotted igors in dresses and medieval hats gather around an ancient book of fairy tales and pray to an eternally-silent invisible patron for guidance?[/quote]

Are you saying you’ve read it? Like the whole thing? Just curious…[/quote]

I’ve not sat down and read the Christian Bible in its entirety, no. I have completely read the Pentateuch and the canonical Gospels and am extremely familiar with various other selections. I’ve studied it in an academic setting but have never read the Bible as would a believer, or under the guidance of a believer. I was always either focused on historicity or philosophical plausibility.

59

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]HyperUppercut wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]HyperUppercut wrote:

[quote]saveski wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I refuse to give up on you Chris. (or you either Pat) St. Thomas has left you guys naked and bleeding in a den of lions. You give them home advantage every time you do this.[/quote]

OK - please make me BELIEVE. I earnestly want to believe in God. YOU are going to heaven. I am not. Most of my good friends are believers and I wish to be enlightened also.

If you have the truth, please enlighten me as I want to know the truth. I don’t care to be ignorant. I want to see all my friends in heaven when I die.

But my rational brain (the one that God gave me) refuses to accept mysticism.

So, help me out.
[/quote]

No one can make you believe except an intervention from the Holy Spirit himself. This is something many atheist/agnostic/confused…etc people misconceive because they simply do not take time to even read the Bible.[/quote]

You are right about one thing: reading the bible removes all confusion. Because it affirms so much that is undoubtedly known to not be. Because each of its worthless pages is more anachronistic and primitive than those before it. Because each fantastical story is more mind-numbingly ridiculous than the last. Because, as adult human beings with extensive access to information and the inborn ability to reason, we are expected to understand that ghosts, goblins, the tooth fairy, and talking snakes do not and have not ever existed save for in the minds of children and lunatics.

How could a smart human being be confused about it after all that? How can he or she do anything but laugh and wonder at the fact that millions of poor gullible needy simpletons give their hearts, their paychecks, and even their lives to these boisterous iniquitous clowns that we call the Abrahamic religions? How can anyone be confused when on one hand a scientist stands at the ready with mountains of empirical evidence and on the other an army of liver-spotted igors in dresses and medieval hats gather around an ancient book of fairy tales and pray to an eternally-silent invisible patron for guidance?[/quote]

  1. The guys in dresses and all of that make up, I guess you are referring to the catholic priests. Most of them draw attention to themselves, and I don’t agree with alot of the dogma of the catholics. As most of what they practice isn’t even in the Bible. I also find it sad that Catholicism is the face of Christianity to most of the world.

  2. These so called smart scientists will tell you one thing, and then change their mind the next day. They spend their whole lives looking for evidence to deny God, just to die and find out He is realer than ever. Kind of funny you choose to put your faith in them also.

  3. If you choose not to believe that Jesus died as a substitute for you or for your sins, then that is on you. Have fun taking on that penalty by yourself. Your skewed view of self importance keeps you from realizing that you are in fact an enemy of God. So you don’t have to believe in the talking serpents, which actually translates to crocodiles in Hebrew. Nor believe any of the other miraculous stories of the Bible. But if you don’t believe Jesus is who he is, who God’s whole testimony is about, then there is nothing else to say to you. I don’t argue to try to make anyone believe, as it is impossible for one human to make another human believe in the Gospel. [/quote]

Oh, it was a crocodile!!?? I had no idea. Shit, my bad man, talking snakes are ridiculous but a talking crocodile sounds plausible. Next time I’m by the Nile I will be sure to strike up a fucking conversation.

As for scientists changing their minds: that is called life on earth. We make mistakes. We jump to conclusions. We argue from false premises. I do not seek an institution free of error but rather an institution governed by those who believe that error must be corrected rather than clung to or covered up. It is the constant correction of human error that drives progress, not the absence of error itself.

As for me being the enemy of God: I was created by God (or so you believe) with the ability to reason. That ability precludes religiosity. If that makes me His enemy, then fuck Him.[/quote]

You are absolutely correct, you were created by God. But you are an enemy of God because of sin. As as for putting faith in Scientists or God. I’d rather put my faith in a God who doesn’t change. Rather than a scientist who screws up, but makes the sheep think their screw ups are progress. and go ahead and strike up a convo with a crocodile if you want. You’ll be finding out if God is real or not sooner thank you think.

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[quote]HyperUppercut wrote:

You are absolutely correct, you were created by God. But you are an enemy of God because of sin. As as for putting faith in Scientists or God. I’d rather put my faith in a God who doesn’t change. Rather than a scientist who screws up, but makes the sheep think their screw ups are progress. and go ahead and strike up a convo with a crocodile if you want. You’ll be finding out if God is real or not sooner thank you think.[/quote]

Next thing you’ll say is probably bow or burn.