3 Reasons Why Theism is Wrong.

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
After nearly 14,000 posts, can you [u]PROVE[/u] your stance with more than ‘It’s not a religion, no matter how much you cry and beg for it to be’?

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:<<< Religion and science are nothing alike, stop trying to drag science into the mud to wallow with religion.[/quote]The way it’s worshiped by people like you science IS a religion so stop trying to exalt it over the most high God who created both you and science,
[/quote]

We don’t pray on the altar of science and we know that it is fallible.

It’s not a religion, no matter how much you cry and beg for it to be.[/quote]
[/quote]

Science is all about proof. It doesn’t insist it knows everything, is open to changing based on evidence, and can back up its current claims with reliable evidence.

How about religion?

[quote]Makavali wrote:<<< We don’t pray on the altar of science >>>[/quote]Oh yes you do [quote]Makavali wrote:<<< and we know that it is fallible. >>>[/quote]And that makes no difference. You’ll believe anything that you can convince yourself provides escape from accountability to the true and living God. [quote]Makavali wrote:<<<It’s not a religion, no matter how much you cry and beg for it to be.[/quote]Attach whatever term you like to it. Worship by any other name is just as worshipful.

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

“Why we are here?” As an atheist: Big bang>stars died>planet formed>etc for me “why” kind of looks like “how”. Unless there really is a god then the “why” becomes “why did he/she/it create it/us”. So to me it looks like both “why” and “how” go together for both. I religion the god is the “how” in science the “how” is still being explored.
The “why” question would change if I believed god existed.

“Would observations of nature and its characteristics really shed much light on characteristics of the supernatural?” I do not assume that there is a supernatural.

[/quote]

Where’d the big bang come from?[/quote]

Where did God come from? Why are you still assuming time is linear? Your views are based around proving there is a God instead of actually being open to possibilities.[/quote]

I asked first. You or somebody else answer my question, then I will answer yours.

I am open to all kinds of stuff, I just prefer not to be wrong.

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
After nearly 14,000 posts, can you [u]PROVE[/u] your stance with more than ‘It’s not a religion, no matter how much you cry and beg for it to be’?

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:<<< Religion and science are nothing alike, stop trying to drag science into the mud to wallow with religion.[/quote]The way it’s worshiped by people like you science IS a religion so stop trying to exalt it over the most high God who created both you and science,
[/quote]

We don’t pray on the altar of science and we know that it is fallible.

It’s not a religion, no matter how much you cry and beg for it to be.[/quote]
[/quote]

Science is all about proof. It doesn’t insist it knows everything, is open to changing based on evidence, and can back up its current claims with reliable evidence.

How about religion?[/quote]

What does science prove?

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

“Why we are here?” As an atheist: Big bang>stars died>planet formed>etc for me “why” kind of looks like “how”. Unless there really is a god then the “why” becomes “why did he/she/it create it/us”. So to me it looks like both “why” and “how” go together for both. I religion the god is the “how” in science the “how” is still being explored.
The “why” question would change if I believed god existed.

“Would observations of nature and its characteristics really shed much light on characteristics of the supernatural?” I do not assume that there is a supernatural.

[/quote]

Where’d the big bang come from?[/quote]

Short answer is something from nothing, this is the answer given. Don’t ask me to explain it I haven’t even gotten around to really reading about it.

Both the big bang and god are ideas that I have difficulty understanding. Everything after the big bang is believable to me and almost none of the biblical stories are believable to me. God has not been proven to exist in a way I would believe he exists. There has been some evidence showing that there was a big bang. The big bang seems more likely, too me, than god.

Of course you could just read my above post.

<In science the “how” is still being explored.>

Can there not be things still needing to be explored and discovered and questions needing to be answered must we know RIGHT NOW how it all happened?
[/quote]

Oh hell fuck NO! You aren’t going to claim ‘something from nothing’ and then scurry away because you haven’t ‘read about it yet’. How can you claim something you know nothing about is real? Seriously…
Prove something from nothing…Now may be a good time to read up on it since this you belief.

Don’t you want to know what you believe or are you going to take such an absurd, logically impossible claim on pure faith? I thought you didn’t believe in taking things on faith?

Prove your something from nothing and I will show you why your wrong…I have read plenty on the matter, it’s an epic fail.

Interesting…
I did not want to start yet another religious thread, but I found this study interesting.

[quote]pat wrote:<<< NO! You aren’t going to claim ‘something from nothing’ and then scurry away because you haven’t ‘read about it yet’. How can you claim something you know nothing about is real? Seriously…
Prove something from nothing…Now may be a good time to read up on it since this you belief.

Don’t you want to know what you believe or are you going to take such an absurd, logically impossible claim on pure faith? I thought you didn’t believe in taking things on faith?

Prove your something from nothing and I will show you why your wrong…I have read plenty on the matter, it’s an epic fail.[/quote]I’m with ya on this one Pat. I almost commented myself with pretty much what you said. I’ll give the guy credit for honesty on a certain level though.

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

“Why we are here?” As an atheist: Big bang>stars died>planet formed>etc for me “why” kind of looks like “how”. Unless there really is a god then the “why” becomes “why did he/she/it create it/us”. So to me it looks like both “why” and “how” go together for both. I religion the god is the “how” in science the “how” is still being explored.
The “why” question would change if I believed god existed.

“Would observations of nature and its characteristics really shed much light on characteristics of the supernatural?” I do not assume that there is a supernatural.

[/quote]

Where’d the big bang come from?[/quote]

Short answer is something from nothing, this is the answer given. Don’t ask me to explain it I haven’t even gotten around to really reading about it.

Both the big bang and god are ideas that I have difficulty understanding. Everything after the big bang is believable to me and almost none of the biblical stories are believable to me. God has not been proven to exist in a way I would believe he exists. There has been some evidence showing that there was a big bang. The big bang seems more likely, too me, than god.

Of course you could just read my above post.

<In science the “how” is still being explored.>

Can there not be things still needing to be explored and discovered and questions needing to be answered must we know RIGHT NOW how it all happened?
[/quote]

Oh hell fuck NO! You aren’t going to claim ‘something from nothing’ and then scurry away because you haven’t ‘read about it yet’. How can you claim something you know nothing about is real? Seriously…
Prove something from nothing…Now may be a good time to read up on it since this you belief.

Don’t you want to know what you believe or are you going to take such an absurd, logically impossible claim on pure faith? I thought you didn’t believe in taking things on faith?

Prove your something from nothing and I will show you why your wrong…I have read plenty on the matter, it’s an epic fail.[/quote]

I said I don’t understand it(big bang) and I have read up on it and watched stuff on it and it still confuses me but I don’t believe in god. The not believing in god is constant, and will never change unless there is proof. There is no proof of god!

No one not you, the church, or the physicists have been able to explain how it(the beginning) happened so that I can understand it. NO ONE HAS. Which I have said over and over again.

The scientist have never said they know everything and I wouldn’t trust anyone(like a religion) that said they did.

edit* Out of curiosity where did god come from?

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

“Why we are here?” As an atheist: Big bang>stars died>planet formed>etc for me “why” kind of looks like “how”. Unless there really is a god then the “why” becomes “why did he/she/it create it/us”. So to me it looks like both “why” and “how” go together for both. I religion the god is the “how” in science the “how” is still being explored.
The “why” question would change if I believed god existed.

“Would observations of nature and its characteristics really shed much light on characteristics of the supernatural?” I do not assume that there is a supernatural.

[/quote]

Where’d the big bang come from?[/quote]

Short answer is something from nothing, this is the answer given. Don’t ask me to explain it I haven’t even gotten around to really reading about it.

Both the big bang and god are ideas that I have difficulty understanding. Everything after the big bang is believable to me and almost none of the biblical stories are believable to me. God has not been proven to exist in a way I would believe he exists. There has been some evidence showing that there was a big bang. The big bang seems more likely, too me, than god.

Of course you could just read my above post.

<In science the “how” is still being explored.>

Can there not be things still needing to be explored and discovered and questions needing to be answered must we know RIGHT NOW how it all happened?
[/quote]

Oh hell fuck NO! You aren’t going to claim ‘something from nothing’ and then scurry away because you haven’t ‘read about it yet’. How can you claim something you know nothing about is real? Seriously…
Prove something from nothing…Now may be a good time to read up on it since this you belief.

Don’t you want to know what you believe or are you going to take such an absurd, logically impossible claim on pure faith? I thought you didn’t believe in taking things on faith?

Prove your something from nothing and I will show you why your wrong…I have read plenty on the matter, it’s an epic fail.[/quote]

I said I don’t understand it(big bang) and I have read up on it and watched stuff on it and it still confuses me but I don’t believe in god. The not believing in god is constant, and will never change unless there is proof. There is no proof of god!

No one not you, the church, or the physicists have been able to explain how it(the beginning) happened so that I can understand it. NO ONE HAS. Which I have said over and over again.

The scientist have never said they know everything and I wouldn’t trust anyone(like a religion) that said they did.

edit* Out of curiosity where did god come from?[/quote]

Time to read up, because what you are doing is taking things on pure, blind faith…You don’t know how, where or why, but you know God didn’t do it? How, based on what your 5 senses tell you? Do they tell you everything there is to know?

By definition alone, God could not come from anything, if he did, he wouldn’t be God.
When you figure out the rest, you’ll figure out why this must be true. Whether you believe it or not is another matter.

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

“Why we are here?” As an atheist: Big bang>stars died>planet formed>etc for me “why” kind of looks like “how”. Unless there really is a god then the “why” becomes “why did he/she/it create it/us”. So to me it looks like both “why” and “how” go together for both. I religion the god is the “how” in science the “how” is still being explored.
The “why” question would change if I believed god existed.

“Would observations of nature and its characteristics really shed much light on characteristics of the supernatural?” I do not assume that there is a supernatural.

[/quote]

Where’d the big bang come from?[/quote]

Short answer is something from nothing, this is the answer given. Don’t ask me to explain it I haven’t even gotten around to really reading about it.

Both the big bang and god are ideas that I have difficulty understanding. Everything after the big bang is believable to me and almost none of the biblical stories are believable to me. God has not been proven to exist in a way I would believe he exists. There has been some evidence showing that there was a big bang. The big bang seems more likely, too me, than god.

Of course you could just read my above post.

<In science the “how” is still being explored.>

Can there not be things still needing to be explored and discovered and questions needing to be answered must we know RIGHT NOW how it all happened?
[/quote]

Oh hell fuck NO! You aren’t going to claim ‘something from nothing’ and then scurry away because you haven’t ‘read about it yet’. How can you claim something you know nothing about is real? Seriously…
Prove something from nothing…Now may be a good time to read up on it since this you belief.

Don’t you want to know what you believe or are you going to take such an absurd, logically impossible claim on pure faith? I thought you didn’t believe in taking things on faith?

Prove your something from nothing and I will show you why your wrong…I have read plenty on the matter, it’s an epic fail.[/quote]

I said I don’t understand it(big bang) and I have read up on it and watched stuff on it and it still confuses me but I don’t believe in god. The not believing in god is constant, and will never change unless there is proof. There is no proof of god!

No one not you, the church, or the physicists have been able to explain how it(the beginning) happened so that I can understand it. NO ONE HAS. Which I have said over and over again.

The scientist have never said they know everything and I wouldn’t trust anyone(like a religion) that said they did.

edit* Out of curiosity where did god come from?[/quote]

Time to read up, because what you are doing is taking things on pure, blind faith…You don’t know how, where or why, but you know God didn’t do it? How, based on what your 5 senses tell you? Do they tell you everything there is to know?

By definition alone, God could not come from anything, if he did, he wouldn’t be God.
When you figure out the rest, you’ll figure out why this must be true. Whether you believe it or not is another matter.
[/quote]

You are a lousy recruiter of your beliefs. I have said over and over again I don’t know and will not believe in anything without proof. I give the big band people the benefit of the doubt because they are trying to make it something I can understand but all you or any other god believer has ever done to convince me of god is to confuse me, make a fool of me, and dazzle me with bullshit.

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

You are a lousy recruiter of your beliefs. I have said over and over again I don’t know and will not believe in anything without proof. I give the big band people the benefit of the doubt because they are trying to make it something I can understand but all you or any other god believer has ever done to convince me of god is to confuse me, make a fool of me, and dazzle me with bullshit.
[/quote]

That would be true if I were trying to recruit anybody. I simply asked you to back up your beliefs. I to am a big fan of the big bang theory. Makes no difference because it’s still contingent on other things for it to be true.
I am not trying to make a fool of you, but if you make claims you cannot back up, then it’s your fault, not mine. I’ll call you out on them.
‘I don’t know’ is a strange thing to put your faith in…I’d suggest you get sure.

I promise I have never converted a single soul here. I think people should think about things and if you want in engage in religious debate, be prepared.

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

“Why we are here?” As an atheist: Big bang>stars died>planet formed>etc for me “why” kind of looks like “how”. Unless there really is a god then the “why” becomes “why did he/she/it create it/us”. So to me it looks like both “why” and “how” go together for both. I religion the god is the “how” in science the “how” is still being explored.
The “why” question would change if I believed god existed.

“Would observations of nature and its characteristics really shed much light on characteristics of the supernatural?” I do not assume that there is a supernatural.

[/quote]

Where’d the big bang come from?[/quote]

Where did God come from? Why are you still assuming time is linear? Your views are based around proving there is a God instead of actually being open to possibilities.[/quote]

G-d always existed.

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
something from nothing
[/quote]

…nothing comes.

It is a logical and philosophical incompatibility. The definition of nothing is there no thing, not space or time. Nothing can come from nothing.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

“Why we are here?” As an atheist: Big bang>stars died>planet formed>etc for me “why” kind of looks like “how”. Unless there really is a god then the “why” becomes “why did he/she/it create it/us”. So to me it looks like both “why” and “how” go together for both. I religion the god is the “how” in science the “how” is still being explored.
The “why” question would change if I believed god existed.

“Would observations of nature and its characteristics really shed much light on characteristics of the supernatural?” I do not assume that there is a supernatural.

[/quote]

Where’d the big bang come from?[/quote]

Where did God come from? Why are you still assuming time is linear? Your views are based around proving there is a God instead of actually being open to possibilities.[/quote]

G-d always existed.[/quote]

Yet somehow, it’s impossible that the universe, or an infinite string of universes has always existed.

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

“Why we are here?” As an atheist: Big bang>stars died>planet formed>etc for me “why” kind of looks like “how”. Unless there really is a god then the “why” becomes “why did he/she/it create it/us”. So to me it looks like both “why” and “how” go together for both. I religion the god is the “how” in science the “how” is still being explored.
The “why” question would change if I believed god existed.

“Would observations of nature and its characteristics really shed much light on characteristics of the supernatural?” I do not assume that there is a supernatural.

[/quote]

Where’d the big bang come from?[/quote]

Where did God come from? Why are you still assuming time is linear? Your views are based around proving there is a God instead of actually being open to possibilities.[/quote]

G-d always existed.[/quote]

Yet somehow, it’s impossible that the universe or an infinite string of universes has always existed.[/quote]

I suppose if you want to ignore 80 years or so of the hypothesis of the primeval atom. Or, the fact that an actual infinite is mathematically and logically impossible.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

“Why we are here?” As an atheist: Big bang>stars died>planet formed>etc for me “why” kind of looks like “how”. Unless there really is a god then the “why” becomes “why did he/she/it create it/us”. So to me it looks like both “why” and “how” go together for both. I religion the god is the “how” in science the “how” is still being explored.
The “why” question would change if I believed god existed.

“Would observations of nature and its characteristics really shed much light on characteristics of the supernatural?” I do not assume that there is a supernatural.

[/quote]

Where’d the big bang come from?[/quote]

Where did God come from? Why are you still assuming time is linear? Your views are based around proving there is a God instead of actually being open to possibilities.[/quote]

G-d always existed.[/quote]

Yet somehow, it’s impossible that the universe or an infinite string of universes has always existed.[/quote]

I suppose if you want to ignore 80 years or so of the hypothesis of the primeval atom. Or, the fact that an actual infinite is mathematically and logically impossible.[/quote]

Why are you assuming the atom is the smallest component of matter, and why are you ignoring energy?

And why are you saying an actual infinite is impossible, when you believe god is an actual infinite?

Show how one [infinity] is pertinent to the primeval atom.

Numbers are infinite chris, or you must mean something else by “an actual infinite”?

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

“Why we are here?” As an atheist: Big bang>stars died>planet formed>etc for me “why” kind of looks like “how”. Unless there really is a god then the “why” becomes “why did he/she/it create it/us”. So to me it looks like both “why” and “how” go together for both. I religion the god is the “how” in science the “how” is still being explored.
The “why” question would change if I believed god existed.

“Would observations of nature and its characteristics really shed much light on characteristics of the supernatural?” I do not assume that there is a supernatural.

[/quote]

Where’d the big bang come from?[/quote]

Where did God come from? Why are you still assuming time is linear? Your views are based around proving there is a God instead of actually being open to possibilities.[/quote]

G-d always existed.[/quote]

Yet somehow, it’s impossible that the universe or an infinite string of universes has always existed.[/quote]

I suppose if you want to ignore 80 years or so of the hypothesis of the primeval atom. Or, the fact that an actual infinite is mathematically and logically impossible.[/quote]

Why are you assuming the atom is the smallest component of matter, and why are you ignoring energy?

And why are you saying an actual infinite is impossible, when you believe god is an actual infinite?
[/quote]

Do you know what the hypothesis of the primeval atom is?

Because an actual infinite is impossible, G-d is eternal (outside of time) and immaterial, so in what structure is G-d infinite?

[quote]ephrem wrote:
Show how one [infinity] is pertinent to the primeval atom.

Numbers are infinite chris, or you must mean something else by “an actual infinite”?[/quote]

Really? Start counting at negative infinity at let us know when you get to zero.

Actual infinite…as in the universe is infinitely old, so if the world regresses infinitely…we would never actually be in the present. Let me explain more plainly.

If your aunt owns a flower shop, and she has to count all the flowers before she opens up the flower shop. Today she has 100 flowers in her shop and it takes her 1 second to count four flowers, so it takes her 25 seconds to open her flower shop. Tomorrow she will have a 1000 flowers to count. It will take her 4:10 to open the shop. Now, if she has a infinite number of flowers to count how long will it take her to open the flower shop.

That is difference between a possible infinite, as in the world will last infinitely, and an actual infinity, as in the world is infinitely old.

It doesn’t matter if i reached zero or not. Zero is just another number, and you can always add another number. Like pat you’re using semantics and logical dissonance to give creedence to your beliefs.